Anonymous
05/07/2017 10:44
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I beleive that a significant percentage of marriages end for reasons that were apparent on some level before marriage but were minimized, ignored, or thought to be something that handled, made better, or worked out. You see it all the time in posts here and in this thread itself - he drank a little too much, he smoked weed but told me he would quit when we had kids, he had a temper, he lacked ambition, he had too much ambition and was a workaholic, he spent too much time with his family, he preferred hanging with his friends over me, he had credit issues, he was bad with money, he didn't want kids and I did, he wanted kids and I didn't, and on and on and on. Always remember the little things before marriage become the BIG things after marriage.
As my father said, "the signs are always there, it's whether or not you want to see them".
Sure, but nobody is perfect--everyone has some "signs" that could be warnings in retrospect. I think people overestimate how well they can predict what people will be like in the future and underestimate how much people change over time and how circumstances can change people.
I have good friends who were seemingly happily married for many years and divorced. My friend talks now about their the warning signs, but there were many years when they outwardly seemed very happy (and I spent a ton of time with them). I'm not saying it isn't true, but people pick and choose to build their narrative, and it changes as current circumstances change.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 10:40
Subject: Re:Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DW had body image issues from early on. Never could be comfortable in her own skin. Sex became more and more one sided, I always seemed to do all the work. If she can't manage her own orgasms, run.
What do you mean? That it is not your job to make her orgasm?
Is it your job to make him orgasm?
Anonymous
05/07/2017 10:36
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
Anonymous wrote:Not divorced (yet) but separating late this summer - trial separation, so we'll see what happens.
Definite red flags on both ends for us, but we were headstrong and in lust and proceeded without caution (in and of itself a red flag). We were both in dissolving relationships when we got together (red flag). Engaged and living together within a year (red flag, although I didn't think so at the time because we had dated as teens and thought we knew each other. Ha! Making out in the park and going to the movies does not count as real relationship history, I have since learned.)
My husband is critical and self-righteous, which made him fun to talk politics with - not as fun when we're having an argument. He's really dry and wry and clever, which again is fun in a casual context but is less so when I'm the butt of the joke.
I knew he had cheated on previous partners, had struggled with substance abuse, and had treated previous partners poorly. Like all good codependents, though, I thought he would *magically* change with me because I was *the one.*
There's no full unraveling here - we have children together and will thus be connected forever (and even after we're gone). I do like him, very much, but recognize that we came into the relationship each with a TON of unresolved baggage. We're separating and I really don't know what the future holds. But red flags? Yeah, there were a ton, all of which I chose to ignore.
Not to hijack the thread, but you seem articulate and your DH probably is also. So if I am reading this correctly you dated, broke up, went out with others, and then probably saw each other as safe harbors so there is a long history. We all have baggage and I hope the two of you seek counseling and some distance puts things in perspective where maybe you both realize you are not perfect people and the marriage will never be perfect, but with the kids and your history there is enough to have a marriage that despite its flaws is worth keeping.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 10:32
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
Anonymous wrote:I beleive that a significant percentage of marriages end for reasons that were apparent on some level before marriage but were minimized, ignored, or thought to be something that handled, made better, or worked out. You see it all the time in posts here and in this thread itself - he drank a little too much, he smoked weed but told me he would quit when we had kids, he had a temper, he lacked ambition, he had too much ambition and was a workaholic, he spent too much time with his family, he preferred hanging with his friends over me, he had credit issues, he was bad with money, he didn't want kids and I did, he wanted kids and I didn't, and on and on and on. Always remember the little things before marriage become the BIG things after marriage.
As my father said, "the signs are always there, it's whether or not you want to see them".
Anonymous
05/07/2017 09:50
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
Not divorced (yet) but separating late this summer - trial separation, so we'll see what happens.
Definite red flags on both ends for us, but we were headstrong and in lust and proceeded without caution (in and of itself a red flag). We were both in dissolving relationships when we got together (red flag). Engaged and living together within a year (red flag, although I didn't think so at the time because we had dated as teens and thought we knew each other. Ha! Making out in the park and going to the movies does not count as real relationship history, I have since learned.)
My husband is critical and self-righteous, which made him fun to talk politics with - not as fun when we're having an argument. He's really dry and wry and clever, which again is fun in a casual context but is less so when I'm the butt of the joke.
I knew he had cheated on previous partners, had struggled with substance abuse, and had treated previous partners poorly. Like all good codependents, though, I thought he would *magically* change with me because I was *the one.*
There's no full unraveling here - we have children together and will thus be connected forever (and even after we're gone). I do like him, very much, but recognize that we came into the relationship each with a TON of unresolved baggage. We're separating and I really don't know what the future holds. But red flags? Yeah, there were a ton, all of which I chose to ignore.
