Anonymous
Post 02/27/2017 19:57     Subject: Re:School Torpedoed GBRS
Anonymous wrote:My DS Got in with NNAT-128,Cogat-123,GBRS-11,WISC-130


My kid was similar. CogNA 128 (with tight scatter on subtest scores), NNAT 128, GBRS 11. Rejected. In on appeal with a 132 WISC composite.
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2017 14:28     Subject: Re:School Torpedoed GBRS
My DS Got in with NNAT-128,Cogat-123,GBRS-11,WISC-130
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2017 13:46     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
An 11 GBRS and 127 test scores make a lot of sense.
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2017 12:10     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
OK, here is my annual GBRS rant. I have three kids. Here is why I think GBRS is nonsense:

Child 1 - In pool via ALL test scores. Truly an exceptionally smart kid. Had to appeal because he had a GBRS of 9. In on appeal after a 140+ WISC. Blossoming in AAP.
Child 2 - In pool via ALL test scores (though lower than his brother). Bright kid, but would do fine in either GE or APP. In first round, GBRS 9. Doing fine in AAP.
Child 3 - Not in pool via test scores. Amazingly average kid. Teacher begged us to refer. In first round, GBRS 16. Doing just fine in GE.

The short answer is to do the right thing for your child. Don't rely on the system, it works most of the time, but is a long way from perfect. I am sure that GBRS can be applied by some teachers fairly and meaningfully, but not all. For Child #1 above, when we asked her, she said the she was looking for gifted behaviors such as "being able to do 3 and 4 digit addition when I am teaching 2 digit addition". I asked if she knew that Child 1 could MULTIPLY two digit numbers in his head and give her the answer. She said, "Oh yes, he is faster than I am, but that isn't the gifted behavior that they told me to look for".
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2017 11:59     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Response for original poster: Thank you all for the comments. This was actually helpful feedback. We don't think our DD is exceptional. Really, we would be fine having her not be in the AAP. We viewed all her scores as having her being on the border and weren't sure if a referral was a good or bad idea. We called the teachers to ask for advice, but feel like they really were not helpful. We had hoped that could provide a bit more guidance given that they certainly know the program, education system, etc. much better than us parents. Just trying to figure out what is best for her. As parents, we often second guess ourselves--it isn't easy. The school is making a very strong push to have all the kids who qualify stay at the school for local Level IV services rather than go to the center. That was my only point about why I think they might be artificially keeping ALL kids GBRS scores lower. Appreciate the sanity check though. Sometimes we see things that aren't really there when we have our parent goggles on.


That still doesn't make any sense. Having low GBRS would make them not qualify for level IV services. Even for local level IV you have to get into AAP or be principal placed. But some schools have level IV classes with NO principal placements, which means all the kids in the local level IV class were center eligible.

Relax!! Calm down! If your child is meant to be in they will be. Get a WISC if you're worried and think she will do well. My child got an 8 GBRS and got in on the first round because his WISC was over 145. I didn't think the school was trying to suppress his intelligence. I think he is quiet and introvers and society and schools like highly verbal kids. Kids who are not highly verbal don't tend to get high GBRS scores. Such is life. People were underestimate my kid from now until eternity just based on how he presents and what society deems valuable and intelligent. Sounds like yours may be the same way. Get used to it. Life isn't fair.


I don't get it. There is nothing in what OP said that makes it seem like her kid is being underestimated. She told us her kid is nothing extraordinary. Presumably you got a WISC because you knew there was something more that wasn't being picked up by the testing. She's not refuting the testing...
Upon what statements from the op are you basing this comment?


I said "may" for starters and I'm basing it off the fact that her child like mine didn't do well on NNAT and CogAT. My son did worse, actually. But the WISC he knocked out the park and as I mentioned, he got an 8 GBRS. So her DD "may" be the same way in that her child will always be underestimated if she is quiet and doesn't seem to impress in the classroom and has test anxiety and only does ok on tests.
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2017 11:45     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Response for original poster: Thank you all for the comments. This was actually helpful feedback. We don't think our DD is exceptional. Really, we would be fine having her not be in the AAP. We viewed all her scores as having her being on the border and weren't sure if a referral was a good or bad idea. We called the teachers to ask for advice, but feel like they really were not helpful. We had hoped that could provide a bit more guidance given that they certainly know the program, education system, etc. much better than us parents. Just trying to figure out what is best for her. As parents, we often second guess ourselves--it isn't easy. The school is making a very strong push to have all the kids who qualify stay at the school for local Level IV services rather than go to the center. That was my only point about why I think they might be artificially keeping ALL kids GBRS scores lower. Appreciate the sanity check though. Sometimes we see things that aren't really there when we have our parent goggles on.


That still doesn't make any sense. Having low GBRS would make them not qualify for level IV services. Even for local level IV you have to get into AAP or be principal placed. But some schools have level IV classes with NO principal placements, which means all the kids in the local level IV class were center eligible.

