And you people have the gall to trash Melania. Geesh.

Anonymous wrote:i think men know enough. we are waking up. and spreading the teachings: boy's never get married. never have kids. never cohabit. never give a woman a key. never allow a woman to leave stuff at your place. always use a condom you bought yourself. never leave a condom unattended. never pay for dates. never buy a woman gifts. never trust a woman. just pump and dump and never look back. if you're looking for love buy a dog.

Over loaded family courts say otherwise. Many men do not use condoms.

i think men know enough. we are waking up. and spreading the teachings: boy's never get married. never have kids. never cohabit. never give a woman a key. never allow a woman to leave stuff at your place. always use a condom you bought yourself. never leave a condom unattended. never pay for dates. never buy a woman gifts. never trust a woman. just pump and dump and never look back. if you're looking for love buy a dog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sort of. We dated for a long time. I was ready to be married, and honestly, I did love him as a person. He's a great person. But I never had the PASSION for him. And that is what is still missing. I love sex, but I could take it or leave it with him.

And I was quite happy with him for a long time. But when the shit hit the fan -- and it did of course -- the weaknesses in our relationship came out. Like the lack of intimacy (I don't mean sex, I mean emotional intimacy). And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this person. He's a good husband. A good father. A good citizen. All that. But that chemistry? not there.

So, sure. It's fine. It's passable. Hindsight is 20-20.

^^^
This. Couldn't have described it better if I tried.

+1000.

We love each other, but there isn't adoration. Emotionally, DH is a brick wall. It feels like you could replace me with any other woman and he'd be just as happy; doesn't necessarily want *me*, he just wants someone. A few weeks ago, he actually smiled at me and called me adorable, and I burst into tears because he'd never done anything at all like that before.

Rationally, I know chemistry and passion aren't everything either- I had a ton of those with an ex and we were a powder keg that blew up all the time. But it would be nice to have a little.

That's probably 75% of men or higher. Women are often more loyal and to their kids. Why so many put their kids first knowing a guy either cheats, or will replace you at the drop of a hat.

"largely interchangeable " meaning we actually run with a good enough option who is actually available? You make that sound like a bad thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hmm. Define love.

I have stuck to my spouse through some events and personality flaws that would have been divorce-worthy for other people.
Is that love?

Yes! I think this is the real question. When I was in my mid-20's, I was talking to my mom. She and my dad had been married over 30 years at that point (and still are), and by ALL accounts have a wonderful relationship: they laugh together, share hobbies and spend as much free time together as they can, they know each other in and out and really light up when talking about each other. My dad openly adores her, and watching their interactions you just SEE the connection. They have a great life together. But anyways, my mom and I were talking that about all kinds of stuff that day, and I asked her outright: "Do you love dad?". She got quiet for a minute and then said "You know...love is a funny word. I certainly can't imagine my life without him". She said it very matter-of-fairly and in no way was she conveying sadness or disappointment, just saying that's how it is by that point. I think it depends what you mean by "love" - I believe if you ask most analytical, reflective people they will draw a hard distinction between the rush-like excitement of falling in love and the initial newness of it, and the sort of comfortable love that comes with building a long and enduring life together and going through all the ups and downs, both growing and changing and choosing to stay together.

Personally, I'm in my 30's and have seen more struggle in friends that had intense, passionate courtships and believed they were marrying their "soulmate" because it's almost like they then expected everything to always be easy. When they inevitably hit hard patches, it was much much rougher and they weren't used to having to put in the work on their relationship. Whereas others compromised on intense passion in exchange for steady, good-hearted men and went into marriage with their eyes open...and those marriages have tended to fare better.

I do think it depends not only on knowing yourself and your personal needs, but also how you define love and what exactly you expect out of it 5/10/20+ years down the road.

My mom asked me if I wouldn't get bored with my soon to be husband. I said no. But I knew on one level I already was (the sexual). People throw around the settling word ... and I supposed you'd say that I settled. But the bolded above resonated with me from that time. Now ... the 20+ years down the line, I don't feel the same. But say I'd married the man with whom I'd had a firey passion .... I might feel envious of the steady type marriage.

I think the self-inflicted arranged marriage (i.e. settling) is OK. I think it is a reasonable exchange to find a partner you can live with for the next 50 years ... because he/she is a kind, hardworking person, who is interesting and funny, and you think he/she will be a good partner and parent. Because marriage really is about the long game. God almighty, is it the long game.

Anonymous wrote:I think many women also settle for the economic factor, not even allowing themselves the option to leave because they don't have the earning power to make it on their own.

I think women are more realistic knowing there's no prince charming. They look around and there's not much out there. They realize their time to have a family is limited and yes economics is one of the biggest factors like anything. It's security for them and their offspring.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for sharing. stuff like this makes great education material for young boy's. after thousands off years wandering in the dark men have finally cracked the mystery. conclusion: women do not love men. they just manipulate and use men for the stuff we can give them. ohhh and if you wonder where all the good men have gone? they see and hear thing's like this and say. f this shit i'm out. i'm going my own way. MGTOW

WOW there are a lot of weirdly sensitive men on this board who feel some deep need to lash out. You alright there? Maybe have a little walk, take a few deep breaths.

