Anonymous wrote:

We have been saving in 529 - we started only a couple of years ago (didn't have the ability before then) and our kids are 13 and 10 now. You don't mention if you have more than one child, but one factor in favor of 529 plan is that if you don't use the $ for one child, it can be used for the other. Also, I believe it can be used for any qualified educational expenses, so that includes grad school (and possibly private high school). We are not saving beyond the cost of attendance of our instate flagship (UMD).

No, you cannot pay for private high school (or elementary school, for that matter) using a 529. You can use a Coverdell account for that, but can't put nearly as much $$ into a Coverdell.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the responses. I am also wondering why more parents, even those without passports or family in other countries, do not consider university abroad given the astronomical costs of American universities, even factoring in extra flight costs for foreign schools. Is it because people are just more comfortable having kids close? Because US universities are better (not saying that is true)?

Well, my husband studied abroad, met a nice girl, and settled down with me 9600 miles from his home. His mom wasn't thrilled.

Some training is country specific.

We are Brits living in MD. We are considering Canada and UK universities, Trinity college Dublin and Turin, Italy. Perhaps also the Sorbonne because our kids speak French. If you are going to branch out that far, it has to be for the absolute best universities you can get. My DH went to Oxford, I went to Cambridge.

OP, back to your original question (if you are still around, I realize this thread was started almost a month ago), we are a family considering the very same question. DH is Dutch, kids have dual nationality.

We have been saving in 529 - we started only a couple of years ago (didn't have the ability before then) and our kids are 13 and 10 now. You don't mention if you have more than one child, but one factor in favor of 529 plan is that if you don't use the $ for one child, it can be used for the other. Also, I believe it can be used for any qualified educational expenses, so that includes grad school (and possibly private high school). We are not saving beyond the cost of attendance of our instate flagship (UMD).

Our thinking is that if our older child ends up studying overseas at an "unqualified" school (where we can't use 529 funds without penalty), he most likely would return to US for a grad degree (or otherwise do a grade degree outside the US at a "qualified" school where we can use the 529 funds). (From what I can tell, there's doesn't seem to be a whole lot of rhyme or reason as to which schools are "qualified" - many in UK seem to be; it used to be that the university colleges in the Netherlands were (but they now mostly seem not to be); and it keeps changing.) And if the older kid doesn't use his 529 funds, we could use them for the younger kid.

We have figured out that attending college in the Netherlands would be cheaper than UMD (we are in state). Unlike some countries, at least for now Netherlands treats its nationals alike, whether they are resident or non-resident. So that means our kids would pay regular Dutch/EU tuition (not the higher international tuition). Even factoring in travel, still ends up being significantly cheaper than in-state at UMD. It is even possible to get a us-style liberal arts education in English in the Netherlands now, with the advent of the "university colleges" (Utrecht, Roosevelt, Groningen, Leiden-Hague, Maastricht, Amsterdam all have these honors programs now).

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the responses. I am also wondering why more parents, even those without passports or family in other countries, do not consider university abroad given the astronomical costs of American universities, even factoring in extra flight costs for foreign schools. Is it because people are just more comfortable having kids close? Because US universities are better (not saying that is true)?

Too complicated If Europe, not that much difference in price if Canada.

European and Canadian universities have different systems as previously noted.

In the UK, students specialize in their final years of what we could consider high school. They also attend for a year longer. A levels prepare students for their final exams, the scores of which determine the universities they can attend. (This is a bit of a simplification, but is essentially the essence of the process.)

As for writing, more time could be invested in instruction. I've known brilliant Cambridge graduates with lousy punctuation in part because much of their university education and assessment is oral.

That said, it is generally difficult for students educated in the U.S. to be able to pass the exams for Oxbridge undergrad. simply because the systems as well as the exams are so different. (Likewise, the SAT tends not to be easy for Brits unless they take prep. courses.) The British system is far more specialized and tends to go much deeper into subject. Exams are also fall less frequent and thus extremely consequential in determining one's fate. As noted, undergrad lasts for three year. The U.S. systems covers a broader range of topics at both the high school and university level with graduate school being the venue for greater specialization.

The exception is Scottish universities as they are also four-year programs. (St. Andrews, Edinborough, etc.)

