I think part of the issue is that most of us in the $200k-$400k range push our income to its limits. I.e. we buy the most expensive house we can afford, get the best car we can afford, renovate the house if we can afford it, but the kid in fancy preschool/the best daycare, etc. So none of us feel like we just have a bunch of money lying around and can do/buy anything we want, which is what we expect "rich" to feel like.

Our HHI is around $300k (one kid) and I don't feel rich at all, because after mortgage, daycare, car payment, utilities, and retirement savings we have basically nothing leftover. I am constantly thinking about whether we should be saving more for college, moving to a district with a better middle/high school, visiting both sets of grandparents this year, etc. None of that can be accomplished without careful planning and tough choices. So it's hard to feel "rich" in that situation, even though objectively I know I have a very nice and comfortable life and am better off than the vast majority of people in this country. I think the more accurate thing is just to say "you are in the top x% of earners in [area]" and not try to use normative terms like "rich" or "affluent" that seem to imply a lifestyle that most of us don't have.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The out-of-touch DCUMers are an example of why middle America is furious with the elites.

I know young families earning $100,000 - and they rent a decent townhouse with a bedroom for each of their kids, own two cars, go to the beach for a week on vacation, go to moderate restaurants, and that type of thing. Straight middle-class life.

Sure- middle class life. A townhouse. Ocean City for a week. Hardly affluent.

What is affluent? We make $450k/year and don't feel "affluent", but maybe I don't know what that means. We don't think about money or worry about it but we don't do anything extravagant. We fly economy. We drive our cars until 100k miles. We go on vacations but we don't stay in fancy places. I think not worrying about money is a luxury but feeing "affluent" is pretty subjective.

I think the issue here, re: "feeling" affluent, is that people are focusing on what they do not buy rather than what they *are* buying. Whatever we can afford and get used to buying has a tendency to become our new minimum standard.

To me, the real test is this: "Do I have choices?" Almost everyone would like a little more money to improve one more area of their life; if we don't recognize spending power until we've run out of dreams, that will be a long time.

Taking myself as an example, I live in a small house (1200 sq ft), take camping vacation, and send my child to a private school, all while saving for retirement and paying off student loans. I splurged on a kitchen remodel after saving up for it. I have about 20k left over to save, that I have earmarked for daycare if we have a second child. Absent child 2, we will save that money.

In an alternative scenario, I could be taking nicer vacations and enjoying a nice yard and bigger house, while using public school. I would not have needed the kitchen remodel because I might have bought a house with a kitchen I loved already.

I'm clearly not as rich as someone with a nice house *and* money to fund the educations of multiple children. But I very clearly have more spending power than I did at 50k or 80k hhi. As I used to make that figures, I remember exactly what I was buying at those points.

What distinguishes me from the barely-scraping-by economy of the household in which I was raised is the fact that I have the choice to invest discretionary income in one or two high-priority goals *that are not available to a household making half the amount.*

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k in the DC area is "very affluent"?

LOL, what are you smoking?

Yes it is

Seriously, what is it? It's obviously some good stuff, I want some.

you mean to tell me that an individual earning over $200,000 isn't very affluent? I earn half that and I'm very comfortable.

Yes, I do. And a family making $400k isn't either. Welcome to DC.

Then should I cancel my summer river cruise to Amsterdam? Apparently, that's for affluent people, and I only earn $110,000. I'm beginning to think you are all a bunch of spoiled 30-somethings who never learned what it feels like to "make do."

For example, I grew up in an UMC home. But when I graduated from college, all I could afford was a dumpy apartment. It was quite a let-down from the beautiful house I grew up in, but hey....that's life, and I was only earning $45,000. (All figures translated to today's dollars.) Then I moved up the ladder and started earning $75,000, at which time I bought a teensy condo. Several years later, I got bumped to $100,000, and bought a nice townhouse out in the suburbs. Still had plenty left for international travel, season theater tickets, clubhouse level at Nationals games, a bi-weekly maid, etc. Definitely upper-middle class.

