Anonymous
Post 04/18/2017 12:20     Subject: Re:Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Can't change the students


Of course you can change the way students feel about learning. It's being done in other parts of the country, including New York and DC. Takes a heavily involved parent community, resources, and creative teachers who care (and who are better paid).


Is this for real? No. Parental involvement is the #1 driver of school scores. If parents don't care, students won't either and there's very little teachers can do.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2017 12:18     Subject: Re:Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
That families had it together enough to pay for a year or two of private school. A huge barrier that cuts out unprepared kids from entry.

Immersion programs dont allow entry if you aren't fluent in the language of instruction, and if kids have trouble learning to read they are encouraged to move to a traditional school ...This cuts down on sped kids and on ESOL kids in the French immersion programs at least.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2017 12:17     Subject: Re:Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
Anonymous wrote:PGPS is very similar to DCPS

There are very few isolated high performing school districts

The rest of the area schools generally suck. People of means send their kids to privates

Michelle Rhee wouldn't change anything

What you need to do is have more of the people with means send their kids to the public schools

It's an SES thing that's the only way the schools will improve



Correct. Reform the school system enough to attract the middle class.
Anonymous
Post 04/18/2017 12:15     Subject: Re:Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
The reason many specialty schools are deemed acceptable isn't that they have a certain program. It is the selection process or barriers to entry that creates a more middle class cohort and stops entry to the program/unprepared kids from entering midyear or midprogram. Also kids who aren't doing well are often counseled out as not being a good fit. For example Montessori prek 3 is how you get into the Montessori schools but you need to provide transportation and it is only half day. That's a big barrier to entry and families that can swing that are a self selecting population. Entry in later years requires
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2017 11:38     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The parents are VERY involved at our PGCPS school.


I think OP is saying that schools like yours are the exception to the rule. Our school stats overall might look a lot better if we had more helicopter parenting when it comes to education.


True. But for a large portion of the population, parents are unable to be involved because they both work/work multiple jobs/have trouble communicating. I can tell you that at our school, parents of kids from lower income areas rarely go to school functions. Sometimes it's not a matter of wanting to, it's a matter of having the time and ability to. The same parents are always at the PTA meetings, school auctions, etc. and they are never the parents of kids who live in the nearby apartments.


See, by helicopter parenting i did not mean attending functions, auctions, etc. I'm talking about making sure homework is done, reading for 30 minutes every night, doing extra math or spelling practice on the weekends, making sure they check in with the child's teachers frequently and not just at parent teacher conference time. That's the kind of helicopter parenting we need. Forget the fancy and fun school activities (unless they are STEM related, or offer learning enrichment). I went public school, my mom was a single mom who worked two full time jobs, but boy was she a helicopter parent who stayed on top of her children. If there were concepts she did not understand and therefore could not reach, she contacted those who could help.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2017 22:39     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
Anonymous wrote:I would love a neighborhood school with test score from
5-7, but our pyramid is a 2. I'm having a hard time seeing that as a viable option.


Keep in mind that test scores don't take into account those students whose first language is not English.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2017 22:14     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
I would love a neighborhood school with test score from
5-7, but our pyramid is a 2. I'm having a hard time seeing that as a viable option.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2017 20:19     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The parents are VERY involved at our PGCPS school.


I think OP is saying that schools like yours are the exception to the rule. Our school stats overall might look a lot better if we had more helicopter parenting when it comes to education.


True. But for a large portion of the population, parents are unable to be involved because they both work/work multiple jobs/have trouble communicating. I can tell you that at our school, parents of kids from lower income areas rarely go to school functions. Sometimes it's not a matter of wanting to, it's a matter of having the time and ability to. The same parents are always at the PTA meetings, school auctions, etc. and they are never the parents of kids who live in the nearby apartments.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2017 19:52     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think if the specialty schools program was expanded, more middle class helicopter parents would put their kids in the county schools. People need some sort of incentive, like winning a "lottery" or knowing that the other parents in their program at least applied and made an effort.


I think this is true, but I wish it weren't because it only exacerbates the inequities. This school district is massive with some dismal schools and some great ones. But no one sees the gems unless they have the cache of a special program and that's a real shame. Some neighborhood schools are sadly getting overlooked. Some parents like the idea of a neighborhood school but are scared away by this very ingrained perception that the only way to make it in this county is in a specialty program. They don't even consider a neighborhood school for an instant. These are middle class helicopter parents who could make a huge difference in a school and use their muscle to make it better and promote the positives.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-specialty program. I just don't think it solves the bigger issue. To tackle the inequities and improve the reputation, the district as a whole needs to show it can educate all its students, not just those who get lucky enough to win the lottery or test TAG or whatever.


I mean, I think everyone probably agrees with this in theory. But the inequities in education have plagued our country for literally its entire 250 year history, and it's not gonna be solved miraculously any time soon.

Specialty and magnet programs are fairly unique to the south and were originally devised as a solution to segregation. People will naturally segregate themselves, even when schools are desegregated by law, and that phenomenon is quite clear here in Maryland. Specialty and magnet programs give kids the opportunity to transcend the fate of their neighborhoods and diversify schools.

