Anonymous wrote:This is pretty typical dad behavior, which is why I'm increasingly an advocate for SAHMs even though I wasn't one myself. Working TWO jobs isn't a great advance for women. You can't change someone else. If men want kids but don't want to raise them then they should provide the income.

Nope.

This is pretty typical dad behavior, which is why I'm increasingly an advocate for SAHMs even though I wasn't one myself. Working TWO jobs isn't a great advance for women. You can't change someone else. If men want kids but don't want to raise them then they should provide the income.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, I would disagree that he turned out fine, but that's not your question.

Have you tried couples' counseling? You don't have to commit to a year or anything, just enough so that he understands your point of view and possibly unearths why he's checked out of his family.

Op here, I disagree too about him turning out fine, but it's hard to argue with someone when they stubbornly think that. I will look into it, although he's one of those types that thinks counseling and anything mental health related is "pointless and dumb".

UGGGHHH OP, I can relate to all of this. Especially the part about mental health stuff being dumb. But as my therapist pointed out, she sees lots of men who only started because their wives made them. Who cares why he goes? Get him there. Once he's there he will realize it's simply a place where you can both talk without the baggage of the other getting defensive.

Your husband actually seems worse than mine with the helplessness, but mine can be mean when he feels criticized, so the situation isn't much better. I hit a breaking point and had a come to jesus talk to with him. Then another, then another. I kept circling back to how I was no longer happy in our house. It took a while, but I think it finally hit home with him when our 4 year old said something about how "daddy was always mad at him." I was very clear with him and just kept asking wtf else mattered. Like, if his wife and child are unhappy, what else matters? This is it and he's blowing it. He's nowhere near perfect, but he shaped up after that.

I definitely don't have all the answers, but I can commiserate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the missing link here is that he doesn't agree with you about what is required to be a parent. He thinks he is parenting. He doesn't agree that your kids need a different kind of parent and yes that's probably because of how he was raised. You can nag and ask and leave him home with the kids and if he doesn't agree with you, he's going to keep doing it his way.

The first and critical step is seeing if he's going to change his mind on what it means to be a parent. If he's not going to, then what are you going to do? I see two choices. You just accept it and move on or you leave him. Except in scenario 2, he'll have your kids alone sometimes and parent the way he is currently parenting.

I find it hard to believe that a "parent" like this won't simply give up his custody rights and let the mom have sole custody.

Very true, although I'm sure he'd get some weekends.

Don't forget if he gives up primary custody, he has to pay a lot of child support. So in those cases, a lot of loser dads would rather take their share of childcare and just do a shitty job of it.

Anonymous wrote:I think the missing link here is that he doesn't agree with you about what is required to be a parent. He thinks he is parenting. He doesn't agree that your kids need a different kind of parent and yes that's probably because of how he was raised. You can nag and ask and leave him home with the kids and if he doesn't agree with you, he's going to keep doing it his way.

The first and critical step is seeing if he's going to change his mind on what it means to be a parent. If he's not going to, then what are you going to do? I see two choices. You just accept it and move on or you leave him. Except in scenario 2, he'll have your kids alone sometimes and parent the way he is currently parenting.

+1

This is the most realistic response to this.

He hasn't "checked out" - he is parenting how HE was parented. You have to look at how he was raised, and if he has a problem with it.

And to be honest, if I wanted to go out once a month and came home to find out the kids ate Cheetos...so what? You control every other meal of the month - no one died from a monthly serving of Cheetos. When my DH wasn't great at putting our kids to bed, I let him deal with the fallout. It only took a few times. So when you come home, and they are still up waiting for you - let him do it. Figure out what is related to how he was raised (lots of TV, etc) and the learned helplessness (bedtime) and address it accordingly.

OP You are almost as much to blame as he. You've allowed him to check out. You've allowed him to miss everything and not know how to do things. Write out a list and head out to dinner. He and the kids will survive.

Anonymous wrote:I think the missing link here is that he doesn't agree with you about what is required to be a parent. He thinks he is parenting. He doesn't agree that your kids need a different kind of parent and yes that's probably because of how he was raised. You can nag and ask and leave him home with the kids and if he doesn't agree with you, he's going to keep doing it his way.

The first and critical step is seeing if he's going to change his mind on what it means to be a parent. If he's not going to, then what are you going to do? I see two choices. You just accept it and move on or you leave him. Except in scenario 2, he'll have your kids alone sometimes and parent the way he is currently parenting.

I find it hard to believe that a "parent" like this won't simply give up his custody rights and let the mom have sole custody.

Really feel for the OP and others who are struggling with this issue. I was worried that this dynamic was emerging when we had our DC and what seemed to do the trick was having (a few) come to Jesus conversations about how his attitude was affecting my view of him, and consequently my investment in our relationship. For me, the natural outcome would be either, wanting to get divorced or if I stayed in the marriage, just not having any relationship with him. This got through because prior to having kids, DH and I have been each other's best friends. I think he realized not only would he not have a great relationship with the kid, but the relationship he had with me would evaporate. That, and we wouldn't have any other kids. Curious what led OP to have DC2 if DH wasn't stepping up when there was just one, but she can at least throw the gauntlet now (though that may not be the stick for her DH that is was for mine). Happy to report that this worked with DH as he turned around completely and we are better than ever.

Bottom line - this seems like a bigger issue than just parenting - this is about the marriage and life they want to build together (or don't).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a come to Jesus talk is way past due.

The fact that you have a three year old and never go out with friends for dinner because he "doesn't know how to get the kids to bed" is truly insane.

It's learned helplessness. Tell him you need to go out, and then go out. I'm sure he's smart enough to put the kids to bed.

