Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, both ADHD and ASD can be very subjective diagnoses because they are based on outward behaviors and it's hard to tease out what is driving those behaviors.

The diagnoses are based on outward behaviors when it comes to testing. That's part but not all.

Yes, and the ADOS is supposed to have high inter-rater reliability.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you raving on about? I just said my kid doesn't have Asd. I'm just sick of you barging in on every post and touting the horrors of being "mislabeled" with Asd. I don't think it happens anywhere near the level you imagine and I think you have a bizarre, misguided view of Asd that is discriminatory and biased.

There was no MERLD parent on this thread, so the question is what are you ranting about? You just made false accusations and instead of being a grown up and apologizing you continue to rant!

As a regular reader of this forum, I do recognize the poster who comes in on every thread re ASD and goes on about how important it is to distinguish ASD from other things, because the treatments are totally different, and her child with MERLD was at one point thought to have ASD, and yes, calls someone ASD MOM every single time. So I stand by what I said. I recognize her posts and she has some crazy bias against ASD and makes every thread about that agenda.

I'm someone completely different who has no agenda other than checking bad information.

Hello OP. How old is your child? I think the older s/he is, the better the accuracy of the diagnosis will be. If s/he is under 2, or under 3 years-old, your diagnosis may not be accurate and I would seek second opinion. I'm speaking from experience. Our son was diagnosed at Childrens with "provisional ASD" when he was 27 months old. When we went back for his 6-month check up, he had made so much progress that the Dr told us the diagnosis could change in the future. Our son checks many of the boxes for ASD, especially around speech and communication, but doesn't meet all the criteria. The advise from the Dr was to postpone the ADOS evaluation for a few months, probably until next Spring to see how things shift because he could have ADHD and a speed disorder, but not ASD. My advise is to have patience and trust your gut.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you raving on about? I just said my kid doesn't have Asd. I'm just sick of you barging in on every post and touting the horrors of being "mislabeled" with Asd. I don't think it happens anywhere near the level you imagine and I think you have a bizarre, misguided view of Asd that is discriminatory and biased.

There was no MERLD parent on this thread, so the question is what are you ranting about? You just made false accusations and instead of being a grown up and apologizing you continue to rant!

As a regular reader of this forum, I do recognize the poster who comes in on every thread re ASD and goes on about how important it is to distinguish ASD from other things, because the treatments are totally different, and her child with MERLD was at one point thought to have ASD, and yes, calls someone ASD MOM every single time. So I stand by what I said. I recognize her posts and she has some crazy bias against ASD and makes every thread about that agenda.

Your MERLD-dar is off. I am one of the MERLD moms -- probably THE MERLD parent -- and this is my first post.

But actually, having your child properly diagnosed is the starting point. And the right evaluator makes all the difference.

+1, no there are two of us, but I suspect a few more. You are ranting and making accusations that are false. No MERLD parent based off the posts on this thread have said anything until you came on ranting and accusing us of doing something we didn't do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you raving on about? I just said my kid doesn't have Asd. I'm just sick of you barging in on every post and touting the horrors of being "mislabeled" with Asd. I don't think it happens anywhere near the level you imagine and I think you have a bizarre, misguided view of Asd that is discriminatory and biased.

There was no MERLD parent on this thread, so the question is what are you ranting about? You just made false accusations and instead of being a grown up and apologizing you continue to rant!

As a regular reader of this forum, I do recognize the poster who comes in on every thread re ASD and goes on about how important it is to distinguish ASD from other things, because the treatments are totally different, and her child with MERLD was at one point thought to have ASD, and yes, calls someone ASD MOM every single time. So I stand by what I said. I recognize her posts and she has some crazy bias against ASD and makes every thread about that agenda.

Your MERLD-dar is off. I am one of the MERLD moms -- probably THE MERLD parent -- and this is my first post.

But actually, having your child properly diagnosed is the starting point. And the right evaluator makes all the difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, both ADHD and ASD can be very subjective diagnoses because they are based on outward behaviors and it's hard to tease out what is driving those behaviors.

