What's the consensus on how long an experienced attorney (e.g. Worked as attorney 5 of past 15 years but then moved into program management role) at a new job? Is 10-12 months exceptionally long to come up to speed.

R U OP's mother here to defend? A new hire at my agency came with such hubris and incompetence that I wanted to ask. It is a very bad combination when you work in a collaborative environment and are dependent on co-workers to come up to speed.

Anonymous wrote:OP also consider how you have been treating your co-workers since you started working there. Did you treat them with respect and perhaps a little humility as you leaned o. Them to bring you up to speed? Or, did you get super competitive with them and tell them "I know" everytime they tried to steer you in the right direction? Did you say negative things about your co-workers to new confidantes which eventually made their way back to your targeted co-workers? If so, maybe consider a fresh start and a new approach somewhere else.

You re a wack job. The OP doesn't come accross as the least bit arrogant. Sometimes it just doesn't worknout. No need assume that the OP is some arrogant douchebag.

Anonymous wrote:OP also consider how you have been treating your co-workers since you started working there. Did you treat them with respect and perhaps a little humility as you leaned o. Them to bring you up to speed? Or, did you get super competitive with them and tell them "I know" everytime they tried to steer you in the right direction? Did you say negative things about your co-workers to new confidantes which eventually made their way back to your targeted co-workers? If so, maybe consider a fresh start and a new approach somewhere else.

OP here. I didn't do those things at all. If anything, I've been too humble.

OP also consider how you have been treating your co-workers since you started working there. Did you treat them with respect and perhaps a little humility as you leaned o. Them to bring you up to speed? Or, did you get super competitive with them and tell them "I know" everytime they tried to steer you in the right direction? Did you say negative things about your co-workers to new confidantes which eventually made their way back to your targeted co-workers? If so, maybe consider a fresh start and a new approach somewhere else.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks all for your insight.

I particularly appreciated the reminder that I should feel good for having taken a chance on this job even if it doesn't pan out. I also appreciate the PP's point that sometimes new hires are isolated from key office players--I think some of that is happening here. I'm trying to take responsibility but also starting to resent how lousy the onboarding process was on their end too.

I'm realizing that, while I have definitely made mistakes, I was feeling unstable here even before I learned they were concerned with my performance. I'd already suspected that, when they hired me, they expected to need someone of my skillset more than they actually do. The loss of certain clients, some organizational changes, and the departure of key staff since I've been here have made it harder for me to find my place. In short, I think it could have been the right job for me, but might be the wrong time. So I think I'm officially in "hope for the best, plan for the worst" mode.

Absolutly! Think about how much you have learned. You are remarkable even if you aren't winning this one. People stick around at the most boring, unchallenging stagnant jobs their entire lives. Doing nothing of value, not growing, basically punching a clock, collecting a check and painting themselves in a corner they will never break out of. You rejected that by making a career shift. Depending on how old you are, i bet you have 25 more years to take chances and try new things. Just don't stop, never stop growing.

I think if you really think hard about how you want to spin this in future interviews you can really show your grit and work ethic. I'd much rather hire someone who stretches themselves, takes risks, is inteospective, and who learns from their experiences. Only one thingbto do whrn life throws you a curve ball. You gotta catch it and throw it back harder.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Currently managing 3 new hires. New hire A is awesome - caught on quickly, understands what needs to be done and is up on everything - great ideas and a ton of energy understands the new culture and best practices and has made a huge leap from her previous role to this one easily and efficiently. New hire B, is smart and does her job well but has isolated herself and hasn't tried to learn the culture of the department or worked on understanding what has been done, best practices currently in place etc. I like her personally but feel she could have done more to fit in and ask more questions not just go rogue on the department without checking in first. New Hire C is a fun and energetic personality who is not detail oriented and tends to be very impulsive but asks a ton of questions and always acknowledges when she has made a mistake but keeps on making them. Of the three new hires C was the one that was stretch to hire - so far she is the one I'm most worried about and see as the one that we will let go. So sometimes things just aren't a good fit - I would say have your options open, talk with your supervisor and try to work towards improving and understanding your role but also realize it might be the job for you.

