Anonymous
10/17/2016 16:51
Subject: Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you live in a manner that is contrary to the established native culture, and choose to not assimilate effectively, don't be surprised when people react to that difference.
I drove through this small town in the middle of no where, got some food in a diner. The kids next table over could not stop staring at us and the parents were obviously curious too but did not want to intrude. Our kids just stared back. It was a bit uncomfortable. The waitress asked "where are ya'll from?" I replied back with no accent "Virginia" and ordered our lunch. You can just feel the barrier melt away. Now, I could say that I shouldn't have to prove myself, and I can protest loudly about the people who yell at me to go back to where I came from through the years. But the US has shown to me that its people are very generous and accepting to those who subscribe to the shared fundamental ideals, one of which is assimilation. E pluribus unum.
That's nice for you. Probably a bit harder for people who will never be considered "assimilated" due to the color of their skin or their appearance. Also, one of the great things about this country is that you can be a productive citizen without assimilating. Should Jews have to assimilate? Sikhs? Buddhists? Quakers? Or just Muslims? Your encouragement of "assimilation" sounds very much like the official French line, which is ostensibly religion-neutral but in fact privileges Christianity above all other religions. That may be fine for France but in this country, our Constitution protects the freedom to believe and behave differently.
If people want to stare at me because I look or dress differently, fine. I recognize that I may look or speak differently and that I stand out. But to be treated with hostility or threatened is a different matter entirely.
Well, as an Asian, I will always be visibly different. That's why I stand out sitting in the diner of a small farming town. I do believe Jews have assimilated. In fact, to me it was only in the past 10 years that I realized that certain last names have Jewish ancestry, like Zimmermann. Hasidic Jews, however, have not assimilated to the same degree and outside of their cultural enclaves such as in NY, they are met with apprehension. We can say similar things about the Amish. Again, any time when you choose to not assimilate, people will note the difference and sometimes react negatively. Muslims are not unique in this.
Read the threads on Christmas, Christmas trees, holiday observances, prayer in schools (these threads abound ever year) and tell me that Jews have assimilated and are deemed assimilated. Looks-wise, yes, probably, except for the more Orthodox and Hasidic sects. (Which are growing, by the way.) But many, many Jews who otherwise feel that they have mostly assimilated still refuse to do the Christmas/Santa Claus thing and are offended by people who say they should do so as part of being American.
But anyway, the point is that people who look different may stand out, but that is not a reason to treat them negatively. Do you think people should treat you negatively because you are Asian and therefore stand out in a small town? I should hope not. And I also think that assimilation is a choice. It is not required. If you want to assimilate, great. I'm mostly assimilated myself except for religious issues (Jewish). But if someone wants to practice Hasidic Judaism or be Amish or anything else, including Muslim, that is their right so long as they're not hurting anyone else. And I think it is reprehensible to say that it's ok or expected to treat them negatively because they are different. It is my firm belief that differences make this country great. Differences can also be difficult and cause friction and misunderstanding. But that doesn't mean they are bad and should be erased.
Np. So you are assimilated except for being jewish? Religion is irrelevant in assimilating if the teachings do not exclude others or if you go to a mosque where an imam you like is preaching hate and intolerance for christians and jews. Well that person is not trying at all to assimilate and accept other diverse americans. No person should be treated differently based on how they look. Ive met muslims who said they disliked or hated america and havent assimilated and others who love it here and have diverse friends and date other races and faiths. Myself i am a hispanic whose family has been here decades back when latinos werent as many as they are today. My parents said they would be ignored by some restaurants that were all white now are mostly latino. When i went to a city with not as many latinos but mostly black and white people i got looked at as if i had 3 eyes on my head.
Anonymous
10/17/2016 16:37
Subject: Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes, I have Muslim friends who don't tell their co-workers their religion because they're afraid of how they'll react.
Religion should not be discussed at the work place in any event. It is very private and no matter what you belive, it should not be brough up at the work environment.
Discussed? I worked with muslims who prayed in the workplace several times a day too so how can you ignore that?
Salat is the obligatory Muslim prayers, performed five times each day by Muslims. It is the second Pillar of Islam. God ordered Muslims to pray at five set times of day: Salat al-fajr: dawn, before sunrise.Sep 8, 2009
A sensitive workplace would provide them a place to pray, if they want it. Though I support their right to pray wherever they want so long as it is not disruptive to company business. (And by that I mean actually disruptive, not "I don't like to see Muslims pray but I'm ok with Christian prayer.")
But anyway, I'm not sure of your point. If I see a colleague praying, eating, or doing anything else private, I don't comment on it or seek to discuss it. If they bring it up with me, that's fine. But I'm not going to approach them about it. Not my business.