Relax!! Calm down! If your child is meant to be in they will be. Get a WISC if you're worried and think she will do well. My child got an 8 GBRS and got in on the first round because his WISC was over 145. I didn't think the school was trying to suppress his intelligence. I think he is quiet and introvers and society and schools like highly verbal kids. Kids who are not highly verbal don't tend to get high GBRS scores. Such is life. People were underestimate my kid from now until eternity just based on how he presents and what society deems valuable and intelligent. Sounds like yours may be the same way. Get used to it. Life isn't fair.


Upon what statements from the op are you basing this comment?


I said "may" for starters and I'm basing it off the fact that her child like mine didn't do well on NNAT and CogAT. My son did worse, actually. But the WISC he knocked out the park and as I mentioned, he got an 8 GBRS. So her DD "may" be the same way in that her child will always be underestimated if she is quiet and doesn't seem to impress in the classroom and has test anxiety and only does ok on tests.
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2017 03:42     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Response for original poster: Thank you all for the comments. This was actually helpful feedback. We don't think our DD is exceptional. Really, we would be fine having her not be in the AAP. We viewed all her scores as having her being on the border and weren't sure if a referral was a good or bad idea. We called the teachers to ask for advice, but feel like they really were not helpful. We had hoped that could provide a bit more guidance given that they certainly know the program, education system, etc. much better than us parents. Just trying to figure out what is best for her. As parents, we often second guess ourselves--it isn't easy. The school is making a very strong push to have all the kids who qualify stay at the school for local Level IV services rather than go to the center. That was my only point about why I think they might be artificially keeping ALL kids GBRS scores lower. Appreciate the sanity check though. Sometimes we see things that aren't really there when we have our parent goggles on.


That still doesn't make any sense. Having low GBRS would make them not qualify for level IV services. Even for local level IV you have to get into AAP or be principal placed. But some schools have level IV classes with NO principal placements, which means all the kids in the local level IV class were center eligible.

Relax!! Calm down! If your child is meant to be in they will be. Get a WISC if you're worried and think she will do well. My child got an 8 GBRS and got in on the first round because his WISC was over 145. I didn't think the school was trying to suppress his intelligence. I think he is quiet and introvers and society and schools like highly verbal kids. Kids who are not highly verbal don't tend to get high GBRS scores. Such is life. People were underestimate my kid from now until eternity just based on how he presents and what society deems valuable and intelligent. Sounds like yours may be the same way. Get used to it. Life isn't fair.


Upon what statements from the op are you basing this comment?
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2017 21:11     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Anonymous wrote:Response for original poster: Thank you all for the comments. This was actually helpful feedback. We don't think our DD is exceptional. Really, we would be fine having her not be in the AAP. We viewed all her scores as having her being on the border and weren't sure if a referral was a good or bad idea. We called the teachers to ask for advice, but feel like they really were not helpful. We had hoped that could provide a bit more guidance given that they certainly know the program, education system, etc. much better than us parents. Just trying to figure out what is best for her. As parents, we often second guess ourselves--it isn't easy. The school is making a very strong push to have all the kids who qualify stay at the school for local Level IV services rather than go to the center. That was my only point about why I think they might be artificially keeping ALL kids GBRS scores lower. Appreciate the sanity check though. Sometimes we see things that aren't really there when we have our parent goggles on.


That still doesn't make any sense. Having low GBRS would make them not qualify for level IV services. Even for local level IV you have to get into AAP or be principal placed. But some schools have level IV classes with NO principal placements, which means all the kids in the local level IV class were center eligible.

Relax!! Calm down! If your child is meant to be in they will be. Get a WISC if you're worried and think she will do well. My child got an 8 GBRS and got in on the first round because his WISC was over 145. I didn't think the school was trying to suppress his intelligence. I think he is quiet and introvers and society and schools like highly verbal kids. Kids who are not highly verbal don't tend to get high GBRS scores. Such is life. People were underestimate my kid from now until eternity just based on how he presents and what society deems valuable and intelligent. Sounds like yours may be the same way. Get used to it. Life isn't fair.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2017 15:52     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry to hijack but - we are new to this process. Do a lot of people ask to see the GBRS? Have teachers at all schools completed them?


There is another thread on this board very recently about this - I think it is entitled are you requesting to see the packet or something like that.


This. Just email the AART and ask if you can have a copy of the referral packet. Lots of parents do, and it is good information to have on file. Both of my kids were tested for ADHD in late ES, and the GBRS form was part of the info we sent to the psychologist when they did educational testing, along with report cards, CogAT, NNAT, SOL scores, etc. It's part of your kid's academic record and useful information for you to review. The school has no problem giving it to you. Unless you are OP and get all upset about what you find and push back at the teacher. But if you can review it and accept it as done a deal, even if you think it is unfair, then you should get it and file it away.


I am the OP of the other thread that asked if others were asking to see the AAP packet. I just emailed our AART. I'm specifically interested in the GBRS. My DS was in pool with 99th percentile COGAT and 90th percentile NNAT. I would actually be satisfied with a GBRS of 11. From what I read on here, with DS's test scores and 4's on his report cards, I feel he would get into AAP with a GBRS of 11. Of course a higher GBRS of 14 or 15, would be better but I would be satisfied with an 11.