European universities usually require IB for entrance.

McGill in Canada is also a good option to consider for a cheaper alternative.

This article is also interesting about Germany, in particular

https://www.topuniversities.com/blog/student-life-germany

University College Utrecht, elite school with an American type of college experience

This article seems like a good summary

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/education/edlife/a-guide-to-getting-a-bachelors-abroad.html

Drinking happens - just not so much binge drinking (at least not in Germany, which I am most familiar with). People will think you are unstable if you drink until you puke in Germany ...

Anonymous wrote:Yes, considering uk.

Think very carefully about the impact of Brexit.

German here. YOu can't get into a German university with a US high school diploma. You need the Abitur, or at least an IB and German language skills. Or to go to a private university there, which defeats the purpose.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am suspecting that OP was not meaning college in England. There is still tuition there ... and room and board - I am not sure that with the travel costs, there is much savings. Germany has basically no tuition cost, just living cost, and it's more like shared flats, so

But the atmosphere is very different. In some ways good, in other ways perhaps not. Basically, kids in Europe know what they want to specialize in and I have heard the education as going deeper in the chosen subject ... not broadly into various subjects, as at a liberal arts college. So - if you want to be an engineer, it could be great - you won't have to take arts or history credits to graduate and can just focus on the science classes (more like a graduate school in the US). But a student who really doesn't know what they want to major in may not get a chance to get a general education before deciding ... including because another difference is that European universities expect students to guide their own studies. There are not layers of counselors/administrators who look out for the students in the same way as in the US. The students are expected to know the requirements, sign up for the right classes, and generally to figure things out on their own. Similarly, there are typically not school teams, school spirit rallies, fraternities, or even dorms. It really is more like grad school. You need to be prepared to find your own housing, make your own schedule, pay your own living bills, get your own meals, etc.

The good side of this, IMO as a parent, is that there is no school party culture. European college students don't have crazy parties during the school year (though they may go to Mallorca or such on breaks, kind of like Spring Break in the US). But they don't have keg parties, frat parties, or a heavy drinking/drug culture. They all can drink (from about age 16), but the context of drinking is more like going out for a few beers and listening to music or talking. And the prevalent culture around sex is that it is less taboo - so basically once Germans are university age, it's not something they are not familiar with. As a result, I would say that what does not happen in Germany is there are not a lot of students who suddenly feel free and overact as a result.

The downside as someone who once was not a parent -- there's no school culture. You will learn and work hard. You should probably be pretty fluent in German. You might have a hard time making friends. You won't get the US college experience of forever and always wearing Duke blue or what have you ...

Just a really different kind of experience. Probably only a very mature US high school student is capable of making this decision...

http://www.dw.com/en/10-things-to-know-before-studying-in-germany/a-18210563

https://redditblog.com/2016/02/16/is-germanys-free-college-education-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/

Ummmm..... this is probably different in different countries, but I went to college in Ireland and this is definitely NOT the case there. And, given the drinking age, every person I knew went clubbing nearly every Thursday night.

+1 St Andrews poster from the previous post. PP is right in that there's not so much a "get drunk in a frat house basement" culture, but there most certainly is PLENTY of partying, drugs, booze, sex, etc. It just happens at clubs and bars, etc. rather than at the Sigma Chi house. Also, I wish we could put the "Europeans don't binge drink or go crazy because it's not taboo!!!" myth to rest at once.

I think the biggest difference I saw attending college in Europe (University of St Andrews in Scotland) and now going thru the college process with my kids here in the US is that European universities assume that your kid already knows how to write, research, think critically, etc., that those skills were emphasized in the primary and secondary school curriculum, and that students don't need to spend a lot of time on the general education type classes to acquire them. So, instead, students tend to jump right into the classes that pertain to their major/what they want to do with their life as opposed to spending the first year or two taking gen eds. For some kids, this is great. For others, it's not. I think it takes a certain kind of kid, the kind who knows what they want in terms of a major/career, to succeed.