I'm wondering how much of this is fitting into the department socially, navigating cliques and building relationships. I agree that these things are important, but can be more difficult for some people if they are in a different age bracket than the powerful cliques in a workplace, or are an introvert, of a different race/ethnicity, etc. Sometimes the cliques just won't accept a new person no matter what they try to do.

+ Excellent point. She might not be isolating as much as she is being isolated.

Normally I would agree with your observation, but I will add that the new hire never attends group/team meetings even though they are schedule bi-weekly and on the group calender. When reminded of the meetings she has always planned other meetings that could be moved. That is on her,not on us isolating her. When we moved meetings to accomodate her schedule she doesn't participate - even on topics that are in her field. We have held one on one meetings in an effort to ensure its not a matter of being intimidated by the group - she still after 6 months hasn't seemed to grasp the organization's mission, goals or created a strategy for her role - she is a assistant director with several under her so its important she has a plan to work with. I think in this case its a bad fit.

OP here. Thanks all for your insight.

I particularly appreciated the reminder that I should feel good for having taken a chance on this job even if it doesn't pan out. I also appreciate the PP's point that sometimes new hires are isolated from key office players--I think some of that is happening here. I'm trying to take responsibility but also starting to resent how lousy the onboarding process was on their end too.

I'm realizing that, while I have definitely made mistakes, I was feeling unstable here even before I learned they were concerned with my performance. I'd already suspected that, when they hired me, they expected to need someone of my skillset more than they actually do. The loss of certain clients, some organizational changes, and the departure of key staff since I've been here have made it harder for me to find my place. In short, I think it could have been the right job for me, but might be the wrong time. So I think I'm officially in "hope for the best, plan for the worst" mode.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Currently managing 3 new hires. New hire A is awesome - caught on quickly, understands what needs to be done and is up on everything - great ideas and a ton of energy understands the new culture and best practices and has made a huge leap from her previous role to this one easily and efficiently. New hire B, is smart and does her job well but has isolated herself and hasn't tried to learn the culture of the department or worked on understanding what has been done, best practices currently in place etc. I like her personally but feel she could have done more to fit in and ask more questions not just go rogue on the department without checking in first. New Hire C is a fun and energetic personality who is not detail oriented and tends to be very impulsive but asks a ton of questions and always acknowledges when she has made a mistake but keeps on making them. Of the three new hires C was the one that was stretch to hire - so far she is the one I'm most worried about and see as the one that we will let go. So sometimes things just aren't a good fit - I would say have your options open, talk with your supervisor and try to work towards improving and understanding your role but also realize it might be the job for you.

I'm wondering how much of this is fitting into the department socially, navigating cliques and building relationships. I agree that these things are important, but can be more difficult for some people if they are in a different age bracket than the powerful cliques in a workplace, or are an introvert, of a different race/ethnicity, etc. Sometimes the cliques just won't accept a new person no matter what they try to do.

+ Excellent point. She might not be isolating as much as she is being isolated.

Anonymous wrote:Currently managing 3 new hires. New hire A is awesome - caught on quickly, understands what needs to be done and is up on everything - great ideas and a ton of energy understands the new culture and best practices and has made a huge leap from her previous role to this one easily and efficiently. New hire B, is smart and does her job well but has isolated herself and hasn't tried to learn the culture of the department or worked on understanding what has been done, best practices currently in place etc. I like her personally but feel she could have done more to fit in and ask more questions not just go rogue on the department without checking in first. New Hire C is a fun and energetic personality who is not detail oriented and tends to be very impulsive but asks a ton of questions and always acknowledges when she has made a mistake but keeps on making them. Of the three new hires C was the one that was stretch to hire - so far she is the one I'm most worried about and see as the one that we will let go. So sometimes things just aren't a good fit - I would say have your options open, talk with your supervisor and try to work towards improving and understanding your role but also realize it might be the job for you.