Anonymous
10/17/2016 16:30
Subject: Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes, I have Muslim friends who don't tell their co-workers their religion because they're afraid of how they'll react.
Religion should not be discussed at the work place in any event. It is very private and no matter what you belive, it should not be brough up at the work environment.
Discussed? I worked with muslims who prayed in the workplace several times a day too so how can you ignore that?
Salat is the obligatory Muslim prayers, performed five times each day by Muslims. It is the second Pillar of Islam. God ordered Muslims to pray at five set times of day: Salat al-fajr: dawn, before sunrise.Sep 8, 2009
Anonymous
10/17/2016 16:04
Subject: Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you live in a manner that is contrary to the established native culture, and choose to not assimilate effectively, don't be surprised when people react to that difference.
I drove through this small town in the middle of no where, got some food in a diner. The kids next table over could not stop staring at us and the parents were obviously curious too but did not want to intrude. Our kids just stared back. It was a bit uncomfortable. The waitress asked "where are ya'll from?" I replied back with no accent "Virginia" and ordered our lunch. You can just feel the barrier melt away. Now, I could say that I shouldn't have to prove myself, and I can protest loudly about the people who yell at me to go back to where I came from through the years. But the US has shown to me that its people are very generous and accepting to those who subscribe to the shared fundamental ideals, one of which is assimilation. E pluribus unum.
That's nice for you. Probably a bit harder for people who will never be considered "assimilated" due to the color of their skin or their appearance. Also, one of the great things about this country is that you can be a productive citizen without assimilating. Should Jews have to assimilate? Sikhs? Buddhists? Quakers? Or just Muslims? Your encouragement of "assimilation" sounds very much like the official French line, which is ostensibly religion-neutral but in fact privileges Christianity above all other religions. That may be fine for France but in this country, our Constitution protects the freedom to believe and behave differently.
If people want to stare at me because I look or dress differently, fine. I recognize that I may look or speak differently and that I stand out. But to be treated with hostility or threatened is a different matter entirely.
Well, as an Asian, I will always be visibly different. That's why I stand out sitting in the diner of a small farming town. I do believe Jews have assimilated. In fact, to me it was only in the past 10 years that I realized that certain last names have Jewish ancestry, like Zimmermann. Hasidic Jews, however, have not assimilated to the same degree and outside of their cultural enclaves such as in NY, they are met with apprehension. We can say similar things about the Amish. Again, any time when you choose to not assimilate, people will note the difference and sometimes react negatively. Muslims are not unique in this.
Read the threads on Christmas, Christmas trees, holiday observances, prayer in schools (these threads abound ever year) and tell me that Jews have assimilated and are deemed assimilated. Looks-wise, yes, probably, except for the more Orthodox and Hasidic sects. (Which are growing, by the way.) But many, many Jews who otherwise feel that they have mostly assimilated still refuse to do the Christmas/Santa Claus thing and are offended by people who say they should do so as part of being American.
But anyway, the point is that people who look different may stand out, but that is not a reason to treat them negatively. Do you think people should treat you negatively because you are Asian and therefore stand out in a small town? I should hope not. And I also think that assimilation is a choice. It is not required. If you want to assimilate, great. I'm mostly assimilated myself except for religious issues (Jewish). But if someone wants to practice Hasidic Judaism or be Amish or anything else, including Muslim, that is their right so long as they're not hurting anyone else. And I think it is reprehensible to say that it's ok or expected to treat them negatively because they are different. It is my firm belief that differences make this country great. Differences can also be difficult and cause friction and misunderstanding. But that doesn't mean they are bad and should be erased.
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:50
Subject: Re:Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, it their fear much stronger than the fear of living in the country of their origin. If it is, then maybe they should go to live to the country where they can freely practice their relegion. A lot of people move to different countries from their native land for religious reason. I have a lot of Muslim friends here and in a Middle East. I never heard that anyone feel threatened in US.
Why should I be surprised by your response? Should the white Americans who are afraid of situation in USA move to where ever they came from?
You do not have any more claim to America than they have. This is their only country and they have every right to feel safe HERE!
PP. I was born here. Why should I move to another country to practice my religion without fear that I will be subjected to random violence?
Because if you are truly afraid for your life and the life of your family, you should protect yourself and your loved one. My descendants were prosecuted for being Christians in Soviet Russia, were sent to jail for having a Bible at home. They flew becasue of the fear. Yes, they were born and raised in Russia, but when the fear is real, you leave. That is why I am asking, are your fears real? And if the answer is yes, save your life.
There are many white supremacists who have "REAL FEAR" in their mind that their country is run over by the "NonWhites". Their fear is real, according to them. What do you think they should do? Where do you think they should go?
