Nope. I just went to graduate and ended up 3rd in class. I even turned down law review. Just did what I wanted to do and it worked out.

I did not have to work super hard in undergrad to get high grades at a top public university. In law school, I got my first Cs. I was in the bottom half and confused most of my first year. I could not compete with people who had all the resources in the world, lawyers as parents and exclusively private school educations. I didn't even know what I didn't know. I also could not relate to many of my classmates and missed out on the information sharing that would have helped me to do better.

It's ok, I'm still a very good lawyer regardless of my 2.99 GPA at a T20 school.

Anonymous wrote:I just wanted to pass and ended up #1 with SCt clerkship.

I wasn't number 1 and didn't expect to be. I just did my very best and also ended up with a sct clerkship. Lots of my classmates went to more prestigious colleges than I or clearly were much smarter, but I worked harder than anyone I knew, and it paid off.

In the whole scheme of things, finishing number doesn't really mean much. Heck, sometimes it's not worth it to be #1.

The US is full of people who think they are the best. Every low to mid level MMA fighter thinks he is the best until he is knocked the hell out.

It's pretty clear that she would be better off putting more energy into her other issues.

I just wanted to pass and ended up #1 with SCt clerkship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people at least expect to land above median, even though half won't.

As someone who went to a very high ranked school, the biggest shock wasn't from the level of competition but from how opaque the whole process is. You get one grade per class and no feedback. That's it. It's hard to gauge how well you'll do because there's so few chances to practice beforehand. Even if you use old exams, your grade ultimately depends on how everyone else does, so it's tough to know whether your efforts are working.

It doesn't help that many law students are terrible human beings. Our school had a miniature scandal after someone leaked the law review's hidden cache of outlines and past exams. Then there's stories of people ripping the pages out of library books, setting off fire alarms the night before an exam, and stealing toner from all the printers so no one could print their outlines.

There was also a group of wealthy foreign students who paid for intense private tutoring. Not sure whether that worked out, though.

While I've been out a long time, I heard all these stories when I was in school - they seemed to involve Georgetown and GW more than anywhere else. As for a hidden cache of outlines and past exams, my law school had the past exams on file in the library. Outlines are great, but it's hard to learn the material from someone else's organization - you learn a tremendous amount putting the outline together in the first place. I learned a very solid strategy on how to take notes, study and outline from one of the few law school guides that was out when I went to law school. It worked very well for me (summa cum laude).

Agree on the outlines. The magic is in creating them. Using someone else's will get you at B but making your own may get you an A. I am not that brilliant or driven compared to my peers at law school but I was at the top of the curve due to systematic studying, copious use of study aids, and test taking skills (I even took a private class on how to take law school exams.) If you do all of this and know you have a kind of intelligence with quick processing/working memory then you can probably be fairly sure about being at least in top 25%.

I think the #1s in my class aimed to be #1 and actually chose their classes accordingly. (They tied for #1.) But I don't think many people believe that. I went in with no expectations and was pleasantly surprised to end up in top 2-3%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people at least expect to land above median, even though half won't.

As someone who went to a very high ranked school, the biggest shock wasn't from the level of competition but from how opaque the whole process is. You get one grade per class and no feedback. That's it. It's hard to gauge how well you'll do because there's so few chances to practice beforehand. Even if you use old exams, your grade ultimately depends on how everyone else does, so it's tough to know whether your efforts are working.

It doesn't help that many law students are terrible human beings. Our school had a miniature scandal after someone leaked the law review's hidden cache of outlines and past exams. Then there's stories of people ripping the pages out of library books, setting off fire alarms the night before an exam, and stealing toner from all the printers so no one could print their outlines.

There was also a group of wealthy foreign students who paid for intense private tutoring. Not sure whether that worked out, though.

A shock you say? This is what undergrad looks in other counties while American kids take a four year vacation.

+1. Was just about to write this myself. Went to school outside the US where 90% of my courses were a 40/60 breakdown: 40% midterm (either exam or paper) and 60% final (either exam or paper). Graded on a 70% bell curve. 400 people in a class, you study hard all semester, maybe stop by a prof's office once a semester, hope you do okay and then get your grade 2 months later. We had "reading week" where you spent 3-4 days doing catch up school work. Spent a solid 1-2 weeks in the library prior to exams. Every sunday everyone went to the library.

I couldn't believe what my US friends' college experience looked like, with the handholding and fake assignments and continuation of high school. When i went to law school in the US, I got a single B in my first semester (otherwise all As) and figured "when in rome" and i went to the prof's office a little pouty and he raised my grade on the spot to a B+. Perhaps the most ridiculous thing i've ever done, but it seems to be the game that everyone plays in this country.

