Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Pittsburgh and went to school in Philly. I would move to either in a heartbeat. Squirrel Hill and Shadyside are super family friendly and walkable. In Philly, I'd live on the mainline.

In other words, not Philadelphia.

If I were to live in Philly itself, it would be Society Hill but then kids would need to be in private school. I love Philly but wouldn't want to live in the city itself for the same reason I wouldn't live in dupont, petworth, Shaw, etc. just done with living in a row house and fighting for parking.

probably Pittsburgh for cost of living reasons

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Pittsburgh and went to school in Philly. I would move to either in a heartbeat. Squirrel Hill and Shadyside are super family friendly and walkable. In Philly, I'd live on the mainline.

In other words, not Philadelphia.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which would you choose to raise two small kids in?

City - Pittsburgh

Region - Philadelphia

Winning response.

I love Baltimore, but the other two are more livable right now. If Baltimore ever turns the corner on crime and schools and can regain its glory from yesteryear, it will become one of the best cities in America. At one time, Baltimore was the wealthiest in the country.

So was Buffalo. Nobody is clamoring to live there, either.

Big downside to Baltimore is its lack of close in walkable suburbs (Towson does not do it for me, and unless you are Jewish, I am not sure Pikesville is worth it - and its not that walkable) So you are either in the city proper, or dealing with a typical autocentric suburban lifestyle. For city neighborhoods there are a bunch that make sense without kids (Woodberry/Hampden does not get mentioned enough, I think), but fewer with kids, and people here have been over the disadvantages of them.

The big upside of Baltimore I see is convenience to DC (if you are here, you presumably have connections to DC) and, compared to Pitt at least, convenience to DC and to NYC. Plus its charming quirkiness, but maybe Pitt can match that - I barely know Pitt.

In way, focusing too much on the city is a red herring because none of them are Portland, Seattle or Austin, or Denver, which attract enough similar minded people to give the cities a dominant personality that makes it attractive to others and justifies moving there (beyond jobs). It's all about finding the right group of like minded people and organizing your life around those people and your preferred lifestyle. All three cities would work out just fine for most people as long as they managed to do that. After all, how much of a difference is there really between Shady Side/Squirrel Hill in Pittsburgh and Roland Park/Homeland in Baltimore and Chestnut Hill in Philadelphia? I know that I would have the same lifestyle in all three cities and be perfectly happy.

I will put forward my own observations on the advantages (and disadvantages) of the three cities:

Pittsburgh:
1. Cheapest of the three, although the nice areas are still expensive, but par for par compared to other two cities you're likely to fare better on the real estate end. Lots of great and affordable architecture.
2. Smallest city and metro area of the three, but still large enough to have the amenities of a city, with the supermarkets, shops and restaurants you need. Carnegie Mellon and Pitt ensure a sizeable presence of educated professionals in the area. Some good museums and cultural venues.
3. Easy access to the hills and mountains of western Pennsylvania and West Virginia. Hiking, white water rafting, all easily doable.
4. Lots of gentrification and renovation in the downtown area and along the rivers.

Downsides: geographically the most isolated. It's a long drive to the next big city and there's very little in between other than rural America and small, often dying, towns. There's a stronger "rural" and hill folk presence in the metro area. DC snobs might not like this. Urban schools are hit or miss. Pittsburgh is also very hilly, which not everyone likes or appreciates. There's no beltway around Pittsburgh because there are too many hills.

Baltimore:
1. Much cheaper than DC and slightly cheaper than Philly. Some great neighborhoods in the north side of the city (Roland Park). Great waterfront area. Good suburbs. Lovely architecture in the nice parts of town.
2. Midsize city that brings pretty decent cultural scene with it, two large museums, a good symphony, and of course, only a hour from DC with all its cultural resources. Hopkins/UMD crowd ensures plenty of educated professionals, who congregate mostly in North Baltimore or around the waterfront (and the burbs). Plenty of good restaurants and supermarkets.
3. Easy to get to DC and New York via train or car. BWI airport is easy in, easy out, although you'll still travel to Dulles for most international fights or rely on connections.
4. If you love sailing, Baltimore is the city to be.

Downsides: it's a problematic city. We know this. Crime/drugs is a persistent problem outside the central corridor / waterfront and occasionally it spills over. Schools within the city are very much a miss with a few exceptions. A lot of decay in Baltimore outside the central corridor. And it's not going anywhere any time soon.

