Two income trap is real folks.....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men do more than they ever have before. You think my dad or his dad did jack shit with the kids or dinner or housework? And, for the most part, modern men are putting in just as many hours at their jobs as dad or grandpa did.

Despite working just as hard at paying work and much harder with the kids and house, they get endless shit about not being good enough.

You can say it's because dad and grandpa had it far too easy. And maybe that's the case, but as a modern man, it's tough not to be resentful about doing more and getting shit upon for the effort.

And women aren't doing the exact same thing? Neither of my grandmas ever worked a day in their lives. They cleaned, cooked, raised kids and had dinner on the table at 5pm.

I'm slightly resentful that my DH's job is identical to the one my dad had when I was growing up (both have masters in engineering) but DH's job doesn't pay enough to support a family and my dad's did.

how is that the fault of a DH? and by the way, many, many more men feel incredibly stressed that they are not able to provide the type of lifestyle they would like to for their DWs and families. It's clearly not how the world works today, but men in my generation (and I'm mid 40s) were raised to be the provider. Some have accepted that women can be the main breadwinner but it is a very emasculating feeling, deep down, that we cannot live up to the "standards" of the former generation. I'm not saying that it's right, I'm just saying that it is. We are raising our children to expect to be equal partners - across the board - but that still doesn't help our current generation of mid-career men.

Same can be said for women though. Deep down we're upset that men can't live up to the standards and provide enough for us so that we can stay home and raise our children the way our Grandfathers did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men do more than they ever have before. You think my dad or his dad did jack shit with the kids or dinner or housework? And, for the most part, modern men are putting in just as many hours at their jobs as dad or grandpa did.

Despite working just as hard at paying work and much harder with the kids and house, they get endless shit about not being good enough.

You can say it's because dad and grandpa had it far too easy. And maybe that's the case, but as a modern man, it's tough not to be resentful about doing more and getting shit upon for the effort.

And women aren't doing the exact same thing? Neither of my grandmas ever worked a day in their lives. They cleaned, cooked, raised kids and had dinner on the table at 5pm.

I'm slightly resentful that my DH's job is identical to the one my dad had when I was growing up (both have masters in engineering) but DH's job doesn't pay enough to support a family and my dad's did.

All very good points. Men are having more chore/kid duties than ever before, and women are working outside of the house more than ever before. Our grandparents weren't running around busy like crazy people constantly when they were raising kids. With two working parents, things just stay crazy busy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men do more than they ever have before. You think my dad or his dad did jack shit with the kids or dinner or housework? And, for the most part, modern men are putting in just as many hours at their jobs as dad or grandpa did.

Despite working just as hard at paying work and much harder with the kids and house, they get endless shit about not being good enough.

You can say it's because dad and grandpa had it far too easy. And maybe that's the case, but as a modern man, it's tough not to be resentful about doing more and getting shit upon for the effort.

And women aren't doing the exact same thing? Neither of my grandmas ever worked a day in their lives. They cleaned, cooked, raised kids and had dinner on the table at 5pm.

I'm slightly resentful that my DH's job is identical to the one my dad had when I was growing up (both have masters in engineering) but DH's job doesn't pay enough to support a family and my dad's did.

Amen. My mother and grandmother never worked and parenting was way less hands-on back then. I refuse to feel bad for men having to make dinner or help with the kids, when women are now also out of the house 50 hours a week and bringing home the bacon, too. (That said, my DH is great, we're just both stretched thin).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men do more than they ever have before. You think my dad or his dad did jack shit with the kids or dinner or housework? And, for the most part, modern men are putting in just as many hours at their jobs as dad or grandpa did.

Despite working just as hard at paying work and much harder with the kids and house, they get endless shit about not being good enough.

You can say it's because dad and grandpa had it far too easy. And maybe that's the case, but as a modern man, it's tough not to be resentful about doing more and getting shit upon for the effort.

And women aren't doing the exact same thing? Neither of my grandmas ever worked a day in their lives. They cleaned, cooked, raised kids and had dinner on the table at 5pm.

I'm slightly resentful that my DH's job is identical to the one my dad had when I was growing up (both have masters in engineering) but DH's job doesn't pay enough to support a family and my dad's did.

how is that the fault of a DH? and by the way, many, many more men feel incredibly stressed that they are not able to provide the type of lifestyle they would like to for their DWs and families. It's clearly not how the world works today, but men in my generation (and I'm mid 40s) were raised to be the provider. Some have accepted that women can be the main breadwinner but it is a very emasculating feeling, deep down, that we cannot live up to the "standards" of the former generation. I'm not saying that it's right, I'm just saying that it is. We are raising our children to expect to be equal partners - across the board - but that still doesn't help our current generation of mid-career men.

DW's don't suck. That's why the DH's are in such a bad mood.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is happening. Do you want all of us married to husbands who do not suck to post threads in order to even out the balance.

I'll start. My husband does not suck. He got up this morning and went to work after staying up all night to take care of our sick child.

Same. I LOVE my dh.

But you have to admit that good men like this are rare. I can't believe the shit my friend's dh's pull. It's like men haven't evolved.

