Anonymous wrote:The most damning thing about charters is that they have a built-in advantage. The families who apply for the lottery are more engaged and concerned about educational quality. The results should be better based on that fact alone, but the numbers don't show it.

But the shitty ones sign up anyone with a pulse -- thus, allowing nytimes to come in, cherry pick & declare it a failed experiment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The GOP is so short-sighted. We used to have a great public school system but the miserly GOP/Baby Boomers slowly dismantled it for the sake of a tax break at the State/Local level. I constantly hear about the Teachers' Union and school administrators being overpaid.... which is so strange because it doesn't seem like they're all living lux lives, right?! I missed that popular show, Real Educators of Beverly Hills.

WTF America!? When did you lose trust in our institutions and our citizens? When did it become a personal money grab?

Part of the problem is that people like you don't understand what you're talking about, PP. This is not a fight between Republicans and Dems. In fact, many prominent Dems promote charter schools (e.g., Cory Booker). Washington DC is run exclusively by Dems, but it has plenty of charter schools.

In Michigan it was a Republican governor who sold out. And now it is the Republican led Department of Education that is pushing it.

Yes, some Democrats promote charter schools. But they support highly regulated, non-profit charter schools, unlike the Republicans who are pushing this agenda.

Oh, I see. Republicans support the BAD charter schools, while Democrats only support the GOOD charter schools. Got it.

Well, do you or do you not agree that the for-profit charter schools have been a disaster in Michigan? Can you give an example of excellent for-profit charter schools in Michigan?

So not all charter schools are bad? Only the ones that don't have Dem support?

I don't know - you tell me. Name some that have given excellent results that are not supported by Democrats. I personally am not a charter school booster but happy to have my opinion changed if you show me they work.

Interesting. Does the article address Michigans changing demographics? Does it address the decades of decaying tax base as employers and young college educated kids left the state never to return. There are more factors at work in Michigan than just charter schools, though that's probably a step beyond what the Times can muster for journalistic integrity.

Detroit public schools are a mess and have been for years. They were not working. Charter schools may or may not be an improvement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The GOP is so short-sighted. We used to have a great public school system but the miserly GOP/Baby Boomers slowly dismantled it for the sake of a tax break at the State/Local level. I constantly hear about the Teachers' Union and school administrators being overpaid.... which is so strange because it doesn't seem like they're all living lux lives, right?! I missed that popular show, Real Educators of Beverly Hills.

WTF America!? When did you lose trust in our institutions and our citizens? When did it become a personal money grab?

Part of the problem is that people like you don't understand what you're talking about, PP. This is not a fight between Republicans and Dems. In fact, many prominent Dems promote charter schools (e.g., Cory Booker). Washington DC is run exclusively by Dems, but it has plenty of charter schools.

In Michigan it was a Republican governor who sold out. And now it is the Republican led Department of Education that is pushing it.

Yes, some Democrats promote charter schools. But they support highly regulated, non-profit charter schools, unlike the Republicans who are pushing this agenda.

Oh, I see. Republicans support the BAD charter schools, while Democrats only support the GOOD charter schools. Got it.

Well, do you or do you not agree that the for-profit charter schools have been a disaster in Michigan? Can you give an example of excellent for-profit charter schools in Michigan?

So not all charter schools are bad? Only the ones that don't have Dem support?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The GOP is so short-sighted. We used to have a great public school system but the miserly GOP/Baby Boomers slowly dismantled it for the sake of a tax break at the State/Local level. I constantly hear about the Teachers' Union and school administrators being overpaid.... which is so strange because it doesn't seem like they're all living lux lives, right?! I missed that popular show, Real Educators of Beverly Hills.

WTF America!? When did you lose trust in our institutions and our citizens? When did it become a personal money grab?

Part of the problem is that people like you don't understand what you're talking about, PP. This is not a fight between Republicans and Dems. In fact, many prominent Dems promote charter schools (e.g., Cory Booker). Washington DC is run exclusively by Dems, but it has plenty of charter schools.

In Michigan it was a Republican governor who sold out. And now it is the Republican led Department of Education that is pushing it.

Yes, some Democrats promote charter schools. But they support highly regulated, non-profit charter schools, unlike the Republicans who are pushing this agenda.

Oh, I see. Republicans support the BAD charter schools, while Democrats only support the GOOD charter schools. Got it.

Well, do you or do you not agree that the for-profit charter schools have been a disaster in Michigan? Can you give an example of excellent for-profit charter schools in Michigan?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The GOP is so short-sighted. We used to have a great public school system but the miserly GOP/Baby Boomers slowly dismantled it for the sake of a tax break at the State/Local level. I constantly hear about the Teachers' Union and school administrators being overpaid.... which is so strange because it doesn't seem like they're all living lux lives, right?! I missed that popular show, Real Educators of Beverly Hills.

WTF America!? When did you lose trust in our institutions and our citizens? When did it become a personal money grab?

Part of the problem is that people like you don't understand what you're talking about, PP. This is not a fight between Republicans and Dems. In fact, many prominent Dems promote charter schools (e.g., Cory Booker). Washington DC is run exclusively by Dems, but it has plenty of charter schools.

In Michigan it was a Republican governor who sold out. And now it is the Republican led Department of Education that is pushing it.

Yes, some Democrats promote charter schools. But they support highly regulated, non-profit charter schools, unlike the Republicans who are pushing this agenda.

Oh, I see. Republicans support the BAD charter schools, while Democrats only support the GOOD charter schools. Got it.

That tends to be how it works out. Republicans are in support of free markets, less regulation in education, which is for profit charters. Dems support tight regulation and non-profits. In fact, unregulated, for profit charter schools are usually bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The GOP is so short-sighted. We used to have a great public school system but the miserly GOP/Baby Boomers slowly dismantled it for the sake of a tax break at the State/Local level. I constantly hear about the Teachers' Union and school administrators being overpaid.... which is so strange because it doesn't seem like they're all living lux lives, right?! I missed that popular show, Real Educators of Beverly Hills.