Somewhere else because that fear is UnAmerican....Maybe they should go to Iran since that is where Aryans originate from.
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:44
Subject: Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If you live in a manner that is contrary to the established native culture, and choose to not assimilate effectively, don't be surprised when people react to that difference.
I drove through this small town in the middle of no where, got some food in a diner. The kids next table over could not stop staring at us and the parents were obviously curious too but did not want to intrude. Our kids just stared back. It was a bit uncomfortable. The waitress asked "where are ya'll from?" I replied back with no accent "Virginia" and ordered our lunch. You can just feel the barrier melt away. Now, I could say that I shouldn't have to prove myself, and I can protest loudly about the people who yell at me to go back to where I came from through the years. But the US has shown to me that its people are very generous and accepting to those who subscribe to the shared fundamental ideals, one of which is assimilation. E pluribus unum.
That's nice for you. Probably a bit harder for people who will never be considered "assimilated" due to the color of their skin or their appearance. Also, one of the great things about this country is that you can be a productive citizen without assimilating. Should Jews have to assimilate? Sikhs? Buddhists? Quakers? Or just Muslims? Your encouragement of "assimilation" sounds very much like the official French line, which is ostensibly religion-neutral but in fact privileges Christianity above all other religions. That may be fine for France but in this country, our Constitution protects the freedom to believe and behave differently.
If people want to stare at me because I look or dress differently, fine. I recognize that I may look or speak differently and that I stand out. But to be treated with hostility or threatened is a different matter entirely.
Well, as an Asian, I will always be visibly different. That's why I stand out sitting in the diner of a small farming town. I do believe Jews have assimilated. In fact, to me it was only in the past 10 years that I realized that certain last names have Jewish ancestry, like Zimmermann. Hasidic Jews, however, have not assimilated to the same degree and outside of their cultural enclaves such as in NY, they are met with apprehension. We can say similar things about the Amish. Again, any time when you choose to not assimilate, people will note the difference and sometimes react negatively. Muslims are not unique in this.
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:28
Subject: Re:Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, it their fear much stronger than the fear of living in the country of their origin. If it is, then maybe they should go to live to the country where they can freely practice their relegion. A lot of people move to different countries from their native land for religious reason. I have a lot of Muslim friends here and in a Middle East. I never heard that anyone feel threatened in US.
Why should I be surprised by your response? Should the white Americans who are afraid of situation in USA move to where ever they came from?
You do not have any more claim to America than they have. This is their only country and they have every right to feel safe HERE!
PP. I was born here. Why should I move to another country to practice my religion without fear that I will be subjected to random violence?
Because if you are truly afraid for your life and the life of your family, you should protect yourself and your loved one. My descendants were prosecuted for being Christians in Soviet Russia, were sent to jail for having a Bible at home. They flew becasue of the fear. Yes, they were born and raised in Russia, but when the fear is real, you leave. That is why I am asking, are your fears real? And if the answer is yes, save your life.
There are many white supremacists who have "REAL FEAR" in their mind that their country is run over by the "NonWhites". Their fear is real, according to them. What do you think they should do? Where do you think they should go?
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:23
Subject: Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Yes, that makes sense but are you afraid to tell your co-workers that you're an atheist or are you just displaying good manners?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes, I have Muslim friends who don't tell their co-workers their religion because they're afraid of how they'll react.
Religion and politics are generally not good topics in the work place. As an atheist, I don't discuss my lack of religion even among close friends.
I am afraid of how they'll react, exactly like the PP said. I don't know how my boss privately views atheism. What if I get shitty assignments or get passed over for opportunities? What if it is just subtly reflected in my annual performance review? I'd rather not take that chance.
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:22
Subject: Re:Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, it their fear much stronger than the fear of living in the country of their origin. If it is, then maybe they should go to live to the country where they can freely practice their relegion. A lot of people move to different countries from their native land for religious reason. I have a lot of Muslim friends here and in a Middle East. I never heard that anyone feel threatened in US.
Why should I be surprised by your response? Should the white Americans who are afraid of situation in USA move to where ever they came from?
You do not have any more claim to America than they have. This is their only country and they have every right to feel safe HERE!
PP. I was born here. Why should I move to another country to practice my religion without fear that I will be subjected to random violence?
Because if you are truly afraid for your life and the life of your family, you should protect yourself and your loved one. My descendants were prosecuted for being Christians in Soviet Russia, were sent to jail for having a Bible at home. They flew becasue of the fear. Yes, they were born and raised in Russia, but when the fear is real, you leave. That is why I am asking, are your fears real? And if the answer is yes, save your life.