A child who has trouble with social interactions may have this issue because he's a. impulsive and can't keep his hands to himself even though he knows this is annoying (ADHD), b. can't understand social norms and has no idea this is annoying (ASD), c. gets really nervous around social situations and tends to want to hide away (anxiety), or d. doesn't have the language to engage properly (speech delays). It could also be some combination of all of the above or something completely different.

ADOS can tease out some of the behaviors as being due to ASD-related deficits but remember that it's one test given by one clinician on one day and the test itself is scored in a very subjective way.

The criteria for ASD include challenges with flexibility, intense or repetitive interests or behaviors, challenges with reciprocity that cause SIGNIFICANT interference with functioning in one or more contexts.

Exactly this.

Spoken like two posters who've never had a neuropsychological evaluation of their kids.

Kids on the spectrum have difficulty with gestalt perception. You can actually read about it and learn something:
https://books.google.com/books?id=1tR1CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=autism+testing+foreground&source=bl&ots=TMm-hZAsuH&sig=igUUqZP5av68tPRSZx7x4LGXFok&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwicz-HBltbPAhUEWz4KHUbkBTcQ6AEILzAD#v=onepage&q=autism%20testing%20foreground&f=false

Anonymous wrote:Yes, both ADHD and ASD can be very subjective diagnoses because they are based on outward behaviors and it's hard to tease out what is driving those behaviors.

A child who has trouble with social interactions may have this issue because he's a. impulsive and can't keep his hands to himself even though he knows this is annoying (ADHD), b. can't understand social norms and has no idea this is annoying (ASD), c. gets really nervous around social situations and tends to want to hide away (anxiety), or d. doesn't have the language to engage properly (speech delays). It could also be some combination of all of the above or something completely different.

ADOS can tease out some of the behaviors as being due to ASD-related deficits but remember that it's one test given by one clinician on one day and the test itself is scored in a very subjective way.

The criteria for ASD include challenges with flexibility, intense or repetitive interests or behaviors, challenges with reciprocity that cause SIGNIFICANT interference with functioning in one or more contexts.

Exactly this.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, both ADHD and ASD can be very subjective diagnoses because they are based on outward behaviors and it's hard to tease out what is driving those behaviors.

The diagnoses are based on outward behaviors when it comes to testing. That's part but not all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you raving on about? I just said my kid doesn't have Asd. I'm just sick of you barging in on every post and touting the horrors of being "mislabeled" with Asd. I don't think it happens anywhere near the level you imagine and I think you have a bizarre, misguided view of Asd that is discriminatory and biased.

There was no MERLD parent on this thread, so the question is what are you ranting about? You just made false accusations and instead of being a grown up and apologizing you continue to rant!

As a regular reader of this forum, I do recognize the poster who comes in on every thread re ASD and goes on about how important it is to distinguish ASD from other things, because the treatments are totally different, and her child with MERLD was at one point thought to have ASD, and yes, calls someone ASD MOM every single time. So I stand by what I said. I recognize her posts and she has some crazy bias against ASD and makes every thread about that agenda.

Anonymous wrote:What are you raving on about? I just said my kid doesn't have Asd. I'm just sick of you barging in on every post and touting the horrors of being "mislabeled" with Asd. I don't think it happens anywhere near the level you imagine and I think you have a bizarre, misguided view of Asd that is discriminatory and biased.

There was no MERLD parent on this thread, so the question is what are you ranting about? You just made false accusations and instead of being a grown up and apologizing you continue to rant!

What are you raving on about? I just said my kid doesn't have Asd. I'm just sick of you barging in on every post and touting the horrors of being "mislabeled" with Asd. I don't think it happens anywhere near the level you imagine and I think you have a bizarre, misguided view of Asd that is discriminatory and biased.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of numbers and facts being randomly thrown around here.