Anonymous wrote:No way, but the fact that she is part of this generation where everyone gets an award and everyone gets high grades because mommy complains to the professor that Johnny has anxiety, I can see why she would think this.

Sounds like your complaint is with the (Boomer) adults handing out awards and the hypothetical (Boomer) parent complaining to the professor.

Thinking she will get an A might be entitlement. Thinking she will be #1 is ambition.

Anonymous wrote:Most people at least expect to land above median, even though half won't.

As someone who went to a very high ranked school, the biggest shock wasn't from the level of competition but from how opaque the whole process is. You get one grade per class and no feedback. That's it. It's hard to gauge how well you'll do because there's so few chances to practice beforehand. Even if you use old exams, your grade ultimately depends on how everyone else does, so it's tough to know whether your efforts are working.

It doesn't help that many law students are terrible human beings. Our school had a miniature scandal after someone leaked the law review's hidden cache of outlines and past exams. Then there's stories of people ripping the pages out of library books, setting off fire alarms the night before an exam, and stealing toner from all the printers so no one could print their outlines.

There was also a group of wealthy foreign students who paid for intense private tutoring. Not sure whether that worked out, though.

A shock you say? This is what undergrad looks in other counties while American kids take a four year vacation.

I went into law school with the intention of graduating. I ended up top 20% and have done just fine as an attorney with that ranking. I'm not a partner in BigLaw, but have an in house job that I love and make more than enough for a comfortable lifestyle.

Anonymous wrote:Most people at least expect to land above median, even though half won't.

As someone who went to a very high ranked school, the biggest shock wasn't from the level of competition but from how opaque the whole process is. You get one grade per class and no feedback. That's it. It's hard to gauge how well you'll do because there's so few chances to practice beforehand. Even if you use old exams, your grade ultimately depends on how everyone else does, so it's tough to know whether your efforts are working.

It doesn't help that many law students are terrible human beings. Our school had a miniature scandal after someone leaked the law review's hidden cache of outlines and past exams. Then there's stories of people ripping the pages out of library books, setting off fire alarms the night before an exam, and stealing toner from all the printers so no one could print their outlines.

There was also a group of wealthy foreign students who paid for intense private tutoring. Not sure whether that worked out, though.

This.

Anonymous wrote:Most people at least expect to land above median, even though half won't.

As someone who went to a very high ranked school, the biggest shock wasn't from the level of competition but from how opaque the whole process is. You get one grade per class and no feedback. That's it. It's hard to gauge how well you'll do because there's so few chances to practice beforehand. Even if you use old exams, your grade ultimately depends on how everyone else does, so it's tough to know whether your efforts are working.

It doesn't help that many law students are terrible human beings. Our school had a miniature scandal after someone leaked the law review's hidden cache of outlines and past exams. Then there's stories of people ripping the pages out of library books, setting off fire alarms the night before an exam, and stealing toner from all the printers so no one could print their outlines.

There was also a group of wealthy foreign students who paid for intense private tutoring. Not sure whether that worked out, though.

While I've been out a long time, I heard all these stories when I was in school - they seemed to involve Georgetown and GW more than anywhere else. As for a hidden cache of outlines and past exams, my law school had the past exams on file in the library. Outlines are great, but it's hard to learn the material from someone else's organization - you learn a tremendous amount putting the outline together in the first place. I learned a very solid strategy on how to take notes, study and outline from one of the few law school guides that was out when I went to law school. It worked very well for me (summa cum laude).

No, I didn't, but ended up in the top 5% anyway. It's important to remember that it's a marathon, not a sprint - but you should never take your eye off the finish line. If that means you're in the library instead of the bar on a Friday or Saturday night, then so be it. Law school is only 3 years, but where you go and how you do will follow you around for the rest of your life. Yes, there are exceptions - people with family connections, highly-gregarious individuals, etc... but for the most part how you do in law school and in your career is up to you.

Most people at least expect to land above median, even though half won't.

As someone who went to a very high ranked school, the biggest shock wasn't from the level of competition but from how opaque the whole process is. You get one grade per class and no feedback. That's it. It's hard to gauge how well you'll do because there's so few chances to practice beforehand. Even if you use old exams, your grade ultimately depends on how everyone else does, so it's tough to know whether your efforts are working.

It doesn't help that many law students are terrible human beings. Our school had a miniature scandal after someone leaked the law review's hidden cache of outlines and past exams. Then there's stories of people ripping the pages out of library books, setting off fire alarms the night before an exam, and stealing toner from all the printers so no one could print their outlines.

There was also a group of wealthy foreign students who paid for intense private tutoring. Not sure whether that worked out, though.