I also LOVE my DH, but it took over a decade to get to this point where we are both very happy in our relationship. We have decided - after trying many different arrangements over the years - that everyone in our family's life runs smoother if I am a SAHM and he is a workaholic. Thus, we have very clearly defined roles and no more resentment. As a woman who believes women can do most things better than men, this was a hard decision to come to. Giving up my very high status/paying career was very tough for me, but it was worth it in the end. No, we can't afford to live in a huge mansion and drive new BMWs, but we still have a very luxurious life, comparatively speaking, and do not have to make any sacrifices for lifestyle/retirement/college savings, primarily due to all of the years I put in before leaving the workforce. I think it's for the best. It is teaching our kids to learn to live within more normal means and not always think that money grows on trees. I have noticed that they are becoming much more aware of the value of money now that we are not blowing through it like we did when they were younger.

Even though I'm still working, this is the conclusion I've come to also. Yes it's anecdotal, but for me the happiest couples I know are by and large the ones where the wife is a SAHM. Clearly defined roles and everyone is happier. I know I'd be a lot happier if I wasn't working outside the home on top of all the things that have wound up being my responsibility anyway.

Anonymous wrote:Men do more than they ever have before. You think my dad or his dad did jack shit with the kids or dinner or housework? And, for the most part, modern men are putting in just as many hours at their jobs as dad or grandpa did.

Despite working just as hard at paying work and much harder with the kids and house, they get endless shit about not being good enough.

You can say it's because dad and grandpa had it far too easy. And maybe that's the case, but as a modern man, it's tough not to be resentful about doing more and getting shit upon for the effort.

My husband works fewer hours than my dad did, about 7 on an average week. Yet I make much more than my mother's zero income. You'd think between working fewer hours and having more money, he'd be motivated to do more at home and with kids. Instead, he surfs the net and drinks beer and generally gets fat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is happening. Do you want all of us married to husbands who do not suck to post threads in order to even out the balance.

I'll start. My husband does not suck. He got up this morning and went to work after staying up all night to take care of our sick child.

Same. I LOVE my dh.

But you have to admit that good men like this are rare. I can't believe the shit my friend's dh's pull. It's like men haven't evolved.

I also LOVE my DH, but it took over a decade to get to this point where we are both very happy in our relationship. We have decided - after trying many different arrangements over the years - that everyone in our family's life runs smoother if I am a SAHM and he is a workaholic. Thus, we have very clearly defined roles and no more resentment. As a woman who believes women can do most things better than men, this was a hard decision to come to. Giving up my very high status/paying career was very tough for me, but it was worth it in the end. No, we can't afford to live in a huge mansion and drive new BMWs, but we still have a very luxurious life, comparatively speaking, and do not have to make any sacrifices for lifestyle/retirement/college savings, primarily due to all of the years I put in before leaving the workforce. I think it's for the best. It is teaching our kids to learn to live within more normal means and not always think that money grows on trees. I have noticed that they are becoming much more aware of the value of money now that we are not blowing through it like we did when they were younger.

You're teaching your children that work is only for making money, and not for exercising your brain and have a source of power independent of your DH. No thanks.

Anonymous wrote:Women have learned to do a double shift and balance everything (kids, house, work) themselves. Men haven't picked up the slack from having a working wife and women are getting sick of it.

This. In my case it's even worse; I have a low libido husband. I am just done, with all of it.

Anonymous wrote:Men do more than they ever have before. You think my dad or his dad did jack shit with the kids or dinner or housework? And, for the most part, modern men are putting in just as many hours at their jobs as dad or grandpa did.

Despite working just as hard at paying work and much harder with the kids and house, they get endless shit about not being good enough.

You can say it's because dad and grandpa had it far too easy. And maybe that's the case, but as a modern man, it's tough not to be resentful about doing more and getting shit upon for the effort.

And women aren't doing the exact same thing? Neither of my grandmas ever worked a day in their lives. They cleaned, cooked, raised kids and had dinner on the table at 5pm.

I'm slightly resentful that my DH's job is identical to the one my dad had when I was growing up (both have masters in engineering) but DH's job doesn't pay enough to support a family and my dad's did.

The fact here is

You chose a poor mate. Beta Male. Equal in everything. You wanted it all. You got it.

I am the OP of one of the threads in question. I have a lot of male friends and they are great guys and, I am sure, great husbands. Many of my female friends have husbands that are super great guys.
So I definitely would not indict the whole gender. But we are in a weird place, culturally, where most women have fully embraced the core feminist thinking (even if they don't consider themselves feminist, I think they still act like feminists in meaningful ways). But many men have not really learned to live the life of equality, and just don't have a real understanding of the women that live around them. Our generation of men is definitely better than our father's and grandfather's when it comes to women's equality, but our generation of women expect a lot more.

Plus there's also some women who just like to complain and wouldn't really be happy with anyone. (Like the woman who posted the thread complaining that she married her husband because he seemed like a high achieving male that was not so "alpha" that he would cheat on her ... and now she's unhappy that his career hasn't worked out the way she planned. I'm not sure what's going on with her; she seems to be living in the 19th century.)

PPs, when was the last time you told your DH how you really feel (like the post you just made on this thread)? Or, are you choosing to hold all of this inside, for now?

Men do more than they ever have before. You think my dad or his dad did jack shit with the kids or dinner or housework? And, for the most part, modern men are putting in just as many hours at their jobs as dad or grandpa did.

Despite working just as hard at paying work and much harder with the kids and house, they get endless shit about not being good enough.

You can say it's because dad and grandpa had it far too easy. And maybe that's the case, but as a modern man, it's tough not to be resentful about doing more and getting shit upon for the effort.