I would want to know with specificity if my child had ADHD (a disorder with medical and behavioral treatments for which there is strong evidence that a large proportion of children can grow out of) and ASD (a disorder with very different treatments that is lifelong generally). I would also want to know with specificity why the doctor did not consider any of the assessments deemed reliable (like ADOS) were not conclusive. If the diagnosis was dual I would expect to know how he found that, with specificity, not just "these kids look the same."

God, is this MERLD lady? Research shows that ADHD with ASD traits is less likely to be "grown out of". Many kids do compensate, which is what you are really looking for here, with mild ASD. It is why some kids would "lose" the PDD-NOS order. My kid does not have ASD, but I am so tired of you with our bogeyman ASD attitude. Its not a death sentence. Its a neurological disorder. There are about 100000 things scarier than an ASD diagnosis for a kid.

If God answers, let us know! You might have bigger problems than ASD.

ASD MOM, there are several MERLD mom's on here and no, that is not a MERLD Post. Get over yourself. Not every child has ASD. I read the post very differently.

OP, Get an evaluation and if you are still concerned a second opinion. ASD and ADHD like others have said is very subjective and kids change as they get older. ADHD and ASD are not curable and will not be outgrown but can be managed.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of numbers and facts being randomly thrown around here.

I would want to know with specificity if my child had ADHD (a disorder with medical and behavioral treatments for which there is strong evidence that a large proportion of children can grow out of) and ASD (a disorder with very different treatments that is lifelong generally). I would also want to know with specificity why the doctor did not consider any of the assessments deemed reliable (like ADOS) were not conclusive. If the diagnosis was dual I would expect to know how he found that, with specificity, not just "these kids look the same."

God, is this MERLD lady? Research shows that ADHD with ASD traits is less likely to be "grown out of". Many kids do compensate, which is what you are really looking for here, with mild ASD. It is why some kids would "lose" the PDD-NOS order. My kid does not have ASD, but I am so tired of you with our bogeyman ASD attitude. Its not a death sentence. Its a neurological disorder. There are about 100000 things scarier than an ASD diagnosis for a kid.

Anonymous wrote:I see a lot of numbers and facts being randomly thrown around here.

I would want to know with specificity if my child had ADHD (a disorder with medical and behavioral treatments for which there is strong evidence that a large proportion of children can grow out of) and ASD (a disorder with very different treatments that is lifelong generally). I would also want to know with specificity why the doctor did not consider any of the assessments deemed reliable (like ADOS) were not conclusive. If the diagnosis was dual I would expect to know how he found that, with specificity, not just "these kids look the same."

I think the point PPs are trying to make is that even if you got a detailed explanation from a doctor you might not have the crystal clear answer you are seeking. It's possible another doctor may give you a different explanation for why he believes in a different diagnosis. From your language it sounds like you would find comfort in an ADHD diagnosis versus an ASD diagnosis. I'm not sure this is the right way to look at things.

There is definitely overlap, and with anxiety as well. I agree with 13:56, who said that it is not necessarily an issue of severity. My son has severe ADHD and is very affected by the disorder. He also has severe anxiety. I anticipated an ASD diagnosis when he was first evaluated, the first few times, really. Not only did he have many red flags, but more intensely so than kids I know with an ASD diagnosis. However he was not diagnosed with ASD. What clinicians stated in various situations is that while, yes, he does indeed have some traits that could be associated with ASD, he has others that rule it out. Another one said something to the effect of certain "strengths" keeping him from getting an ASD diagnosis. My child was evaluated pretty thoroughly at 4 and 6 and over time, now that he is 12, it is much more obvious that the diagnoses were right. Most of his sensory issues have completely gone away or are so reduced that they are in the range of normal, his interactions and friendships are reciprocal, he is much less rigid, he is much more emotionally regulated, and so on, whereas the inattention/distractibility/executive function problems continue to affect him in all areas of life. While I think that some of this stuff is guesswork, I also believe that a very good doctor who does a thorough evaluation can learn a lot of valuable information.