OP here - thanks for all the comments, they've been very helpful.

It seems LJ is more academically intense, which to me makes sense since it AAP center designation probably makes the AAP curriculum a high priority and core mission.

I had heard Thoreau was building up their AAP offerings, maybe they aren't quite at the LJ level of intensity and maybe that's not their intention? Or are they quickly closing the gap?

We aren't too wrapped into the Vienna scene or and our daughter isn't team sports focused, and aren't necessarily going for the most intense AAP program possible. The social aspect of going to Madison and not knowing alot of the other kids is a big consideration for us assuming Thoreau has a perfectly fine AAP program. But what I'm hearing is it may be close but not quite there yet? She is very advanced in math and to be with other peers that are academically advanced would be good for her in our view.

Agreed. Obviously a hungover poster from last nights holiday party.

Ano[b wrote:nymous]I think, it is pretty well established that academic expectations are higher at LJ than thoreau. More homework, etc.
[/b]
Another way to put it, LJ needs the AAP kids to ace the SOL's to make up for the other kids. Thoreau, not so much.

The best way to put it: two 9th graders: my DD and one of her BFF's. DD commented on the first Q how surprising light the load was. Her BFF was overwhelmed with the home work.

The only difference in the schedules were the chosen language and the elective. Both taking 100% honors.

Only your firs line makes sense.

I think, it is pretty well established that academic expectations are higher at LJ than thoreau. More homework, etc.

Another way to put it, LJ needs the AAP kids to ace the SOL's to make up for the other kids. Thoreau, not so much.

The best way to put it: two 9th graders: my DD and one of her BFF's. DD commented on the first Q how surprising light the load was. Her BFF was overwhelmed with the home work.

The only difference in the schedules were the chosen language and the elective. Both taking 100% honors.

The AAp classes at Thoreau now are AAP, not Honors. Honors is separate.

What are the substantial differences in the programming? Can anyone articulate examples of how the program is different instead of these generalizations?

In particular, I'd love to know what the current 7th/8th graders are doing for writing assignments and for science in each school to actually compare the programs.

We were looking at this for for our D.C. (attended the open houses, talked to parents, teachers in the ES, administrators at he schools, etc) but ultimately moved to a different school zone the summer before MS

For many parents, Thoreau had a lot of pluses, like staying with the peer group from ES to Madison, being closer to their home, fewer minorities (yes, some parents think this is a plus), etc. but the hardcore academic AAP kids went to LJ. Almost everyone we talked too agreed the academics in LJ AAP were much more rigorous, while Thoreau taught more on an honors level than an AAP level. And if you have a kid who might want TJ, LJ is by far the better choice. Every year they sent a significant number of kids, while the number of kids from Thoreau remains too small to report..

That said, if you have a bright, but not brilliant or TJ bound kid, and most of their friends are going to Thoreau, there is no reason not to send them there. It's a very good school and an easier transition to HS socially.

And we no longer live in a Thoreau or LJ district, so no real dog in this fight.

Take what's said on this thread with a grain of salt. LJ boosters have more to lose if many of the AAP students go to Thoreau. Thoreau does fine either way.

Friend has kids in aap. Older DC went to LJMS. Friend said child was very motivated and extremely gifted. Younger DC went to TMS. Friend said younger one wasn't anything like older DC. Didn't want the workload.

It seems that the OP is looking for someone that has AAP kids at both LJ and Thoreau. That would be extremely rare: people that choose LJ of one tend to stay at LJ for the other kids. Similarly, for thoreau.

What I do know -- from talking to Madison teachers, is that the youth from LJ are better prepared. What is not clear though, is if the comparison is of all kids from Thoreau to LJ -- only AAP kids from LJ go to madison, so the comparison could be AAP kids are better prepared than gen ed kids. I do not know where the comparison is.

My DD when to LJ a few years ago (she is now in Madison). Most of the brighter kids in her class went to LJ (exception was from people that either were extremely xenophobic or people with strong ties to Vienna.

There will be orientation at each. Look and see. You do not need to make a decision today.

Anonymous wrote:I know a kid a Thoreau who is being cyber bullied at Thoreau in really terrible, scary ways way above and beyond typical middle school bullying and BS (threats of rape, posting x-rated porn on their social media account, telling them they have no friends, everyone hates them and they should leave,etc) to the point the admin police have become involved, based on a number and type of threats. The parents have tried working with the school, but the situation is getting worse not better, and they are looking at needing to pull their child out mid year. If that type of thing is going on on a widespread basis in middle schoo and the administration can't effectively address it, I would't send my kid there.

I have a child at TMS (not aap) and this is not "wide spread" -- thank god b/c it sounds absolutely horrible. I don't know anything about this issue. My child is more of a wall flower but has had no concerns with bullying. Thoreau is very welcoming and well-run. Lots of communication, lots of support for extras (pta) -- kind of "the land of milk and honey". But, I wouldn't put it past middle schoolers to bully someone. I am heart-broken to hear that any kid at TMS is being victimized as you describe. It is not typical, but it is cause for the administration to lay down the law and punish whoever is responsible. There is absolutely no excuse for anything like you describe. It does not represent TMS.

I know a kid a Thoreau who is being cyber bullied at Thoreau in really terrible, scary ways way above and beyond typical middle school bullying and BS (threats of rape, posting x-rated porn on their social media account, telling them they have no friends, everyone hates them and they should leave,etc) to the point the admin police have become involved, based on a number and type of threats. The parents have tried working with the school, but the situation is getting worse not better, and they are looking at needing to pull their child out mid year. If that type of thing is going on on a widespread basis in middle schoo and the administration can't effectively address it, I would't send my kid there.

Still unhelpful. What are the actual differences in programming? Thoreau has 4 classes of aap in the 7th grade. I can't believe it's a cohort issue or there are not high achieving kids in that program. Hard to say those 100 kids are not extremely motivated learners.

What are the seventh graders actually doing in both programs that is different?

Anonymous wrote:One is a proven program with all center teachers certified in gifted education; one is not.

One if for extremely motivated learners; one is not.

One sends a significant # of kids to the. The other does not send enough kids to TJ for the number to be reported.

One is a proven program with all center teachers certified in gifted education; one is not.

One if for extremely motivated learners; one is not.

Not the OP, but 15:09's comment is really unhelpful. Maybe that attitude alone is a good reason to not go to Luther.

What are the differences in the current programs, not years past? My kid is high achieving and I'm leaning Thoreau.