Anyways, to your point...there is actually a current thread in the relationships forum about how women are largely interchangeable to men (who, of course, just use them to fill their needs.) Relax; it's good to hear different people's thoughts on things

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sort of. We dated for a long time. I was ready to be married, and honestly, I did love him as a person. He's a great person. But I never had the PASSION for him. And that is what is still missing. I love sex, but I could take it or leave it with him.

And I was quite happy with him for a long time. But when the shit hit the fan -- and it did of course -- the weaknesses in our relationship came out. Like the lack of intimacy (I don't mean sex, I mean emotional intimacy). And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this person. He's a good husband. A good father. A good citizen. All that. But that chemistry? not there.

So, sure. It's fine. It's passable. Hindsight is 20-20.

^^^
This. Couldn't have described it better if I tried.

Do you have intellectual chemistry?

That is a great question, actually. I'd say yes, we had in the past, but both of us have changed some (not for the worse, just for the difference, well, maybe me for the worse) and our differences shine through sometimes. I have developed strong defenses against conflict, which makes intellectual arguments difficult, and I don't like the conflict at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Hmm. Define love.

I have stuck to my spouse through some events and personality flaws that would have been divorce-worthy for other people.
Is that love?

Yes! I think this is the real question. When I was in my mid-20's, I was talking to my mom. She and my dad had been married over 30 years at that point (and still are), and by ALL accounts have a wonderful relationship: they laugh together, share hobbies and spend as much free time together as they can, they know each other in and out and really light up when talking about each other. My dad openly adores her, and watching their interactions you just SEE the connection. They have a great life together. But anyways, my mom and I were talking that about all kinds of stuff that day, and I asked her outright: "Do you love dad?". She got quiet for a minute and then said "You know...love is a funny word. I certainly can't imagine my life without him". She said it very matter-of-fairly and in no way was she conveying sadness or disappointment, just saying that's how it is by that point. I think it depends what you mean by "love" - I believe if you ask most analytical, reflective people they will draw a hard distinction between the rush-like excitement of falling in love and the initial newness of it, and the sort of comfortable love that comes with building a long and enduring life together and going through all the ups and downs, both growing and changing and choosing to stay together.

Personally, I'm in my 30's and have seen more struggle in friends that had intense, passionate courtships and believed they were marrying their "soulmate" because it's almost like they then expected everything to always be easy. When they inevitably hit hard patches, it was much much rougher and they weren't used to having to put in the work on their relationship. Whereas others compromised on intense passion in exchange for steady, good-hearted men and went into marriage with their eyes open...and those marriages have tended to fare better.

I do think it depends not only on knowing yourself and your personal needs, but also how you define love and what exactly you expect out of it 5/10/20+ years down the road.

I held out intil I met someone I loved and wanted to marry while my friends had long ago married people they liked enough because they wanted kids and my husband cheated. Those friends are still married. Take from that what you will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sort of. We dated for a long time. I was ready to be married, and honestly, I did love him as a person. He's a great person. But I never had the PASSION for him. And that is what is still missing. I love sex, but I could take it or leave it with him.

And I was quite happy with him for a long time. But when the shit hit the fan -- and it did of course -- the weaknesses in our relationship came out. Like the lack of intimacy (I don't mean sex, I mean emotional intimacy). And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this person. He's a good husband. A good father. A good citizen. All that. But that chemistry? not there.

So, sure. It's fine. It's passable. Hindsight is 20-20.

^^^
This. Couldn't have described it better if I tried.

Do you have intellectual chemistry?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get the feeling a lot of the women here have done this, simply to attain the goal of having children. It's sad. It's. It what marriage should be. Call me crazy, but I think you should adore and be crazy about your spouse. Children should come as an offshoot of that crazy love. The spouse shouldn't simply be a means to an end.

See, here is the thing, it is not sad!

The IDEAL is to have a marriage born out of mutual true love and passion. The couple is made up of soulmates.
HOW many marriages is this really true for? Probably not very many.

The normal is marriage between two decent people who thought it was time and hence married and started the next chapter of their life.

The ones who remain single waiting for their ~soulmate~ aren't really heralded either. We make fun of spinsters or over the hill bachelors and pity them and gossip about them.

It is far far better to date and marry someone you like than wait and remain without a family waiting for an ideal.

I disagree. You just defined "settling." I would much rather be alone than live a halfhearted life with someone I'm barely attracted to and I feel is replaceable.

Thanks for sharing. stuff like this makes great education material for young boy's. after thousands off years wandering in the dark men have finally cracked the mystery. conclusion: women do not love men. they just manipulate and use men for the stuff we can give them. ohhh and if you wonder where all the good men have gone? they see and hear thing's like this and say. f this shit i'm out. i'm going my own way. MGTOW

Anonymous wrote:I get the feeling a lot of the women here have done this, simply to attain the goal of having children. It's sad. It's. It what marriage should be. Call me crazy, but I think you should adore and be crazy about your spouse. Children should come as an offshoot of that crazy love. The spouse shouldn't simply be a means to an end.

See, here is the thing, it is not sad!

The IDEAL is to have a marriage born out of mutual true love and passion. The couple is made up of soulmates.
HOW many marriages is this really true for? Probably not very many.

The normal is marriage between two decent people who thought it was time and hence married and started the next chapter of their life.

The ones who remain single waiting for their ~soulmate~ aren't really heralded either. We make fun of spinsters or over the hill bachelors and pity them and gossip about them.

It is far far better to date and marry someone you like than wait and remain without a family waiting for an ideal.