Anonymous
10/21/2016 21:05
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Anonymous
10/19/2016 20:35
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here - as with the lying I am worried that my child will develop a poor character
Don't worry about that. My sister lied about small things all the time, she is an upstanding surgeon, never lies, most honest Dr. you can meet. She lied because our parents were too strict and she was a very social and outgoing person, and they would never let her do anything. It means nothing lying at 12. I never lied, ever, and I still don't, could have spared myself some tough situations if I fibbed just a bit here and there.
You and your sister had the same parents, yet only your sister lied.
To me, this underscores the point that some kids lie for reasons unrelated to parents having unreasonable expectations. There are different things going on with different kids.
Yes, we have the same parents, but we are not the same person. I am an introvert, who didn't care about going out and meeting in the park to play at 12, 13, etc but she did. My parents were extremely strict about it, I even covered for my sister. I am also older, and that has quite a bit to do with it too. They piled up the pressure on me for being responsible for my 2 years younger sister. When she needed anything, she would ask me and then I would ask mom or dad because she was scared. She also cared more about clothes and fashion, and they, in so many ways, were unfair to her about it. Since I didn't care then then she didn't need anything but sneakers and jeans too and they found everything she wanted unreasonable. So yes, same parents, different expectation and different kids. They were also unfair to me about grades, if she got a grade that wasn't an A, it was ok, since she was immature, if I got a B, I got punished because I should do better.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 20:05
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Obviously you don't want to push your kid beyond what he or she can do. And you don't want to micromanage your kid, or breathe down his/her neck constantly. Not only will your kid resent you, he will be unable to operate independently in college.
But parents are right to have some expectations and to push their kids somewhat--we all know that without a little push here and there, some kids would never graduate high school.
So the advice to back off and ignore the lying seems off to me. It's a question of finding balance, which will be different for every family.
But parents are right to have some expectations and to push their kids somewhat--we all know that without a little push here and there, some kids would never graduate high school.
So the advice to back off and ignore the lying seems off to me. It's a question of finding balance, which will be different for every family.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 20:02
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here - as with the lying I am worried that my child will develop a poor character
Don't worry about that. My sister lied about small things all the time, she is an upstanding surgeon, never lies, most honest Dr. you can meet. She lied because our parents were too strict and she was a very social and outgoing person, and they would never let her do anything. It means nothing lying at 12. I never lied, ever, and I still don't, could have spared myself some tough situations if I fibbed just a bit here and there.
You and your sister had the same parents, yet only your sister lied.
To me, this underscores the point that some kids lie for reasons unrelated to parents having unreasonable expectations. There are different things going on with different kids.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 19:48
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Anonymous wrote:Help - really. Please none of the "apple does not fall far from the tree" kind of help.
My 12 year old DS is an only child is well behaved though struggles a bit with school and social stuff has been lying about almost EVERYTHING lately. Everything from feeding the dogs, remembering to bring running shoes to gym, and what shirt he wore the day of school photos. Frankly, I cannot trust him with anything he says anymore. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt and not verify everything he says (to avoid making it seem I do not try to trust him) but every time I randomly verify the more important things - I find out he lied! He has even done this at school with a teacher about forgetting books or homework in the locker.
I try to make it clear that it is unacceptable, I get more upset at the instances when he does something wrong and lies - rather than just does something wrong. I have explained how lying impacts trust in a relationship, and if I cannot trust him I cannot feel comfortable with giving privileges to do special or more mature things he may want to do.
Thoughts on strategies that work? I know that some of this is age appropriate.
I was an only child and also lied. What worked was leaving for college. My mom didn't work and simply had too much time to stay on top of me and manage me. She was constantly asking me questions and trying to micromanage me. She didn't have enough to do and she spent so much time focusing on things that didn't matter. You most likely need to let up on your child and stop bothering him about every little detail. If you don't work I suggest finding a job or having another child. Or take on some hobbies. I love my mom and we are best friends today. However, my childhood was rough and she drove me crazy. Literally crazy.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 19:44
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Anonymous wrote:Help - really. Please none of the "apple does not fall far from the tree" kind of help.
My 12 year old DS is an only child is well behaved though struggles a bit with school and social stuff has been lying about almost EVERYTHING lately. Everything from feeding the dogs, remembering to bring running shoes to gym, and what shirt he wore the day of school photos. Frankly, I cannot trust him with anything he says anymore. I try to give him the benefit of the doubt and not verify everything he says (to avoid making it seem I do not try to trust him) but every time I randomly verify the more important things - I find out he lied! He has even done this at school with a teacher about forgetting books or homework in the locker.