But it's because I started out in the dumpy apartment at $45,000 that I appreciate how upscale one's lifestyle can be on $100,000. I suspect some of you bitching about $400,000 being middle class came out of law school to a $150,000 salary and don't have a clue what TRUE middle class is.

OK, point taken. Congrats on what you've accomplished, it sounds lovely. Season theatre tickets.. gah, just a little jealous.

And there we have it from a DCUM snob. You snobs don't know how good you have it. Maybe you should go to flyover country you belittle and see how the middle class really lives.

Wow, you have problems. You're so defensive and quick to judge other people, but you call others "snobs?" I can only imagine how your judgmental, bitter attitude goes over with people in real life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k in the DC area is "very affluent"?

LOL, what are you smoking?

Yes it is

Seriously, what is it? It's obviously some good stuff, I want some.

you mean to tell me that an individual earning over $200,000 isn't very affluent? I earn half that and I'm very comfortable.

Yes, I do. And a family making $400k isn't either. Welcome to DC.

Then should I cancel my summer river cruise to Amsterdam? Apparently, that's for affluent people, and I only earn $110,000. I'm beginning to think you are all a bunch of spoiled 30-somethings who never learned what it feels like to "make do."

For example, I grew up in an UMC home. But when I graduated from college, all I could afford was a dumpy apartment. It was quite a let-down from the beautiful house I grew up in, but hey....that's life, and I was only earning $45,000. (All figures translated to today's dollars.) Then I moved up the ladder and started earning $75,000, at which time I bought a teensy condo. Several years later, I got bumped to $100,000, and bought a nice townhouse out in the suburbs. Still had plenty left for international travel, season theater tickets, clubhouse level at Nationals games, a bi-weekly maid, etc. Definitely upper-middle class.

But it's because I started out in the dumpy apartment at $45,000 that I appreciate how upscale one's lifestyle can be on $100,000. I suspect some of you bitching about $400,000 being middle class came out of law school to a $150,000 salary and don't have a clue what TRUE middle class is.

OK, point taken. Congrats on what you've accomplished, it sounds lovely. Season theatre tickets.. gah, just a little jealous.

And there we have it from a DCUM snob. You snobs don't know how good you have it. Maybe you should go to flyover country you belittle and see how the middle class really lives.

I wasn't being sarcastic... I meant it. Geez.

SORRY!! So many people are dumping on $100,000 earners as barely scrapping by that I misread your comment. Thanks for the nice feedback - and again, apologies!

That's okay! I understand totally- it's hard to convey sarcasm online so sometimes when someone actually comes along and means it, it looks like fakeness. I have an earnest way of speaking too so it's not the first time. But I truly think what you've accomplished is great and, from one single lady to another, you're living the dream, single, amazing trips to Europe, going to the sympathy... life goals. I'm in my 20s, so hopefully I will be there one day. Sounds a lot better than changing diapers and putting up with a sex crazed DH who doesn't do jack around the house, I'll tell you that much!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k in the DC area is "very affluent"?

LOL, what are you smoking?

Yes it is

Seriously, what is it? It's obviously some good stuff, I want some.

you mean to tell me that an individual earning over $200,000 isn't very affluent? I earn half that and I'm very comfortable.

Yes, I do. And a family making $400k isn't either. Welcome to DC.

Then should I cancel my summer river cruise to Amsterdam? Apparently, that's for affluent people, and I only earn $110,000. I'm beginning to think you are all a bunch of spoiled 30-somethings who never learned what it feels like to "make do."

For example, I grew up in an UMC home. But when I graduated from college, all I could afford was a dumpy apartment. It was quite a let-down from the beautiful house I grew up in, but hey....that's life, and I was only earning $45,000. (All figures translated to today's dollars.) Then I moved up the ladder and started earning $75,000, at which time I bought a teensy condo. Several years later, I got bumped to $100,000, and bought a nice townhouse out in the suburbs. Still had plenty left for international travel, season theater tickets, clubhouse level at Nationals games, a bi-weekly maid, etc. Definitely upper-middle class.

