Anonymous
08/19/2017 12:53
Subject: Do cliques form in Elementary school
It starts in preschool. Most cliques are really initiated my moms.
Anonymous
08/19/2017 12:51
Subject: Do cliques form in Elementary school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes. Cliques start for girls around 2nd grade and the mean girl thing starts by 4th-5th.
-mom of boys who sees it happen over and over.
And the boys are welcoming of every outsider, right? I hate "mean girl" nonsense. ALL kids can be little jerks. Boys too.
You have toddlers I suppose?
Boys do not do the mean girl thing.
They bully differently. It tends to occur around sports and not until closer to puberty.
Girls will close ranks and isolate other girls from a very young age, starting in elementary. It gets worse when there is the trifecta of mean girls, or when the moms are cliquey.
Ask any person with elementary kids, and they will say the same thing. Girls start cliques much earlier than boys in elementary, and start the mean girl thing very early too. Boys start this kind of thing much later, and when they do (upper elementaty) it tends to be more classic, obvious bullying than the girls do. Mean girl stuff is more nuanced, and becauseof this the queen bee and girl bullies can remain tye teachers' darling with adult after adults saying "I can't believe Larla would do such a thing."
You are so wrong. I have a son and have seen first hand very mean boy behavior that includes socially isolating certain boys and telling other boys to not invite boys or include them. This is at a big three school.
Anonymous
08/18/2017 13:18
Subject: Do cliques form in Elementary school
Some parents still push the cliques as kids get older and it's embarrassing. The worst offenders have at least one parent from DC.
Anonymous
08/18/2017 13:17
Subject: Do cliques form in Elementary school
Yes because of parents forcing them
pbraverman
08/17/2017 13:26
Subject: Re:Do cliques form in Elementary school
Anonymous wrote:The number one thing I have seen that parents can do to combat cliques that veer into negative exclusivity is to take off the blinders that their kids are not 'mean girls' or they themselves are not 'mean'. The kids go where the parent lead. Do YOU go up and talk to someone new at parent gatherings? Do you notice who your child has had over and occasionally encourage a new friend for a playdate? Do you note which children may be geographically limited in their social opportunities and make a special effort to include them--perhaps offering a sleepover after a late event? Or do YOU take the easy route?
THIS.
If I could give only one piece of advice (that nobody asked for) around this topic, it would be: Focus on helping your children develop maturity, NOT "happiness." Maturity means doing things that don't necessarily make people happy. But it makes better people.
The book that really influenced my thinking on this topic is Richard Weissbourd's The Parents We Mean to Be. Highly recommended.
Peter
pbraverman
08/17/2017 13:23
Subject: Do cliques form in Elementary school
Anonymous wrote:Our DD will be starting at a new school this fall and I was wondering do cliques form in Elementary school or that is just a MS thing? Not sure how to handle this since our DD is a shy sweet girl who isn't aggresive in making friends
This is a fabulously complex topic, but we can agree on a few things. Excluding people in a mean-spirited way is bad. Welcoming them in kindness is good. And all of it is NORMAL in children. (That doesn't mean it's acceptable. It means it's expectable.)
OP: It sounds like this may be a concern for you rather than just a point of information. I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask teachers and administrators how they confront these issues at their schools. Nobody can eradicate it because it's tied to children's developmental stages; I'd be very wary of anybody who says, "That really doesn't happen at our school." That said, dealing with it thoughtfully can arm children with strong tools for when they grow up and confront some of the same issues throughout their lives. The worst bullying class I ever had in sixth grade turned out to be the closest group of kids I dealt with by they time they reached eighth grade. The reason? The kids decided to do something about it THEMSELVES, and asked the teachers to support them. It turned the entire experience around.
Another true story: A mom once called me to complain about exclusion among fifth-grade girls. Her older kids were at another school, and she told me with absolute certainty that they didn't face these issues at that other school. When we hung up, I called the middle school head of the other school to congratulate her on achieving a 100% meanness-free school. She joined me in a good laugh about it. (Then we hung up and went back to weeping separately.)
The teacher's post above is great; read it fully if you haven't.
Peter
_____________________
Disclaimer: The anonymity here makes me uncomfortable; it's easy to be uninformed, personal, or simply mean-spirited if people don't identify themselves. For that reason, I have an account so you know whose words you're reading. I have more than 20 years' experience as a teacher and administrator in independent schools, and I have counseled hundreds of students in finding their next schools. I hope I can be helpful to some folks. If you don't like something I've said, you're in good company — there's a long line of past students and parents ahead of you.
If you want to chat further, please feel free to contact me offline: peter <at> arcpd <dot> com
Anonymous
08/17/2017 13:00
Subject: Do cliques form in Elementary school
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes. Cliques start for girls around 2nd grade and the mean girl thing starts by 4th-5th.
-mom of boys who sees it happen over and over.
How about for boys? Wondering the same thing for my shy DS starting 1st.
Boys are much more welcoming than girls in elementary until around fifth grade when the jocks REALLY start to separate.