Definite red flags on both ends for us, but we were headstrong and in lust and proceeded without caution (in and of itself a red flag). We were both in dissolving relationships when we got together (red flag). Engaged and living together within a year (red flag, although I didn't think so at the time because we had dated as teens and thought we knew each other. Ha! Making out in the park and going to the movies does not count as real relationship history, I have since learned.)
My husband is critical and self-righteous, which made him fun to talk politics with - not as fun when we're having an argument. He's really dry and wry and clever, which again is fun in a casual context but is less so when I'm the butt of the joke.
I knew he had cheated on previous partners, had struggled with substance abuse, and had treated previous partners poorly. Like all good codependents, though, I thought he would *magically* change with me because I was *the one.*
There's no full unraveling here - we have children together and will thus be connected forever (and even after we're gone). I do like him, very much, but recognize that we came into the relationship each with a TON of unresolved baggage. We're separating and I really don't know what the future holds. But red flags? Yeah, there were a ton, all of which I chose to ignore.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 09:28
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
Anonymous wrote:It is easy to see red flags in retrospect. This is like asking me as a special needs mom "What was a red flag?" And I would say, she wasn't walking or talking at 12 months. But your child who wasnt walking and talking at 15 months was just fine. So there is no formula here.
Totally agree. My XH cheated on me in egregious fashion and everyone was beyond shocked. There were times in the beginning he could be a little lazy or selfish, but really no worse than all the other husbands I know that stay faithful, and he had more good qualities than them too. Try to make good decisions but you really can't ensure something bad won't happen. The most important thing? I would say to look for is reciprocity. I used to say to my X, it's always the Tom show! (Not his real name) but we would laugh about it. His dumb needs came first, and it didn't seem nefarious at the time. Sort of the way you would deal with a younger sibling's indulgent behavior. Like this is our family, we all have our quirks. He does love me he does care about me it's OK he just likes to be comfortable and wants what he wants whatever. Never again. I will be adored by my next husband and never put my own needs last.
Wonderful marriages are out there. Best of luck OP.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 08:47
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
I had several long term relationships before DH. I would say no obvious red flags in our relationship, but he did tell me his mom was an alcoholic who had been in rehab several times as he was growing up. It was clear when he spoke about it that this was something that he still had a fair amount of anger about. Met his parents (who were still married) after we were engaged.
Had I had a deeper understanding of alcoholism, I would have understood the entrenched multi-generational dysfunctional dynamic and multi-generational mental illness it signified.
Mental illness and pre-alcoholism and substance misuse by my DH torched our relationship, and my kids life. I'm sad I wasn't knowledgeable about these issues to avoid the marriage, but I'm glad I at least learned quickly and walked away before full-blown alcoholism. Our split was also probably the wake-up call exDH needed to get mental illness treatment.
Had I had a deeper understanding of alcoholism, I would have understood the entrenched multi-generational dysfunctional dynamic and multi-generational mental illness it signified.
Mental illness and pre-alcoholism and substance misuse by my DH torched our relationship, and my kids life. I'm sad I wasn't knowledgeable about these issues to avoid the marriage, but I'm glad I at least learned quickly and walked away before full-blown alcoholism. Our split was also probably the wake-up call exDH needed to get mental illness treatment.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 08:30
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
No magic formula, but take a good hard look at his family dynamics and his history (school, work, relationship). My ex is really good at blaming others (poor self understanding), so I bought into his explanations about why he switched colleges, majors, jobs, etc. Turns out that should have been a huge red flag that nothing would make him happy, that he would always resent expectations of him, and that he would never stick with anything. (Undiagnosed ADHD, similar to others who have posted.)
Also, really dysfunctional family, but since they were upper middle class and educated they were able to put a nice veneer over it. I found out that you really need to ask direct questions like "how did your parents handle finances, deal with conflict, etc." Because not everyone is going to volunteer the information if their family is screwed up.