But it's because I started out in the dumpy apartment at $45,000 that I appreciate how upscale one's lifestyle can be on $100,000. I suspect some of you bitching about $400,000 being middle class came out of law school to a $150,000 salary and don't have a clue what TRUE middle class is.

OK, point taken. Congrats on what you've accomplished, it sounds lovely. Season theatre tickets.. gah, just a little jealous.

And there we have it from a DCUM snob. You snobs don't know how good you have it. Maybe you should go to flyover country you belittle and see how the middle class really lives.

I wasn't being sarcastic... I meant it. Geez.

SORRY!! So many people are dumping on $100,000 earners as barely scrapping by that I misread your comment. Thanks for the nice feedback - and again, apologies!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k in the DC area is "very affluent"?

LOL, what are you smoking?

Yes it is

Seriously, what is it? It's obviously some good stuff, I want some.

you mean to tell me that an individual earning over $200,000 isn't very affluent? I earn half that and I'm very comfortable.

Yes, I do. And a family making $400k isn't either. Welcome to DC.

Then should I cancel my summer river cruise to Amsterdam? Apparently, that's for affluent people, and I only earn $110,000. I'm beginning to think you are all a bunch of spoiled 30-somethings who never learned what it feels like to "make do."

For example, I grew up in an UMC home. But when I graduated from college, all I could afford was a dumpy apartment. It was quite a let-down from the beautiful house I grew up in, but hey....that's life, and I was only earning $45,000. (All figures translated to today's dollars.) Then I moved up the ladder and started earning $75,000, at which time I bought a teensy condo. Several years later, I got bumped to $100,000, and bought a nice townhouse out in the suburbs. Still had plenty left for international travel, season theater tickets, clubhouse level at Nationals games, a bi-weekly maid, etc. Definitely upper-middle class.

But it's because I started out in the dumpy apartment at $45,000 that I appreciate how upscale one's lifestyle can be on $100,000. I suspect some of you bitching about $400,000 being middle class came out of law school to a $150,000 salary and don't have a clue what TRUE middle class is.

OK, point taken. Congrats on what you've accomplished, it sounds lovely. Season theatre tickets.. gah, just a little jealous.

And there we have it from a DCUM snob. You snobs don't know how good you have it. Maybe you should go to flyover country you belittle and see how the middle class really lives.

I wasn't being sarcastic... I meant it. Geez.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k in the DC area is "very affluent"?

LOL, what are you smoking?

Yes it is

Seriously, what is it? It's obviously some good stuff, I want some.

you mean to tell me that an individual earning over $200,000 isn't very affluent? I earn half that and I'm very comfortable.

Yes, I do. And a family making $400k isn't either. Welcome to DC.

Then should I cancel my summer river cruise to Amsterdam? Apparently, that's for affluent people, and I only earn $110,000. I'm beginning to think you are all a bunch of spoiled 30-somethings who never learned what it feels like to "make do."

For example, I grew up in an UMC home. But when I graduated from college, all I could afford was a dumpy apartment. It was quite a let-down from the beautiful house I grew up in, but hey....that's life, and I was only earning $45,000. (All figures translated to today's dollars.) Then I moved up the ladder and started earning $75,000, at which time I bought a teensy condo. Several years later, I got bumped to $100,000, and bought a nice townhouse out in the suburbs. Still had plenty left for international travel, season theater tickets, clubhouse level at Nationals games, a bi-weekly maid, etc. Definitely upper-middle class.

But it's because I started out in the dumpy apartment at $45,000 that I appreciate how upscale one's lifestyle can be on $100,000. I suspect some of you bitching about $400,000 being middle class came out of law school to a $150,000 salary and don't have a clue what TRUE middle class is.

OK, point taken. Congrats on what you've accomplished, it sounds lovely. Season theatre tickets.. gah, just a little jealous.

And there we have it from a DCUM snob. You snobs don't know how good you have it. Maybe you should go to flyover country you belittle and see how the middle class really lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k in the DC area is "very affluent"?

