Anonymous wrote:Hmm I am not sure you fully read my post. I said my brothers were weak. They are. If I ever tried to ice my husbands siblings out he would not have it. I wouldn't though because it is rude. Also sad for kids. Also pp you are going on the premise that I had some kind of issue or situation with these women. I have not. I do blame myself because I have been a doormat a long time. I am scratching my head that society says it is normal to have these weird relationships. No one even bats an eye. Distance makes these estrangements hard or easy depending on how you look at it. Anyway I think I received some useful info. Much appreciated.

There you go again. Your brothers are 'icing' you about because of their wives. Riiiiiiiight.

Hmm I am not sure you fully read my post. I said my brothers were weak. They are. If I ever tried to ice my husbands siblings out he would not have it. I wouldn't though because it is rude. Also sad for kids. Also pp you are going on the premise that I had some kind of issue or situation with these women. I have not. I do blame myself because I have been a doormat a long time. I am scratching my head that society says it is normal to have these weird relationships. No one even bats an eye. Distance makes these estrangements hard or easy depending on how you look at it. Anyway I think I received some useful info. Much appreciated.

Whatever. You are still blaming your SILs for not being the kind of SIL you expect. It's your brothers' job to manage the relations on their side of the family, not your SILs. If you think your SILs are controlling and preventing your brothers from having the kind of relationship they would like with your family then you should have sympathy for them and accept visits from them on any terms you can - much like you would if your brothers were in abusive relationships. How do you think loved ones of those in abusive relationships do it (I actually have a lot of experience in this area). But that's not what you did. You said it was 'all or none'.

People are calling you controlling because you are demanding something of your SILs that is unreasonable. You blame your SILs for not returning your phone calls yet you say they text you. They don't even need to do that yet you call them rude. It doesn't matter how many times a year you expect it. It's your brothers that you need to speak to and should have expectations of. If your expectations aren't being met, it's their fault, not their wives.

On the hospitality--yes has been abused.

I think healthy relationships you have to sort of meet each other half way. I acknowledge that no one has to pick up a phone -their choice. No one can be pushed to create holidays and family events. Their choice. My choice is to back away because I find it weird. My choice. It is sad but I think it is for the better. I think my brothers' are in a difficult space. They married controlling women and the embarrassment of our childhood is a real thing. I think it is still used as a manipulation even after mom is not around. I am disappointed that they (brothers) are weak. The irony is my one brother gets upset that the other brother's wife doesn't answer his call. Funny how that goes. Easier not to fight although I usually see relationships where there isn't balance end up in divorce because the guys or girls get tired of control. I do think it is interesting that there has been a lot of feedback from this thread that I am controlling because I expect to have a phone call returned a few times a year and to try and create on family event a once a year. We are not talking weekly or monthly nothing like that. I think we are at a sad state in the world when planning something once a year becomes a deal breaker. I also find it sad that the sins of the parents do seem to convey. I have done all the right things with education/work/kids and I am a kind person. I am actually the guardian if something happens to one brother's kids because her family has all sorts of instability so I am good enough for that. The same time it's okay to be rude to me because of my mom. Anyway..thanks for insight. I think I will work on letting this stuff go and moving on. Hard but I know others have done this and turned out okay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people bashing op for rejecting her brother's visit do.not.get.it.

Her brother doesn't want to see her. He wants to use her land to hunt. It's a use. Op is calling it correctly.

I've been through this with old friends who treated my house like their free retreat. One of dh's friends recently talked about visiting us and when he started to make plans, dear friend had no time to do anything with us. Df had another friend in town to visit but didn't want to stay with them. Our house is nicer. This is a common story with people who live near vacation areas.

Wow-thank you because you hit it on the nail. I realize this and I was sort of proud of myself that I finally said no. As for the non answering phones -I think it is rude. I would think to myself wow we had a nice visit and months later when I have a random question you cannot pick up phone..ever..and I am supposed to pretend this behavior is okay. Please understand I never shared an unkind word with either of these women. As for my mom, when I say peacemaker I mean I listened over the years about complaints on my mom and agreed with them. I also tried to get my mom to behave until she was too unwell to actually get it. They had valid issues with mom. Anyway family dynamics are hard but after a lifetime of being a dormat, I am finally getting comfortable with standing up for myself. I was looking for advice on people who have done the same thing and how to manage. One thing I am thinking is telling my kids to reach out after they are older and have a relationship with their cousins without all the parents baggage (mine too). Forcing a relationship is tough stuff and ultimately I think it fails.

I don't know, OP. Does your brother have a history of using you in a nonreciprocal way? If one of my sibs wanted something from me, I would be honored that they asked. I love them and would welcome the opportunity to help them or make them happy. Unless your hospitality has been abused in the past, this is a missed opportunity.

And I agree with a PP, that you are reading too much into the phone thing. I hate talking on the phone. I have a hard time staying organized and on task, so phone calls can be disruptive. I'd prefer to text back, especially if it's a quick question. I have actually found that I've become closer to family members since I've started texting. I think the mundane little details that lend themselves to texting actually create more intimacy.

.....As for the non answering phones -I think it is rude. I would think to myself wow we had a nice visit and months later when I have a random question you cannot pick up phone..ever..and I am supposed to pretend this behavior is okay......