They are NOT perfect. There are many problems. But school self-segregation has gotten worse nationwide over the past decade or two, and I really think it is due in part to the dismantling and loss of funding for magnet schools, and this focus on "neighborhood" schools. When I hear people talk about the importance of supporting their "neighborhood" schools, I hear code for segregation.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2017 18:38     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think if the specialty schools program was expanded, more middle class helicopter parents would put their kids in the county schools. People need some sort of incentive, like winning a "lottery" or knowing that the other parents in their program at least applied and made an effort.


I think this is true, but I wish it weren't because it only exacerbates the inequities. This school district is massive with some dismal schools and some great ones. But no one sees the gems unless they have the cache of a special program and that's a real shame. Some neighborhood schools are sadly getting overlooked. Some parents like the idea of a neighborhood school but are scared away by this very ingrained perception that the only way to make it in this county is in a specialty program. They don't even consider a neighborhood school for an instant. These are middle class helicopter parents who could make a huge difference in a school and use their muscle to make it better and promote the positives.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-specialty program. I just don't think it solves the bigger issue. To tackle the inequities and improve the reputation, the district as a whole needs to show it can educate all its students, not just those who get lucky enough to win the lottery or test TAG or whatever.


I am the person you responded to and I generally agree with you, but it is hard to send your kids to a neighborhood school when you know that all of the other middle class parents in your area have rejected it. For example, I visited my neighborhood school last year, which has good written reviews on great schools and generally tests at 5-7. Not bad, right? It has new computers and a new playground. But the building is incredibly old, with no landscaping. It just looks sad on the outside, and to a certain extent on the inside too. There's no PTA, it's Title I, and the counselor did not even know when kids can be tested for TAG. I know that half of the homes in our area are high-end, so why aren't any of those kids going to school there? I know in theory that nothing bad will happen to my kids by sending them there, but is that really how I want to start their education? No one wants to experiment on THEIR kids.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2017 18:29     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think if the specialty schools program was expanded, more middle class helicopter parents would put their kids in the county schools. People need some sort of incentive, like winning a "lottery" or knowing that the other parents in their program at least applied and made an effort.


I think this is true, but I wish it weren't because it only exacerbates the inequities. This school district is massive with some dismal schools and some great ones. But no one sees the gems unless they have the cache of a special program and that's a real shame. Some neighborhood schools are sadly getting overlooked. Some parents like the idea of a neighborhood school but are scared away by this very ingrained perception that the only way to make it in this county is in a specialty program. They don't even consider a neighborhood school for an instant. These are middle class helicopter parents who could make a huge difference in a school and use their muscle to make it better and promote the positives.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-specialty program. I just don't think it solves the bigger issue. To tackle the inequities and improve the reputation, the district as a whole needs to show it can educate all its students, not just those who get lucky enough to win the lottery or test TAG or whatever.


+1000

This is so true. The expansion of the specialty programs is really detrimental to our local schools. I understand the reasoning but I think county would really benefit from opening more middle school specialty programs and reducing (or at least stop expanding) elementary school ones. There are lots of great things happening at our local elementary schools. Just think of how much better it could be if we could get the helicopter parents to opt in to their local schools.



Maybe the lottery itself should be changed. Maybe "specialty" schools should be expanded, but should take 1/2 kids from the neighborhood, and 1/2 kids who get in through a lottery system. And then make more "neighborhood" schools "specialty" by introducing a focus for each school, whether it be language learning, or montessori, or STEM. What do you guys think?
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2017 18:00     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
You want private
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2017 17:53     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
Anonymous wrote:The parents are VERY involved at our PGCPS school.


I think OP is saying that schools like yours are the exception to the rule. Our school stats overall might look a lot better if we had more helicopter parenting when it comes to education.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2017 15:44     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
The parents are VERY involved at our PGCPS school.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2017 15:33     Subject: Big expensive houses, nice cars, clothes, golf... but schools suck. Would this help...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think if the specialty schools program was expanded, more middle class helicopter parents would put their kids in the county schools. People need some sort of incentive, like winning a "lottery" or knowing that the other parents in their program at least applied and made an effort.


I think this is true, but I wish it weren't because it only exacerbates the inequities. This school district is massive with some dismal schools and some great ones. But no one sees the gems unless they have the cache of a special program and that's a real shame. Some neighborhood schools are sadly getting overlooked. Some parents like the idea of a neighborhood school but are scared away by this very ingrained perception that the only way to make it in this county is in a specialty program. They don't even consider a neighborhood school for an instant. These are middle class helicopter parents who could make a huge difference in a school and use their muscle to make it better and promote the positives.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-specialty program. I just don't think it solves the bigger issue. To tackle the inequities and improve the reputation, the district as a whole needs to show it can educate all its students, not just those who get lucky enough to win the lottery or test TAG or whatever.


+1000

This is so true. The expansion of the specialty programs is really detrimental to our local schools. I understand the reasoning but I think county would really benefit from opening more middle school specialty programs and reducing (or at least stop expanding) elementary school ones. There are lots of great things happening at our local elementary schools. Just think of how much better it could be if we could get the helicopter parents to opt in to their local schools.