LOL, what are you smoking?

Yes it is

Seriously, what is it? It's obviously some good stuff, I want some.

you mean to tell me that an individual earning over $200,000 isn't very affluent? I earn half that and I'm very comfortable.

Yes, I do. And a family making $400k isn't either. Welcome to DC.

Then should I cancel my summer river cruise to Amsterdam? Apparently, that's for affluent people, and I only earn $110,000. I'm beginning to think you are all a bunch of spoiled 30-somethings who never learned what it feels like to "make do."

For example, I grew up in an UMC home. But when I graduated from college, all I could afford was a dumpy apartment. It was quite a let-down from the beautiful house I grew up in, but hey....that's life, and I was only earning $45,000. (All figures translated to today's dollars.) Then I moved up the ladder and started earning $75,000, at which time I bought a teensy condo. Several years later, I got bumped to $100,000, and bought a nice townhouse out in the suburbs. Still had plenty left for international travel, season theater tickets, clubhouse level at Nationals games, a bi-weekly maid, etc. Definitely upper-middle class.

But it's because I started out in the dumpy apartment at $45,000 that I appreciate how upscale one's lifestyle can be on $100,000. I suspect some of you bitching about $400,000 being middle class came out of law school to a $150,000 salary and don't have a clue what TRUE middle class is.

OK, point taken. Congrats on what you've accomplished, it sounds lovely. Season theatre tickets.. gah, just a little jealous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k in the DC area is "very affluent"?

LOL, what are you smoking?

Yes it is

Seriously, what is it? It's obviously some good stuff, I want some.

you mean to tell me that an individual earning over $200,000 isn't very affluent? I earn half that and I'm very comfortable.

Yes, I do. And a family making $400k isn't either. Welcome to DC.

Then should I cancel my summer river cruise to Amsterdam? Apparently, that's for affluent people, and I only earn $110,000. I'm beginning to think you are all a bunch of spoiled 30-somethings who never learned what it feels like to "make do."

For example, I grew up in an UMC home. But when I graduated from college, all I could afford was a dumpy apartment. It was quite a let-down from the beautiful house I grew up in, but hey....that's life, and I was only earning $45,000. (All figures translated to today's dollars.) Then I moved up the ladder and started earning $75,000, at which time I bought a teensy condo. Several years later, I got bumped to $100,000, and bought a nice townhouse out in the suburbs. Still had plenty left for international travel, season theater tickets, clubhouse level at Nationals games, a bi-weekly maid, etc. Definitely upper-middle class.

But it's because I started out in the dumpy apartment at $45,000 that I appreciate how upscale one's lifestyle can be on $100,000. I suspect some of you bitching about $400,000 being middle class came out of law school to a $150,000 salary and don't have a clue what TRUE middle class is.

A summer cruise to Amsterdam? Have at it. I thought cruising was apart of the scented candle set

What's a scented candle set? This is a Viking river cruise. I don't get the connection.

A childhood friend of mine earns $55,000, and she rents an "OK" townhouse in Gaithersburg. That's middle-class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k in the DC area is "very affluent"?

LOL, what are you smoking?

Yes it is

Seriously, what is it? It's obviously some good stuff, I want some.

you mean to tell me that an individual earning over $200,000 isn't very affluent? I earn half that and I'm very comfortable.

Yes, I do. And a family making $400k isn't either. Welcome to DC.

Then should I cancel my summer river cruise to Amsterdam? Apparently, that's for affluent people, and I only earn $110,000. I'm beginning to think you are all a bunch of spoiled 30-somethings who never learned what it feels like to "make do."

For example, I grew up in an UMC home. But when I graduated from college, all I could afford was a dumpy apartment. It was quite a let-down from the beautiful house I grew up in, but hey....that's life, and I was only earning $45,000. (All figures translated to today's dollars.) Then I moved up the ladder and started earning $75,000, at which time I bought a teensy condo. Several years later, I got bumped to $100,000, and bought a nice townhouse out in the suburbs. Still had plenty left for international travel, season theater tickets, clubhouse level at Nationals games, a bi-weekly maid, etc. Definitely upper-middle class.