Philadelphia:
1. Cheaper than DC. Lots of great housing stock much more affordable than comparables in DC. Lots of gentrification both in West Philadelphia near Penn and north/south of Center City. The Mainline is a fabulous area to live, if you can afford it. Chestnut Hill is great.
2. Much bigger urban area than both Baltimore and Pittsburgh, giving it a taste of New York. Wonderful Center City that is thriving. Excellent cultural scene, excellent museums, opera, symphony. Penn and the other universities add a young presence to the urban Center City environment as well as educated professionals. The best public transportation of the three cities with its subway and trams and regional rail. The old history of Philadelphia is undeniable.
3. Handy for NYC. Some really lovely countryside north and west of the city, although suburban sprawl is persistent.
4. Probably the best public schools of the three cities (within the urban city areas). Most of Philadelphia's schools are a miss, but there are some strong options and Masterman is the best public high school in the entire region. Suburban schools are by townships and are like any metro area, rich areas have the best schools, poorer suburbs have the worse schools.

Downsides: it has all the problems of Baltimore, albeit spread out across a larger area and diluted by a larger population. There's still lots of problematic urban areas and poor schools and obtuse city government. And it is weirdly dirtier than you'd expect. A lot of litter, unfortunately, especially outside Center City.

Anonymous wrote:Baltimore . I just kinda like it. Philli is too big, too huge of a blighted area. Pittsburg is too far from the water and too insular.

I'm sorry but, what do you call a city that has three rivers..the Ohio, Allegheny and the Monongahela? Pittsburgh! I don't know why anyone would say it is too far from water when it is surrounded by water.

Baltimore . I just kinda like it. Philli is too big, too huge of a blighted area. Pittsburg is too far from the water and too insular.

Pittsburgh for sure!

Baltimore is the coolest of the three cities, but it's the most dangerous by far.

Anonymous wrote:Pittsburgh is creepy as hell. There I said it. It's like the city that got left behind after coal moved on and the children of the corn moved in. PP's friends above probably love it because its cheap.

Philadelphia is dirty. Full stop. Only move/raise if you're living in the equivalent of Arlington to D.C. which isn't the city - i.e. the Main Line

Baltimore - I'd only go there for an investment 'opportunity'.

You picked some pretty bad cities.

You are a complete diot. The whole reason to move to one of those cities is to get away from a crappy, overpriced, charm-free suburb like Arlington.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you interested in the city proper, or general metro area? There are nice suburbs in Pittsburgh with decent schools, but no way I'd raise my kids IN the city. There are a lot of great up and coming neighborhoods in city limits for singles/DINKs, but not young families. We considered moving there (DH is from Pittsburgh) but decided against it for that reason.

Say whaaaat? I'm from Pittsburgh and there are LOTS of neighborhoods I'd love to raise a family in- Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, Highland Park, Greenfield, etc.

Squirrel Hill might be okay for public school but majority of Pittsburgh public schools are lacking. I love the Shadyside area and could definitely envision living there, if sending kids to private/parochial schools. OP didn't specify of privates were an option.

Something else to consider, while housing stock in general is far more affordable than D.C. Metro, property taxes as a % of assessed value are exhorbitant in Allegheny County. My MIL's condo on the far eastern edge of the city (practically spitting distance to Monroeville) has taxes almost as much as our Fairfax county SFH, and her condo is worth 1/3 or so of the value of our house. Revitalization of some areas, the tech start-ups and Google are bringing much needed corporate taxes into the coffers, but Pittsburgh still suffers like many Rust Belt cities with deferred maintence of roads, infrastructure, legacy costs for public servant pensions, etc. that are being paid by property owners. Something else to consider, though I imagine the same is true of Philly and Baltimore.

I grew up in Pittsburgh and went to school in Philly. I would move to either in a heartbeat. Squirrel Hill and Shadyside are super family friendly and walkable. In Philly, I'd live on the mainline.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you interested in the city proper, or general metro area? There are nice suburbs in Pittsburgh with decent schools, but no way I'd raise my kids IN the city. There are a lot of great up and coming neighborhoods in city limits for singles/DINKs, but not young families. We considered moving there (DH is from Pittsburgh) but decided against it for that reason.

OP here. I'm open to either, but would prefer a close-in/walkable suburb if I were to go that route.

Shadyside and Squirrel Hill seem like great city neighborhoods for families in Pittsburgh.

My sister lives there will two small kids and loves it. House costs a small fraction of one here.

Pittsburgh is creepy as hell. There I said it. It's like the city that got left behind after coal moved on and the children of the corn moved in. PP's friends above probably love it because its cheap.

Philadelphia is dirty. Full stop. Only move/raise if you're living in the equivalent of Arlington to D.C. which isn't the city - i.e. the Main Line

Baltimore - I'd only go there for an investment 'opportunity'.

You picked some pretty bad cities.