I try to make it clear that it is unacceptable, I get more upset at the instances when he does something wrong and lies - rather than just does something wrong. I have explained how lying impacts trust in a relationship, and if I cannot trust him I cannot feel comfortable with giving privileges to do special or more mature things he may want to do.
Thoughts on strategies that work? I know that some of this is age appropriate.
Why do these things matter? It sounds like you're micromanaging him to an extreme. Stop bothering him about every little thing and the lying will stop.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 19:43
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here - as with the lying I am worried that my child will develop a poor character
Don't worry about that. My sister lied about small things all the time, she is an upstanding surgeon, never lies, most honest Dr. you can meet. She lied because our parents were too strict and she was a very social and outgoing person, and they would never let her do anything. It means nothing lying at 12. I never lied, ever, and I still don't, could have spared myself some tough situations if I fibbed just a bit here and there.
I also lied for the same reason and I don't lie as an adult. My parents were constantly up in my business and micromanaged everything.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 19:40
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
When we had this with DS at the same age, I did back off and let him manage himself much more. The other thing that I did was change his chores around some so that lying wasn't an option. Instead of "Did you walk the dog while I was out getting groceries?" it was "If you'd like your computer time tonight, you need to put the dishes in the dishwasher." He couldn't lie about whether he had done the dishes because it was obvious if they were still on the counter.
Agree with others about the school issues. I let the school handle it, a bit trickier with ADHD but still, as hands off as possible.
Agree with others about the school issues. I let the school handle it, a bit trickier with ADHD but still, as hands off as possible.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 19:25
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Anonymous wrote:OP here - as with the lying I am worried that my child will develop a poor character
Don't worry about that. My sister lied about small things all the time, she is an upstanding surgeon, never lies, most honest Dr. you can meet. She lied because our parents were too strict and she was a very social and outgoing person, and they would never let her do anything. It means nothing lying at 12. I never lied, ever, and I still don't, could have spared myself some tough situations if I fibbed just a bit here and there.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 18:52
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Anonymous wrote:Id only give consequences for deleting your email. Not what happened in school. Talk about it. Explain why the teacher doesn't like it. Ask him to tell you how he will handle it better next time. If this is the first behavior slip this year, take it as his maturing. But he still needs to work on self control skills. A work in progress.
I don't discipline at home for school infractions unless they are sever like hitting or cheating. Classroom management is for the teacher.
What you may not understand about a chronically lying kid is that they will deny the school behavior when you address it. He won't tell you how he'll do better next time because he won't admit it, or will say it wasn't like the teacher said.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 18:50
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
OP here - as with the lying I am worried that my child will develop a poor character
Anonymous
10/19/2016 18:49
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:NP.
A lot of pp's on here make excellent points about what the reasons might be for lying . forgetfulness, autonomy, fear of consequences - all understandable and probably all come into play for most kids at times. For us, my DH is micromanager, way too heavy handed AND my kid (13 yr old) is forgetful, has anxiety, and fears consequences (that is his father's temper).
If we were to take all of the advice I have seen posted on here honestly I think we would still have problems. When DS gets in trouble at school he lies through his damn teeth to us to convince us that he is "innocent." I KNOW he is lying. This happens way too often, I know my kid and he just not convincing enough when he lies - it is obvious in this context.
DH falls for it though - I know that is another issue entirely! But I think he absolutely should be punished for the wrongdoing and also the lying.
With regards to homework and other responsibilities the consequences of giving him autonomy could be rather serious. So while in theory all of the solutions here make sense I don't know if our problems would be solved so easily.
Sorry did not mean to hijack the post.
Why do you have to be the ones doling out consequences and managing these things?
Misbehavior in school - if he gets caught, he gets a consequence at school. The parents have nothing to do with that, the teacher or principal gives out whatever the consequence is according to the school rules. Don't even bother asking him if he was guilty or innocent since he now has a bad track record of being dishonest. Whatever the school says, you won't fight because he made himself the boy who cried wolf. But, misbehavior at school is being dealt with by the school so maybe doesn't need anything additional at home.
A teen is old enough to understand that to get by in adulthood requires a paying job, all of which require some sort of qualifications & training or education. Screwing up their grades screws up their future, this is easy to understand. His grades, his problem. Don't micromanage the homework. He doesn't need to lie to you about it -- he either does it or doesn't, and takes the grades he earns. Any consequences you have tied to grades either happen or not based on the report card -- no lies necessary because the grades on the page tell all you need to know.
Don't make anything his responsibility unless he is the one who would face the main consequences of upholding or failing to uphold the obligation. Then, he simply gets the outcome he earns for himself. If he's on necessary medication, then, like a young child, he needs to be supervised while taking it because he has shown he can't be trusted. Otherwise, unless he needs to help with the care of a sibling or a pet, I can't think of any responsibility a 13 year old has that would be disastrous to anyone other than himself if he failed to uphold it.