I went out once to a friends house to check up on her while she was sick, came home at 9:30pm, no one has eaten dinner, and the kids are eating an entire bag of candy and watching TV because my husband says "they didn't want to go to bed" and "we wanted to wait up for you". It becomes not worth it, you know? And than I somehow become the bad guy. I'm not sure how to explain to him that it's important for the kids to eat a healthy meal and go to bed at an appropriate time without sounding like such a "mom". I feel like I'm always nagging - please put the dishes away, please wash hands before eating, please don't buy candy for the kids right before we are about to get lunch, please do this, please do that.

Are we married to the same man? Oh, I guess not. My scenario is the exact same as above, only he gives them a big bowl of cheese puffs. Happens pretty much EVERY time I get home late. I don't even go out by myself or do yoga after work any more because of this. Now, when I'm late, it's because I've worked overtime.

This sounds like laziness, pure and simple. Does he ever cook at other times? When DH does evenings solo, I don't expect a gourmet, perfectly healthy meal, but he can certainly boil spaghetti or do peanut butter sandwiches and fruit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a come to Jesus talk is way past due.

The fact that you have a three year old and never go out with friends for dinner because he "doesn't know how to get the kids to bed" is truly insane.

It's learned helplessness. Tell him you need to go out, and then go out. I'm sure he's smart enough to put the kids to bed.

I went out once to a friends house to check up on her while she was sick, came home at 9:30pm, no one has eaten dinner, and the kids are eating an entire bag of candy and watching TV because my husband says "they didn't want to go to bed" and "we wanted to wait up for you". It becomes not worth it, you know? And than I somehow become the bad guy. I'm not sure how to explain to him that it's important for the kids to eat a healthy meal and go to bed at an appropriate time without sounding like such a "mom". I feel like I'm always nagging - please put the dishes away, please wash hands before eating, please don't buy candy for the kids right before we are about to get lunch, please do this, please do that.

Are we married to the same man? Oh, I guess not. My scenario is the exact same as above, only he gives them a big bowl of cheese puffs. Happens pretty much EVERY time I get home late. I don't even go out by myself or do yoga after work any more because of this. Now, when I'm late, it's because I've worked overtime.

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this whole thing about he doesn't know how to get the kids to bed. Has he "shadowed you" a few times while you do it? What is so difficult? You should be able to have at least a monthly ladies night out while he takes care of dinner and bedtime routine. I think you are enabling his helplessness.

It's not difficult. He doesn't think it's necessary to do it her way and he wants to do it his way. She doesn't like his way, so she doesn't go out.

I think the missing link here is that he doesn't agree with you about what is required to be a parent. He thinks he is parenting. He doesn't agree that your kids need a different kind of parent and yes that's probably because of how he was raised. You can nag and ask and leave him home with the kids and if he doesn't agree with you, he's going to keep doing it his way.

The first and critical step is seeing if he's going to change his mind on what it means to be a parent. If he's not going to, then what are you going to do? I see two choices. You just accept it and move on or you leave him. Except in scenario 2, he'll have your kids alone sometimes and parent the way he is currently parenting.

I think there are two things to address first:

1) agree on some house rules. Not YOUR house rules but COLLECTIVE house rules that you both think are important.

Diiscussion points:
--does he believe there is a limit to the number of hours a young child can sit in front of a tv before it becomes harmful? If not, show him the research. If so, agree that you each have different limits and meet in the middle.

--Does he believe that both of you need and deserve personal time? How much does he feel you each should have? Can you put that on the calendar now?

--He says he is "fine" so his parents' approach worked. Does he believe he had the best childhood he could have? Is he happy with the relationships he has with his family members? What is his definition of "fine?" Is that his goal for his own kids? What is your goal?


2) pick a regular 24-hour period where he is in charge. And then you be truly 100% hands-off and preferably GONE (come home way after bedtime and if the kids are still awake you walk to the bedroom, lock the door, put in earplugs and go to bed), so that he actually has to deal with the consequences. There can be no "we waited for you." If they stay up, he gets to deal with overtired and exhausted kids the next day. If they eat candy and throw up or have diarrhea or wake at 2 am because they haven't had anything substantial to eat, that is also his choice and his problem to deal with. You do not get to tell him how to do it, but he does not get to leave the house a disaster or otherwise set you up for failure when you arrive. And you provide a similar time slot for him (e.g., he is responsible Friday 6pm-Saturday 6pm, you handle Saturday 6pm-Sunday bedtime).

Discuss in advance your goals for your time and his goals for his time with the kids. Try to agree on a minimum standard of cleanliness for the household.


And again, you need to discuss all of this in marital counseling. If he balks as whether you whould call a therapist or a divorce lawyer. If you don't mean that threat yet then go see a counselor yourself. You and your kids deserve better. You are bringing some of this dynamic yourself but you can't fix this whole mess without him.

I don't understand this whole thing about he doesn't know how to get the kids to bed. Has he "shadowed you" a few times while you do it? What is so difficult? You should be able to have at least a monthly ladies night out while he takes care of dinner and bedtime routine. I think you are enabling his helplessness.

Are you a stay at home mom, OP? Just wondering. I feel like some spouses take this approach when their partners are SAHPs. Not cool, but common enough.

Also, my own DH does a lot more than yours, but its still lopsided (I probably do 70% of the parenting)...he does a lot of the "fun" outings, but the boring parts of daily life often fall to me (hw, baths, dinners, bedtimes, piano practice, doctor appts, etc.) and its affect is that my kids are MUCH more attached to me than their dad. They are in elementary school, FWIW. That is the life your DH can look forward to - a great deal of indifference.