OP, I don't think your teacher/school is trying to sabotage your child's chances of getting into AAP. You could be upset with a GBRS of 6 but not 11. I think 11 is pretty damn good.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2017 12:06     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Sorry to hijack but - we are new to this process. Do a lot of people ask to see the GBRS? Have teachers at all schools completed them?


There is another thread on this board very recently about this - I think it is entitled are you requesting to see the packet or something like that.


This. Just email the AART and ask if you can have a copy of the referral packet. Lots of parents do, and it is good information to have on file. Both of my kids were tested for ADHD in late ES, and the GBRS form was part of the info we sent to the psychologist when they did educational testing, along with report cards, CogAT, NNAT, SOL scores, etc. It's part of your kid's academic record and useful information for you to review. The school has no problem giving it to you. Unless you are OP and get all upset about what you find and push back at the teacher. But if you can review it and accept it as done a deal, even if you think it is unfair, then you should get it and file it away.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2017 12:01     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Calm down OP. A 6 is torpedoed. An 11 is above average for FCPS, and probably slightly below average for AAP admissions. If your kid isn't in pool, it probably isn't high enough to get him in. But if the CogAT and NNAT were in the 130s, it wouldn't keep him out, either.

Since the CogAT and NNAT are also above average for FCPS, but below average for AAP, maybe it's time for you to consider whether you have an above average, but not AAP kid? Rather than blaming the teacher. The CogAT, NNAT and GBRS are consistent with each other. Maybe they are accurate?

Also, teachers tanking the GBRS to keep kids in the school is not a thing. If there is an lliv program, it doesn't even make sense. Because then you end up with a kid who stays at the school but can't fill out the LLIV program.

This is not some huge conspiracy. You have an above average but not AAP kid.

Anonymous
Post 02/25/2017 20:14     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Response for original poster: Thank you all for the comments. This was actually helpful feedback. We don't think our DD is exceptional. Really, we would be fine having her not be in the AAP. We viewed all her scores as having her being on the border and weren't sure if a referral was a good or bad idea. We called the teachers to ask for advice, but feel like they really were not helpful. We had hoped that could provide a bit more guidance given that they certainly know the program, education system, etc. much better than us parents. Just trying to figure out what is best for her. As parents, we often second guess ourselves--it isn't easy. The school is making a very strong push to have all the kids who qualify stay at the school for local Level IV services rather than go to the center. That was my only point about why I think they might be artificially keeping ALL kids GBRS scores lower. Appreciate the sanity check though. Sometimes we see things that aren't really there when we have our parent goggles on.


You seem to be backpeddling a little bit now. Saying, "I feel like this was done on purpose to have less smart kids leave the school and go to a center" doesn't match with what you just said in bold. You seem to be thinking that kids who are less smart than your kid will get higher GBRS without deserving it, only so the school can ensure its best and brightest (aka: your kid) remains at the local level. The scores were borderline. The GBRS is actually pretty high considering the scores. I think you have less than a 50% chance but a chance, still.


I think the OP meant that the school wanted *fewer* smart kids to leave the school for the center, not that the school wants to send kids to the center who are not as smart.

American English might not be the OP's first language since s/he refers to having the child "sit" for the WISC, a phrase not commonly used in the US.


I would think someone who uses the phrase "School torpedoed GBRS" has a pretty good grasp of English. It also does not coincide wit her later claim she doesn't think her kid is that exceptional. The truth is that the school gave a GBRS that seems pretty good for a kid with those scores and whose own parent thinks her daughter isn't exceptional. You just don't like that the accurate picture of your kid will likely preclude her admission.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2017 18:47     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Anonymous wrote:Sorry to hijack but - we are new to this process. Do a lot of people ask to see the GBRS? Have teachers at all schools completed them?


There is another thread on this board very recently about this - I think it is entitled are you requesting to see the packet or something like that.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2017 18:46     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Sorry to hijack but - we are new to this process. Do a lot of people ask to see the GBRS? Have teachers at all schools completed them?
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2017 12:43     Subject: School Torpedoed GBRS
Anonymous wrote:Response for original poster: Thank you all for the comments. This was actually helpful feedback. We don't think our DD is exceptional. Really, we would be fine having her not be in the AAP. We viewed all her scores as having her being on the border and weren't sure if a referral was a good or bad idea. We called the teachers to ask for advice, but feel like they really were not helpful. We had hoped that could provide a bit more guidance given that they certainly know the program, education system, etc. much better than us parents. Just trying to figure out what is best for her. As parents, we often second guess ourselves--it isn't easy. The school is making a very strong push to have all the kids who qualify stay at the school for local Level IV services rather than go to the center. That was my only point about why I think they might be artificially keeping ALL kids GBRS scores lower. Appreciate the sanity check though. Sometimes we see things that aren't really there when we have our parent goggles on.


The teachers are really not supposed to say too much, and definitely aren't allowed to give advice or verbiage to help a student qualify for AAP. There's a fine line they have to walk and they could get in trouble for appearing to show bias.

Also, it wouldn't make sense for them to give her a low GBRS in an attempt to keep her at the school and have her in their LLIV program, because she would not get into AAP at all. She'd stay at the school but in Gen Ed.