WTF America!? When did you lose trust in our institutions and our citizens? When did it become a personal money grab?

Part of the problem is that people like you don't understand what you're talking about, PP. This is not a fight between Republicans and Dems. In fact, many prominent Dems promote charter schools (e.g., Cory Booker). Washington DC is run exclusively by Dems, but it has plenty of charter schools.

In Michigan it was a Republican governor who sold out. And now it is the Republican led Department of Education that is pushing it.

Yes, some Democrats promote charter schools. But they support highly regulated, non-profit charter schools, unlike the Republicans who are pushing this agenda.

Oh, I see. Republicans support the BAD charter schools, while Democrats only support the GOOD charter schools. Got it.

Anonymous wrote:The GOP is so short-sighted. We used to have a great public school system but the miserly GOP/Baby Boomers slowly dismantled it for the sake of a tax break at the State/Local level. I constantly hear about the Teachers' Union and school administrators being overpaid.... which is so strange because it doesn't seem like they're all living lux lives, right?! I missed that popular show, Real Educators of Beverly Hills.

WTF America!? When did you lose trust in our institutions and our citizens? When did it become a personal money grab?

This is not only a Republican/Democrat issue...nor is it solely about greed. The transfer of public education to local control was a response to school integration. We never have really had a national policy to integrate residential neighborhoods, so by transferring more and more control to local school districts you could ensure the rich (and predominately white) neighborhoods got excellent schooling while the poorer ones did not. Remedies to this de facto segregation via bussing have been less common and in certain ways more controversial as Americans delude themselves into thinking the fact of the Obama presidency means we are no longer a racist country.

Much of the dismantling of the strong Federal state is really about "States Rights", just in a different form.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The GOP is so short-sighted. We used to have a great public school system but the miserly GOP/Baby Boomers slowly dismantled it for the sake of a tax break at the State/Local level. I constantly hear about the Teachers' Union and school administrators being overpaid.... which is so strange because it doesn't seem like they're all living lux lives, right?! I missed that popular show, Real Educators of Beverly Hills.

WTF America!? When did you lose trust in our institutions and our citizens? When did it become a personal money grab?

Part of the problem is that people like you don't understand what you're talking about, PP. This is not a fight between Republicans and Dems. In fact, many prominent Dems promote charter schools (e.g., Cory Booker). Washington DC is run exclusively by Dems, but it has plenty of charter schools.

In Michigan it was a Republican governor who sold out. And now it is the Republican led Department of Education that is pushing it.

Yes, some Democrats promote charter schools. But they support highly regulated, non-profit charter schools, unlike the Republicans who are pushing this agenda.

Anonymous wrote:The GOP is so short-sighted. We used to have a great public school system but the miserly GOP/Baby Boomers slowly dismantled it for the sake of a tax break at the State/Local level. I constantly hear about the Teachers' Union and school administrators being overpaid.... which is so strange because it doesn't seem like they're all living lux lives, right?! I missed that popular show, Real Educators of Beverly Hills.

WTF America!? When did you lose trust in our institutions and our citizens? When did it become a personal money grab?

Part of the problem is that people like you don't understand what you're talking about, PP. This is not a fight between Republicans and Dems. In fact, many prominent Dems promote charter schools (e.g., Cory Booker). Washington DC is run exclusively by Dems, but it has plenty of charter schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a shame using "market principles" to educate children. It's too late to just choose a "better" school when you discover your child's charter school was sub-par years later. Too late by then. Children should also not be subject to CEO and shareholder worries about profitability.

I am more concerned that the free market does not provide enough commitment. Public schools are accountable forever. A private company can try some things, fail, and just fold. I suppose after 100 years or so of schools failing, maybe you are left with good ones with a lot of history. Maybe. Then again they can get bought out and be ruined.

Public schools aren't accountable, that's the problem.

They are accountable to the parents of students and also during school board elections.

They're directly accountable to public officials, FFS!

Yes, thought that was too obvious. Public officials are elected so if they are the other party; it is dismissed as part of the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a shame using "market principles" to educate children. It's too late to just choose a "better" school when you discover your child's charter school was sub-par years later. Too late by then. Children should also not be subject to CEO and shareholder worries about profitability.

I am more concerned that the free market does not provide enough commitment. Public schools are accountable forever. A private company can try some things, fail, and just fold. I suppose after 100 years or so of schools failing, maybe you are left with good ones with a lot of history. Maybe. Then again they can get bought out and be ruined.

Public schools aren't accountable, that's the problem.

They are accountable to the parents of students and also during school board elections.

They're directly accountable to public officials, FFS!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a shame using "market principles" to educate children. It's too late to just choose a "better" school when you discover your child's charter school was sub-par years later. Too late by then. Children should also not be subject to CEO and shareholder worries about profitability.

I am more concerned that the free market does not provide enough commitment. Public schools are accountable forever. A private company can try some things, fail, and just fold. I suppose after 100 years or so of schools failing, maybe you are left with good ones with a lot of history. Maybe. Then again they can get bought out and be ruined.

Public schools aren't accountable, that's the problem.

They are accountable to the parents of students and also during school board elections.

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, Michigans education system was stellar before...

She's been in charge for a few months at most. Let's see how this really affects the system instead of automatic reaction because ots Trump.

Sure, it wasn't stellar. It was "fairly average." And after a decade of the DeVos family and GOP monkeying around trying to make a profit off the public education system, it has fallen to the bottom.

I think a decade with disastrous results is plenty long for us to see "how this really affects the system" - in other words, her ideas suck.