Also, really dysfunctional family, but since they were upper middle class and educated they were able to put a nice veneer over it. I found out that you really need to ask direct questions like "how did your parents handle finances, deal with conflict, etc." Because not everyone is going to volunteer the information if their family is screwed up.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 08:05
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
I beleive that a significant percentage of marriages end for reasons that were apparent on some level before marriage but were minimized, ignored, or thought to be something that handled, made better, or worked out. You see it all the time in posts here and in this thread itself - he drank a little too much, he smoked weed but told me he would quit when we had kids, he had a temper, he lacked ambition, he had too much ambition and was a workaholic, he spent too much time with his family, he preferred hanging with his friends over me, he had credit issues, he was bad with money, he didn't want kids and I did, he wanted kids and I didn't, and on and on and on. Always remember the little things before marriage become the BIG things after marriage.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 07:44
Subject: Re:Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DW had body image issues from early on. Never could be comfortable in her own skin. Sex became more and more one sided, I always seemed to do all the work. If she can't manage her own orgasms, run.
What do you mean? That it is not your job to make her orgasm?
I couldn't make her do anything, it was all in her head. and looking back was a big red flag, if she is not comfortable in her own body, run, it only gets worse.
+1. You can be attentive and creative, but ultimately you have to have a partner who wants to be along for the ride. If you don't, the sex isn't going to be any good. Red flag in my case should have been when my future wife told me she didn't masturbate because she wasn't very good at it.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 07:38
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
Anonymous wrote:Cause of divorce: he was more interested in / committed to his work than he was to our marriage and after a few pretty egregious demonstrations of that, I left him.
Married five years. Together for five prior to marriage.
Yes. Ex has always had a tendency to to become immersed in a new project or adventure. For the first couple years of our relationship, that was me. Then we got married and moved here and it became his work. He wanted to have a baby, so we did and for a while, she was the new thing. Then it went back to being work because he got a new job. Since we split another five years ago, I've seen him move to another new job and a couple new girlfriends and it's been the same pattern. I just didn't really notice it at first because I was the thing he was excited for.
He wasn't my first relationship, but he was my first very serious long term relationship. My previous longer relationships were not more than 2 years. I'd say that I had experience, but marrying someone and maintaining a connection with them through life's ups and downs is different.
My advice to you would be to pick someone you like being around, who you have a connection with and who shares your priorities in life. You can't always see someone's flaws if you haven't been with them a while. In my experience, some major character issues take a while to emerge.
Agree. Some red flags emerge when the relationship or person is truly tested. Then you'll know if you have a good life partner or not.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 07:36
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
It is easy to see red flags in retrospect. This is like asking me as a special needs mom "What was a red flag?" And I would say, she wasn't walking or talking at 12 months. But your child who wasnt walking and talking at 15 months was just fine. So there is no formula here.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 07:31
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
In the beg: he was indecisive, people pleaser, Workaholic, poor communication skills/passive aggressive outbursts
Those continued but he turned out to be a slob (once he owned more than 5 shirts), clueless father to our children, and unable to maintain a house, appliances, vehicles, etc. no organizational skills so constantly missing deadlines for bills, sign ups, trips. Unable to count on him. He even went abroad w o his passport and got stuck. Just clueless in the life skills department.
Diagnosed with ADHd too late to developer organizational systems for life, just like his brothers and father and fathers. But also way too sheltered while growing up so never learned how spouses interact, how to parent children or how to take care of things or peoples Le. On a typical weekend I was asked "what should we do today" like 20 times, yet if told him stuff to do it wouldn't get done.
Those continued but he turned out to be a slob (once he owned more than 5 shirts), clueless father to our children, and unable to maintain a house, appliances, vehicles, etc. no organizational skills so constantly missing deadlines for bills, sign ups, trips. Unable to count on him. He even went abroad w o his passport and got stuck. Just clueless in the life skills department.
Diagnosed with ADHd too late to developer organizational systems for life, just like his brothers and father and fathers. But also way too sheltered while growing up so never learned how spouses interact, how to parent children or how to take care of things or peoples Le. On a typical weekend I was asked "what should we do today" like 20 times, yet if told him stuff to do it wouldn't get done.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 06:50
Subject: Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
When we were engaged, He and I were at a concert sitting on the lawn. Someone grabbed me inappropriately. He stepped up and decked the guy, breaking his nose. That freaked me out. But I did not leave him. Totally freaked me out on two levels: I did not expect someone to grab my boob, and I did not expect my then fiancé to be violent. I was wondering what to expect in the future.
20 years later, we are still married. He has not had any other violent outbursts. He was just protecting me. Sometimes things are as they appear.
20 years later, we are still married. He has not had any other violent outbursts. He was just protecting me. Sometimes things are as they appear.
Anonymous
05/07/2017 02:04
Subject: Re:Divorcees - any red flags from the beginning?
First his friends were a tight group with wives and girlfriends coming second.Then, his dysfunctional family came first as he watched them exclude his wife. She started spiraling into depression and he blamed it on her. Then he left her..