I think PP's point is that the US, unlike many other nations, safeguards its citizens, residents, and visitors. No one should be afraid for their life or family in this country due to religion. Obviously it happens, but that doesn't mean it should happen, nor does it mean the response should be "oh well move somewhere else." No -- the response should be, enforce the laws we have that are supposed to keep everyone, religious minorities included, safe!
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:20
Subject: Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes, that makes sense but are you afraid to tell your co-workers that you're an atheist or are you just displaying good manners?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes, I have Muslim friends who don't tell their co-workers their religion because they're afraid of how they'll react.
Religion and politics are generally not good topics in the work place. As an atheist, I don't discuss my lack of religion even among close friends.
Tell your Muslim friends to acquire good manners and not to discussed their religion out of good manners. As to the fears, we all have our fears and we all dealing with them. If they can't handle it on their own, they can seek counseling.
I doubt they are going around "discussing" their religion with others unless they are asked a question. I am Jewish and I never bring up the fact that I'm Jewish at work. However, people ask me questions about it. Like "isn't it your holiday soon? What's that called again? What's it for? What's the appropriate thing to say?" Am I supposed to not answer? It actually does make me a little uncomfortable but I'm not going to decline to answer a direct question that is harmless and comes from an honest inquiry, rather than malice.
And if two Muslims are talking to each other about Muslim topics, by the way, that's their right to do so even if it counts as "discussing" their religion. Sorry if you can't handle it.
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:20
Subject: Re:Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, it their fear much stronger than the fear of living in the country of their origin. If it is, then maybe they should go to live to the country where they can freely practice their relegion. A lot of people move to different countries from their native land for religious reason. I have a lot of Muslim friends here and in a Middle East. I never heard that anyone feel threatened in US.
Why should I be surprised by your response? Should the white Americans who are afraid of situation in USA move to where ever they came from?
You do not have any more claim to America than they have. This is their only country and they have every right to feel safe HERE!
PP. I was born here. Why should I move to another country to practice my religion without fear that I will be subjected to random violence?
There are many Muslims in this country who were born here - how dare you suggest they move to another country to feel safe? In addition, our constitution provides right to its Muslim citizens (irrespective of their country of birth) and Muslim residents to live without fear of persecution. You need to understand what makes our country great and make sure not to violate that basic principles.
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:18
Subject: Re:Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, it their fear much stronger than the fear of living in the country of their origin. If it is, then maybe they should go to live to the country where they can freely practice their relegion. A lot of people move to different countries from their native land for religious reason. I have a lot of Muslim friends here and in a Middle East. I never heard that anyone feel threatened in US.
Why should I be surprised by your response? Should the white Americans who are afraid of situation in USA move to where ever they came from?
You do not have any more claim to America than they have. This is their only country and they have every right to feel safe HERE!
PP. I was born here. Why should I move to another country to practice my religion without fear that I will be subjected to random violence?
Because if you are truly afraid for your life and the life of your family, you should protect yourself and your loved one. My descendants were prosecuted for being Christians in Soviet Russia, were sent to jail for having a Bible at home. They flew becasue of the fear. Yes, they were born and raised in Russia, but when the fear is real, you leave. That is why I am asking, are your fears real? And if the answer is yes, save your life.
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:16
Subject: Re:Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, it their fear much stronger than the fear of living in the country of their origin. If it is, then maybe they should go to live to the country where they can freely practice their relegion. A lot of people move to different countries from their native land for religious reason. I have a lot of Muslim friends here and in a Middle East. I never heard that anyone feel threatened in US.
Why should I be surprised by your response? Should the white Americans who are afraid of situation in USA move to where ever they came from?
You do not have any more claim to America than they have. This is their only country and they have every right to feel safe HERE!
PP. I was born here. Why should I move to another country to practice my religion without fear that I will be subjected to random violence?
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:15
Subject: Re:Being Muslim in America
Anonymous wrote:OP, it their fear much stronger than the fear of living in the country of their origin. If it is, then maybe they should go to live to the country where they can freely practice their relegion. A lot of people move to different countries from their native land for religious reason. I have a lot of Muslim friends here and in a Middle East. I never heard that anyone feel threatened in US.
Why should I be surprised by your response? Should the white Americans who are afraid of situation in USA move to where ever they came from?
You do not have any more claim to America than they have. This is their only country and they have every right to feel safe HERE!
Anonymous
10/17/2016 15:11
Subject: Re:Being Muslim in America
OP, it their fear much stronger than the fear of living in the country of their origin. If it is, then maybe they should go to live to the country where they can freely practice their relegion. A lot of people move to different countries from their native land for religious reason. I have a lot of Muslim friends here and in a Middle East. I never heard that anyone feel threatened in US.