Anonymous wrote:I am suspecting that OP was not meaning college in England. There is still tuition there ... and room and board - I am not sure that with the travel costs, there is much savings. Germany has basically no tuition cost, just living cost, and it's more like shared flats, so

But the atmosphere is very different. In some ways good, in other ways perhaps not. Basically, kids in Europe know what they want to specialize in and I have heard the education as going deeper in the chosen subject ... not broadly into various subjects, as at a liberal arts college. So - if you want to be an engineer, it could be great - you won't have to take arts or history credits to graduate and can just focus on the science classes (more like a graduate school in the US). But a student who really doesn't know what they want to major in may not get a chance to get a general education before deciding ... including because another difference is that European universities expect students to guide their own studies. There are not layers of counselors/administrators who look out for the students in the same way as in the US. The students are expected to know the requirements, sign up for the right classes, and generally to figure things out on their own. Similarly, there are typically not school teams, school spirit rallies, fraternities, or even dorms. It really is more like grad school. You need to be prepared to find your own housing, make your own schedule, pay your own living bills, get your own meals, etc.

The good side of this, IMO as a parent, is that there is no school party culture. European college students don't have crazy parties during the school year (though they may go to Mallorca or such on breaks, kind of like Spring Break in the US). But they don't have keg parties, frat parties, or a heavy drinking/drug culture. They all can drink (from about age 16), but the context of drinking is more like going out for a few beers and listening to music or talking. And the prevalent culture around sex is that it is less taboo - so basically once Germans are university age, it's not something they are not familiar with. As a result, I would say that what does not happen in Germany is there are not a lot of students who suddenly feel free and overact as a result.

The downside as someone who once was not a parent -- there's no school culture. You will learn and work hard. You should probably be pretty fluent in German. You might have a hard time making friends. You won't get the US college experience of forever and always wearing Duke blue or what have you ...

Just a really different kind of experience. Probably only a very mature US high school student is capable of making this decision...

http://www.dw.com/en/10-things-to-know-before-studying-in-germany/a-18210563

https://redditblog.com/2016/02/16/is-germanys-free-college-education-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/

Ummmm..... this is probably different in different countries, but I went to college in Ireland and this is definitely NOT the case there. And, given the drinking age, every person I knew went clubbing nearly every Thursday night.

I am suspecting that OP was not meaning college in England. There is still tuition there ... and room and board - I am not sure that with the travel costs, there is much savings. Germany has basically no tuition cost, just living cost, and it's more like shared flats, so

But the atmosphere is very different. In some ways good, in other ways perhaps not. Basically, kids in Europe know what they want to specialize in and I have heard the education as going deeper in the chosen subject ... not broadly into various subjects, as at a liberal arts college. So - if you want to be an engineer, it could be great - you won't have to take arts or history credits to graduate and can just focus on the science classes (more like a graduate school in the US). But a student who really doesn't know what they want to major in may not get a chance to get a general education before deciding ... including because another difference is that European universities expect students to guide their own studies. There are not layers of counselors/administrators who look out for the students in the same way as in the US. The students are expected to know the requirements, sign up for the right classes, and generally to figure things out on their own. Similarly, there are typically not school teams, school spirit rallies, fraternities, or even dorms. It really is more like grad school. You need to be prepared to find your own housing, make your own schedule, pay your own living bills, get your own meals, etc.

The good side of this, IMO as a parent, is that there is no school party culture. European college students don't have crazy parties during the school year (though they may go to Mallorca or such on breaks, kind of like Spring Break in the US). But they don't have keg parties, frat parties, or a heavy drinking/drug culture. They all can drink (from about age 16), but the context of drinking is more like going out for a few beers and listening to music or talking. And the prevalent culture around sex is that it is less taboo - so basically once Germans are university age, it's not something they are not familiar with. As a result, I would say that what does not happen in Germany is there are not a lot of students who suddenly feel free and overact as a result.

The downside as someone who once was not a parent -- there's no school culture. You will learn and work hard. You should probably be pretty fluent in German. You might have a hard time making friends. You won't get the US college experience of forever and always wearing Duke blue or what have you ...

Just a really different kind of experience. Probably only a very mature US high school student is capable of making this decision...

http://www.dw.com/en/10-things-to-know-before-studying-in-germany/a-18210563

https://redditblog.com/2016/02/16/is-germanys-free-college-education-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/