OP here - my son is ADHD with some executive functioning issues, so in order for anything to get done in regards to school I have to be more hands on than I'd rally like - or he'd be failing out of all his classes - which directly impacts me [ability to work overseas and him getting into international schools] and his education long term. Laissez-faire is not something he is quite ready for yet, but I will stop asking questions for things that would set him to lie, and try to focus on supporting the process of helping him figure out how to get organized. For some kids adulthood is way into the future - they may know the rules and expectations to get there, but ability to break down those steps are harder.
Also, we get edline reports every week, and I do provide some feedback, but will just refer him to site and follow up with what is missing.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 18:48
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Id only give consequences for deleting your email. Not what happened in school. Talk about it. Explain why the teacher doesn't like it. Ask him to tell you how he will handle it better next time. If this is the first behavior slip this year, take it as his maturing. But he still needs to work on self control skills. A work in progress.
I don't discipline at home for school infractions unless they are sever like hitting or cheating. Classroom management is for the teacher.
I don't discipline at home for school infractions unless they are sever like hitting or cheating. Classroom management is for the teacher.
Anonymous
10/19/2016 18:32
Subject: 12 Year Old Son Constantly Lies
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:NP.
A lot of pp's on here make excellent points about what the reasons might be for lying . forgetfulness, autonomy, fear of consequences - all understandable and probably all come into play for most kids at times. For us, my DH is micromanager, way too heavy handed AND my kid (13 yr old) is forgetful, has anxiety, and fears consequences (that is his father's temper).
If we were to take all of the advice I have seen posted on here honestly I think we would still have problems. When DS gets in trouble at school he lies through his damn teeth to us to convince us that he is "innocent." I KNOW he is lying. This happens way too often, I know my kid and he just not convincing enough when he lies - it is obvious in this context.
DH falls for it though - I know that is another issue entirely! But I think he absolutely should be punished for the wrongdoing and also the lying.
With regards to homework and other responsibilities the consequences of giving him autonomy could be rather serious. So while in theory all of the solutions here make sense I don't know if our problems would be solved so easily.
Sorry did not mean to hijack the post.
Why do you have to be the ones doling out consequences and managing these things?
Misbehavior in school - if he gets caught, he gets a consequence at school. The parents have nothing to do with that, the teacher or principal gives out whatever the consequence is according to the school rules. Don't even bother asking him if he was guilty or innocent since he now has a bad track record of being dishonest. Whatever the school says, you won't fight because he made himself the boy who cried wolf. But, misbehavior at school is being dealt with by the school so maybe doesn't need anything additional at home.
A teen is old enough to understand that to get by in adulthood requires a paying job, all of which require some sort of qualifications & training or education. Screwing up their grades screws up their future, this is easy to understand. His grades, his problem. Don't micromanage the homework. He doesn't need to lie to you about it -- he either does it or doesn't, and takes the grades he earns. Any consequences you have tied to grades either happen or not based on the report card -- no lies necessary because the grades on the page tell all you need to know.
Don't make anything his responsibility unless he is the one who would face the main consequences of upholding or failing to uphold the obligation. Then, he simply gets the outcome he earns for himself. If he's on necessary medication, then, like a young child, he needs to be supervised while taking it because he has shown he can't be trusted. Otherwise, unless he needs to help with the care of a sibling or a pet, I can't think of any responsibility a 13 year old has that would be disastrous to anyone other than himself if he failed to uphold it.
NP. It's not so black and white as you suggest. My 13 year old son lies a lot, too.
For the school example, I don't have to ask him for him to bring it up and tell me how it was everyone else's fault, or the teacher doesn't like him, or someone blamed it on him, or it was a misunderstanding. For the homework example, if you have a child who is too young or immature to understand the consequences of doing poorly in school, then as a parent, it is up to you to teach them how to be a responsible student. You cannot stay completely out of it and expect them to learn how to be organized, how to plan ahead, etc if they aren't mature enough to get it and they do not care.
Part of the lying problem is an underlying inability to take responsibility for their actions. He blames everything on someone else or some outside factor. He will lie to my face about something he knows I saw happen and tell me it didn't happen. He will mince my words to shreds, trying to find one tiny part that I misspoke on and say he didn't say/do *exactly* that, glossing over the entirety of the issue. His ability to manipulate words makes me feel like I'm going crazy.
As hard as it is, I feel that it is my duty to find a way to break him of his habit and teach him to accept responsibility or I'l be sending him out into the world as an unfit student, employee, husband, human being.