Anonymous wrote:So, I hate to be the turd in the punchbowl, but, I'd say his ONLY chances are Columbia in ED or Penn in RD. I would say the others are totally out. His EC are really weak. PLEASE, and I'm putting on my counselor hat here, PLEASE apply to more targets and safeties. "LOVE THY SAFETY" as I make parents repeat back to me. THe schools your son likes take kids with the best grades AND something very significant EC wise. What does your GC say? also, what were the stats of the past kids who got in from your son's school, including legacy and EC?

And I'll add that Tufts and WUSTL should maybe go in the Target column, I wouldn't call them safeties bc frankly, when they get the whiff that they are your kids 12th choice. They reject.

So, I hate to be the turd in the punchbowl, but, I'd say his ONLY chances are Columbia in ED or Penn in RD. I would say the others are totally out. His EC are really weak. PLEASE, and I'm putting on my counselor hat here, PLEASE apply to more targets and safeties. "LOVE THY SAFETY" as I make parents repeat back to me. THe schools your son likes take kids with the best grades AND something very significant EC wise. What does your GC say? also, what were the stats of the past kids who got in from your son's school, including legacy and EC?

I think pressuring him to apply ED as a legacy to a school that’s not top of his list will (unintentionally) send the message that you don’t think he can get into a great school on his own merits. And he’ll never know whether you were wrong because, unlike EA, he doesn’t get to apply elsewhere if accepted at Columbia. Really problematic way to start the transition to adulthood. And that’s the best case outcome in this scenario.

With his stats/background, he will get into an excellent college and do well. The professional stakes here are low. The personal/psychological/familial stakes are much higher.

"we give a sum in the low 5-figure range each year and we are very involved in the alumni community."

I count this as more than $100k cash and a similar amount by being involved. Certainly, DC qualifies for the legacy ED bump.

My suggestion is to let him apply ED to whichever school he wants to this year and then give him the option of an amazing, admissions centered, gap year and applying to Columbia ED next year rather than going to a match/safety.

I don't know what he wants to study but whatever subject it is if going Ivy is important in that field, it just might be worth a second shot once you know the lay of the admissions land.

This was EXACTLY us last year. Double legacy at Columbia with a decent history of giving and involvement on the alumni level. Ultimately you have to let your kid choose. It will seem sad but in the long run you and your kid will be happier if you let them decide their own fate. My parents were triple legacies (going back 2 generations) at Harvard but they smartly let me decide where to apply and put no pressure on me to follow in their footsteps.

Anonymous wrote:
OP here, sadly Columbia is not even his 3rd choice, which is surprising because both i and my husband have always spoken very highly of our experience there. Maybe he is just rebelling a bit...idk

Or he just prefers the others, having visited them and looked at what they offer. It doesn't have to be a rebellion against you. It just wasn't in the top five of the schools he visited and considered, in terms of fit for him.

As a fellow Lion, it is too bad that your son is not in love with Columbia too. But you have lots to be proud of! The folklore is that between a quarter and a half of Columbia legacy get in if they apply early decision. The alumni magazine prints the names of all legacy families every year. For the past few years, there have been only three double legacy admits a year as the children of the first coed classes get to college age. I would guess that the odds are not markably different for double legacy compared to single legacy. So keep in mind that most of us will have children who get rejected and there is nothing assured about getting them in unless your names are on top of the John Jay Society.

If his goal is Ivy I would go with Columbia ED. Recent top private experience with RD is abysmal even for tippy top kids. If your double legacy were any of the other schools, my answer would have been different. Columbia has sent the signal for years that legacy must commit early.

He will prbably get in to one of the other schools, so have him apply. Those are strong grades, sat, from a top private. If he has sat subject test or AP Scores in the highest range as well, all the better.

What does he want to study?

It's a little strange we have been talking about this for two pages and we don't know.

Anonymous wrote:Don’t make a kid ED to his or her 6th choice school. This isn’t hard.

+ one million.

Once he gets past his top five choices, could there really be that much difference between how happy he will be at schools 6 through 10?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t make a kid ED to his or her 6th choice school. This isn’t hard.

I know, i know. i am just concerned that his chances of making it to a top school will go down dramatically if the doesn't do ED. HYPS is a complete lottery ticket and RD is a crapshoot even for the rest of the top schools these days. But yes you are right, I should let him make his own decision.

Thanks for all the comments!

Can the counselor at your school give you a sense of the kids who've gotten into H & S (and for that matter the other schools he likes better than Columbia) previous years? For example at our school the counselor basically told our DS not to bother applying to MIT even though he had 4.0/1590 because he didn't have the ECs/hook they were looking for. But he told him a couple of Ivies that he'd have a decent shot at by applying early because he was similar enough to other kids who'd gotten in.

But you're right - if all he cares about is going to a top Ivy then he may be making a huge mistake by not applying ED to Columbia. So sad that college admissions have become such a strategic game.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's going to be fine. Let him do H or S -- it's delusional, probably -- but either way, he'll end up somewhere strong.

What's the safety?

Matches/Safeties are WUSTL, Gtown, Tufts, UCLA, BU, Northeastern.

The reaches and the safeties make it seem like you're grubby and status-obsessed.
Totally different vibes at all of these schools.

OP here. I hope you meant grabby instead of grubby...also why so judgmental? We have actually visited all of these schools and quite a few more and this is the list we came up with. Sure overall prestige as well as resources in his areas of interest were key considerations but he also vibed best with these schools. There were other reaches and safeties that he didn't like so we didn't consider those. Sure these schools do not have identical vibes but he could see himself studying in all of them. He is very well aware of the differences and he likes each for different reasons. But he is also a very competitive kid and prestige is a factor in his decision for sure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's going to be fine. Let him do H or S -- it's delusional, probably -- but either way, he'll end up somewhere strong.

What's the safety?

Matches/Safeties are WUSTL, Gtown, Tufts, UCLA, BU, Northeastern.

The reaches and the safeties make it seem like you're grubby and status-obsessed.
Totally different vibes at all of these schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Columbia was his 3rd choice behind H & S I'd say apply ED to Columbia. But since there are 3 other schools he likes better let him apply to H & S. He won't get in but that's better than not trying and going the rest of his life thinking he might have gotten in.

OP here, sadly Columbia is not even his 3rd choice, which is surprising because both i and my husband have always spoken very highly of our experience there. Maybe he is just rebelling a bit...idk
His list of reaches in order of preference is:

1.Harvard/Stanford
3.Yale
4.Princeton
5. Penn
6.Columbia
7.Brown

Why do you say that he definitely won't get in? I know he has nothing super extraordinary, but I thought with his top scores and good ECs there might be a chance.

I know a lot of double legacy Harvard and Princeton kids who did not get in - all top scorers and ECs