Boys seem to hang out with anyone who is interested in whatever they are playing at the time. I see that start to change when the more athletic kids start to hit their growth spurts and start looking older. Then they seem to push out the kids who are not athletic or who still look like little kids.
Boys are a lot simpler than girls when it comes to friend groups.
The jock thing is very true for 5th grade
Anonymous
08/11/2017 07:24
Subject: Re:Do cliques form in Elementary school
^^ Great points!
Anonymous
08/11/2017 02:12
Subject: Re:Do cliques form in Elementary school
Teacher here--one of the challenges for girls is that girls often reaffirm who is "in" their bonded group by delineating someone who is "out". These are the cliques of lore and reality, with shifting boundaries and hurtful, cruel exclusion that can strike at times in what seems a totally capricious way.
However, cliques are a part of growing up or we wouldn't be talking about them. A healthful clique is a social circle, hopefully based on genuine interests and affinities without malicious hurtful exclusion. They also are part of children moving towards independence from parents in a safe way (within a group) where they can try new things with the protection of their friends' encouragement. Your child will hopefully find this comfortable and supportive circle of friends, which is not to say that you should not encourage activity friends, neighborhood friends, and diversification and cross sections of friends when possible.
The number one thing I have seen that parents can do to combat cliques that veer into negative exclusivity is to take off the blinders that their kids are not 'mean girls' or they themselves are not 'mean'. The kids go where the parent lead. Do YOU go up and talk to someone new at parent gatherings? Do you notice who your child has had over and occasionally encourage a new friend for a playdate? Do you note which children may be geographically limited in their social opportunities and make a special effort to include them--perhaps offering a sleepover after a late event? Or do YOU take the easy route?
In elementary school negative cliques that engender hurt feelings have a lot more to do with ignorance and staying in a comfort zone than being 'mean', and since children at this age are pretty much totally dependent on parents for outside of school social opportunities it has an awful lot to do with parents.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-smiler/the-benefits-of-cliques_b_5709503.html
However, cliques are a part of growing up or we wouldn't be talking about them. A healthful clique is a social circle, hopefully based on genuine interests and affinities without malicious hurtful exclusion. They also are part of children moving towards independence from parents in a safe way (within a group) where they can try new things with the protection of their friends' encouragement. Your child will hopefully find this comfortable and supportive circle of friends, which is not to say that you should not encourage activity friends, neighborhood friends, and diversification and cross sections of friends when possible.
The number one thing I have seen that parents can do to combat cliques that veer into negative exclusivity is to take off the blinders that their kids are not 'mean girls' or they themselves are not 'mean'. The kids go where the parent lead. Do YOU go up and talk to someone new at parent gatherings? Do you notice who your child has had over and occasionally encourage a new friend for a playdate? Do you note which children may be geographically limited in their social opportunities and make a special effort to include them--perhaps offering a sleepover after a late event? Or do YOU take the easy route?
In elementary school negative cliques that engender hurt feelings have a lot more to do with ignorance and staying in a comfort zone than being 'mean', and since children at this age are pretty much totally dependent on parents for outside of school social opportunities it has an awful lot to do with parents.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-smiler/the-benefits-of-cliques_b_5709503.html
Anonymous
08/10/2017 22:48
Subject: Do cliques form in Elementary school
Op my DD started Es in 3rd grade in this area and while she had a bumpy first few weeks she made a lot of different friends who were not the mean girls.
Anonymous
08/10/2017 22:48
Subject: Do cliques form in Elementary school
Parents definitely socially engineer for their kids. I have seen this over and over again as well.
Certain parents will only invite their friends' kids or the "right" kids to parties--even in 3rd and 4th grade. It doesn't even matter who their kids play with at school. They only invite certain kids to parties, play dates, etc.
Certain parents will only invite their friends' kids or the "right" kids to parties--even in 3rd and 4th grade. It doesn't even matter who their kids play with at school. They only invite certain kids to parties, play dates, etc.
Anonymous
08/10/2017 22:32
Subject: Re:Do cliques form in Elementary school
Unfortunately, elementary school age children can be mean to each other. Although your DD is shy and not aggressive in making friends, she will probably make some friends. But prepare her that children can mean and that she needs to speak up for herself. Go over bullying and encourage her to share any concerns with you.
Anonymous
08/09/2017 11:37
Subject: Re:Do cliques form in Elementary school
Definitely happens for boys. My older DS's classmates (most are 2nd or 3rd child in family) started doing this at end of K and it was well established by some kids i 1st. My younger DS's class is made more of first borns, and we have not seen it quite as badly as my older son's classmates.
Anonymous
08/09/2017 11:33
Subject: Re:Do cliques form in Elementary school
I have noticed that parents attempt social engineering, and it is odd. That's all.
Anonymous
08/09/2017 11:30
Subject: Re:Do cliques form in Elementary school
Anonymous wrote:I think the moms are cliquey too so they make sure their children mostly hang out with the children of just their friends, It is sad. I noticed this in our preschool. We switched.
This is what I see happen over and over