While you believe it is rude not to answer the phone, not everyone feels the same. I don't. I have no problem leaving a message or sending a text. You are imposing your individual standard on the and then judging them by it. I'm sure you do it in other areas which is why they avoid you. I have no doubt they are polite in your presence but do not want a close relationship with you. There's nothing wrong with that. You have decided what they are willing to offer is unacceptable to you - and you are entitled to do it. Just don't bitch about it. You each have made your choices and your lives will be just fine without each other.

Anonymous wrote:You people bashing op for rejecting her brother's visit do.not.get.it.

Her brother doesn't want to see her. He wants to use her land to hunt. It's a use. Op is calling it correctly.

I've been through this with old friends who treated my house like their free retreat. One of dh's friends recently talked about visiting us and when he started to make plans, dear friend had no time to do anything with us. Df had another friend in town to visit but didn't want to stay with them. Our house is nicer. This is a common story with people who live near vacation areas.

Wow-thank you because you hit it on the nail. I realize this and I was sort of proud of myself that I finally said no. As for the non answering phones -I think it is rude. I would think to myself wow we had a nice visit and months later when I have a random question you cannot pick up phone..ever..and I am supposed to pretend this behavior is okay. Please understand I never shared an unkind word with either of these women. As for my mom, when I say peacemaker I mean I listened over the years about complaints on my mom and agreed with them. I also tried to get my mom to behave until she was too unwell to actually get it. They had valid issues with mom. Anyway family dynamics are hard but after a lifetime of being a dormat, I am finally getting comfortable with standing up for myself. I was looking for advice on people who have done the same thing and how to manage. One thing I am thinking is telling my kids to reach out after they are older and have a relationship with their cousins without all the parents baggage (mine too). Forcing a relationship is tough stuff and ultimately I think it fails.

I don't know why anyone ever comes on here to get relationship advice. Half of you are insance and constantly projecting your own issues and relationships onto the OPs that post.


OP, suggest you talkk to some of your friends IRL instead. The only thing I can add is that I understand why you said no to your brother; it sounds like he just wanted to use your vacation home and that it actually had nothing to do with visiting you--was he even planning on seeing you or your family?

Anonymous wrote:You people bashing op for rejecting her brother's visit do.not.get.it.

Her brother doesn't want to see her. He wants to use her land to hunt. It's a use. Op is calling it correctly.

I've been through this with old friends who treated my house like their free retreat. One of dh's friends recently talked about visiting us and when he started to make plans, dear friend had no time to do anything with us. Df had another friend in town to visit but didn't want to stay with them. Our house is nicer. This is a common story with people who live near vacation areas.

Oh come on. If that was the case then insisting the entire family come would be a use too. OP is controlling and her brothers have choosen to limit contact with her. She is now in a situation where she can see them - even if for use only or not. This isn't a problem with her brothers. This is a problem with her. She now can either accept the fact that she is the problem and try to fix it or keep trying to control their behavior.

You people bashing op for rejecting her brother's visit do.not.get.it.

Her brother doesn't want to see her. He wants to use her land to hunt. It's a use. Op is calling it correctly.

I've been through this with old friends who treated my house like their free retreat. One of dh's friends recently talked about visiting us and when he started to make plans, dear friend had no time to do anything with us. Df had another friend in town to visit but didn't want to stay with them. Our house is nicer. This is a common story with people who live near vacation areas.

I don't understand why you refused your brother a visit.

For the other stuff, do you think your SILs somehow think you are partly to blame for the tense situations when your mother was still alive? In that case, it might be well for you to reach out directly to them, not your brothers. I always communicate with the person in the family directly responsible for making plans.

I feel really bad for your brother that you refused his visit because it didn't meet your rules! He made an effort and you squashed it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don't pick up the phone when you call because they think you're entitled and annoying.

Often, the "peacemakers" (AKA weak and pathetic people who are totally selfish and refuse to call out appalling behavior because they're protecting their own interests) are exactly the problem in family dynamics. When someone is behaving horribly in a family situation, there are usually enablers who pretend it's all not that bad, otherwise it wouldn't continue.

And you're delusional if you think your brothers aren't well aware that their wives don't like you. They won't choose your side against their wives, so don't embarrass yourself by trying to force that.

PP is a 100% correct. I have lived through the same bs for 25 years - I would be one of the hated sil.

This x 1000.
I screen my mother's calls too and only respond by text. That's all I can handle. She is just like you OP.

Not everyone wants to pretend everything is great. You don't get a relationship just because you're family. That's a low blow to your brother too. If you actually cared about trying for family relationships you would've accepted in a heartbeat. I'll bet they're shaking their heads about how f*cked you are viewing all this. For the sake of your own kids get help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don't pick up the phone when you call because they think you're entitled and annoying.

Often, the "peacemakers" (AKA weak and pathetic people who are totally selfish and refuse to call out appalling behavior because they're protecting their own interests) are exactly the problem in family dynamics. When someone is behaving horribly in a family situation, there are usually enablers who pretend it's all not that bad, otherwise it wouldn't continue.

And you're delusional if you think your brothers aren't well aware that their wives don't like you. They won't choose your side against their wives, so don't embarrass yourself by trying to force that.

PP is a 100% correct. I have lived through the same bs for 25 years - I would be one of the hated sil.

This x 1000.
I screen my mother's calls too and only respond by text. That's all I can handle. She is just like you OP.

Not everyone wants to pretend everything is great. You don't get a relationship just because you're family. That's a low blow to your brother too. If you actually cared about trying for family relationships you would've accepted in a heartbeat. I'll bet they're shaking their heads about how f*cked you are viewing all this. For the sake of your own kids get help.