But it's because I started out in the dumpy apartment at $45,000 that I appreciate how upscale one's lifestyle can be on $100,000. I suspect some of you bitching about $400,000 being middle class came out of law school to a $150,000 salary and don't have a clue what TRUE middle class is.

A summer cruise to Amsterdam? Have at it. I thought cruising was apart of the scented candle set

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:200k in the DC area is "very affluent"?

LOL, what are you smoking?

Yes it is

Seriously, what is it? It's obviously some good stuff, I want some.

you mean to tell me that an individual earning over $200,000 isn't very affluent? I earn half that and I'm very comfortable.

Yes, I do. And a family making $400k isn't either. Welcome to DC.

Then should I cancel my summer river cruise to Amsterdam? Apparently, that's for affluent people, and I only earn $110,000. I'm beginning to think you are all a bunch of spoiled 30-somethings who never learned what it feels like to "make do."

For example, I grew up in an UMC home. But when I graduated from college, all I could afford was a dumpy apartment. It was quite a let-down from the beautiful house I grew up in, but hey....that's life, and I was only earning $45,000. (All figures translated to today's dollars.) Then I moved up the ladder and started earning $75,000, at which time I bought a teensy condo. Several years later, I got bumped to $100,000, and bought a nice townhouse out in the suburbs. Still had plenty left for international travel, season theater tickets, clubhouse level at Nationals games, a bi-weekly maid, etc. Definitely upper-middle class.

But it's because I started out in the dumpy apartment at $45,000 that I appreciate how upscale one's lifestyle can be on $100,000. I suspect some of you bitching about $400,000 being middle class came out of law school to a $150,000 salary and don't have a clue what TRUE middle class is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The out-of-touch DCUMers are an example of why middle America is furious with the elites.

I know young families earning $100,000 - and they rent a decent townhouse with a bedroom for each of their kids, own two cars, go to the beach for a week on vacation, go to moderate restaurants, and that type of thing. Straight middle-class life.

Sure- middle class life. A townhouse. Ocean City for a week. Hardly affluent.

What is affluent? We make $450k/year and don't feel "affluent", but maybe I don't know what that means. We don't think about money or worry about it but we don't do anything extravagant. We fly economy. We drive our cars until 100k miles. We go on vacations but we don't stay in fancy places. I think not worrying about money is a luxury but feeing "affluent" is pretty subjective.

Exactly. Not affluent. UMC

I was a poster who used the term "affluent" to describe myself. So yes, I'll bite.

The problem with the word "rich" is that it conjures images of extreme wealth. You don't need to work, you have riding horses, you vacation in Europe every summer without sweating, private school is expected, and so the picture continues. Pick your favorite idyllic picture. There is a very clear difference between those who are in, say, the upper half of one percent and a 15 percenter. It also matters where the money comes from -- assets? or is it all dependent on showing up at the office next week? We do need a word to describe the freedom and power that comes with large amounts of income *and* wealth in the form of assets (acquired or inherited).

However, we also shouldn't be grouping everyone who isn't posh-rich in with "the middle class."

Upper middle class? Affluent? Pick your favorite word. But we need a word.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The out-of-touch DCUMers are an example of why middle America is furious with the elites.

I know young families earning $100,000 - and they rent a decent townhouse with a bedroom for each of their kids, own two cars, go to the beach for a week on vacation, go to moderate restaurants, and that type of thing. Straight middle-class life.

Sure- middle class life. A townhouse. Ocean City for a week. Hardly affluent.

What is affluent? We make $450k/year and don't feel "affluent", but maybe I don't know what that means. We don't think about money or worry about it but we don't do anything extravagant. We fly economy. We drive our cars until 100k miles. We go on vacations but we don't stay in fancy places. I think not worrying about money is a luxury but feeing "affluent" is pretty subjective.