I'm wondering how much of this is fitting into the department socially, navigating cliques and building relationships. I agree that these things are important, but can be more difficult for some people if they are in a different age bracket than the powerful cliques in a workplace, or are an introvert, of a different race/ethnicity, etc. Sometimes the cliques just won't accept a new person no matter what they try to do.

Currently managing 3 new hires. New hire A is awesome - caught on quickly, understands what needs to be done and is up on everything - great ideas and a ton of energy understands the new culture and best practices and has made a huge leap from her previous role to this one easily and efficiently. New hire B, is smart and does her job well but has isolated herself and hasn't tried to learn the culture of the department or worked on understanding what has been done, best practices currently in place etc. I like her personally but feel she could have done more to fit in and ask more questions not just go rogue on the department without checking in first. New Hire C is a fun and energetic personality who is not detail oriented and tends to be very impulsive but asks a ton of questions and always acknowledges when she has made a mistake but keeps on making them. Of the three new hires C was the one that was stretch to hire - so far she is the one I'm most worried about and see as the one that we will let go. So sometimes things just aren't a good fit - I would say have your options open, talk with your supervisor and try to work towards improving and understanding your role but also realize it might be the job for you.

Anonymous wrote:How long has it been? Everthing has a learning curve. There may be some who judge for not being a superstar out the gate, but you just have to ignore them.

+1 give yourself time. People forget and people leave. Don't even think about what someone else is thinking. It's not your problem. You have act like you are getting a fresh start. You get one every day. Capitalize on it. Focus on what you are doing right. Write down 3 things you did right or well every day. Why? It will work wonders for your self-confidence. No one at work is going to build you up; you've got to do that for yourself. I've seen people come back from awful setbacks at work. They never gave up and they let go of the setback. GL!

Anonymous wrote:Having managed disappointing new hires, I'd respect them more if they scheduled a check in meeting and said "I know I didn't hit the ground running on this project and I'm currently doing ABC to get up to speed. To develop XYZ set of skills I will also do 123. My timeline for this is LMNOP. are there additional things you recommend me doing?/other priorities to work on?"

I agree with this. I have also managed disappointing new hires. when someone can bring it up and say, "I don't think XY went the way I wanted it to. I've learned XYZ from that experience and plan to do ABC next time to solve the problem" it tends to indicate that they are capable of improvement (assuming the factors they are identifying are correct). I want to see that you understand what's not working and have ideas about how to do it differently and not that you're going to keep making it my problem.

OP, it's OK. You're new, so I'm sure you still have a "grace period" for mistakes.

Remember, everyone makes mistakes, everybody has those days. Nobody's perfect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to throw a wet blanket here, but the same thing happened to me at DOJ. I had been a star in my last job which helped me lateral into DOJ, which is rare. But I didn't hit the ground running. I tried everything to rectify the situation, including talking to my supervisor. I won EVERY case I argued except for one which I lost because we had a weak case just before I retired. But even winning every case did not change the first impression.

Well, they let you stay there until retirement, so it's fair to say you turned things around.

DOJ lateral, the fact you "won every case but one weak one" isn't on the face very impressive when you're working at DOJ. We don't know what kind of cases you were getting. At DOJ you have the full force and power of the United States government at your disposal. If you're bringing cases against a bunch of rinky-dink bodegas who are accused of tax fraud, then heck yeah I expect you to win. If you're trying to litigate against say a Goldman Sachs type who can match you motion for motion, then you're going to have a tougher time.

Somehow, I'm going to guess you wound up with more of the bodega-type cases, and that you flooded them with taxpayer dollars to make sure you got the "win". Thanks for your "public service" .

not the PP, just noting for the record that this person doesn't have the foggiest idea what goes on at DOJ for the most part.