OP, where is dad? You don't mention him at all.

It sounds like grandparents are around to help. I would try to spend one on one time with your 8yo. A 12yo should not require so much time. Carpool. It really isn't fair that you rave about your older child and a toddler obviously requires constant supervision. Sounds like your daughter is getting the short end of the stick. I actually feel bad for her. If she's doing well in school and fine with friends, it doesn't sound like ADD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Me again. And I'm guilty of the asking 11x to do something thing. But I notice, when it gets that far, it doesn't mean she's not paying attention, it means I'M not paying attention. I'm asking her while multitasking, or I'm feeling tired/lazy and don't want to actually enforce the consequences, etc, etc.

Yes I am stretched thin and maybe I don't handle discipline well - good point- but I can say she doesn't seem to be phased by punishment - part of the frustration.
If she doesn't put her shoes away, what should I do? If she doesn't take her shower after asking her three times ( last night's fight) what do I do? Yelling or taking away iPad doesn't work-- how do I change her behavior?

Any attention is better than no attention so she is getting her needs met by not doing things and you reacting. Be very consistent and stop yelling. No more punishments. Have her earn things like iPad for good behavior. She can have 30 minutes at night if she does what she is asked, within reason that day. You are making everything negative and that is the only attention she gets. Stop multitasking and make her your priority. You can't feel lazy or tired when you have three kids. You have to deal with it and make it work. You also need to set aside 10-15 minutes before bed or sometime where she gets your undivided attention.

+1. She's not getting positive attention, or not enough, so she's acting up to get some attention.

Undivided attention is great, but also don't wait to pay attention until she's misbehaving. When she's trains, or doing her homework, or playing quietly, notice and comment on it. Sit next to her and talk to her about what's she's doing.

And if she's struggling with being gentle enough with the baby, then play with her and the baby so that she's supervised, and notice when she's doing a good job. She's not old enough (or mature enough) to follow through with verbal instructions to "be gentle" or whatever. Shes not "bad" she's just not ready.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Me again. And I'm guilty of the asking 11x to do something thing. But I notice, when it gets that far, it doesn't mean she's not paying attention, it means I'M not paying attention. I'm asking her while multitasking, or I'm feeling tired/lazy and don't want to actually enforce the consequences, etc, etc.

Yes I am stretched thin and maybe I don't handle discipline well - good point- but I can say she doesn't seem to be phased by punishment - part of the frustration.
If she doesn't put her shoes away, what should I do? If she doesn't take her shower after asking her three times ( last night's fight) what do I do? Yelling or taking away iPad doesn't work-- how do I change her behavior?

At 8. would be reasonable that you still help her take a shower.

At 8, she should be able to turn shower on, test the temperature and get in. I think it is fine to get help with her hair, but at this age she should be able to handle the majority of a shower.

That said, my youngest is on the immature side of normal. OP, it sounds like you have one that is on the mature side of normal (your 12 year old), and one immature child. It is hard not to compare the two, and expect behaviors of your youngest that you had/have from your oldest.

Parent the child you have. If you asked her once to get in the shower (from afar, I know how this works) and she doesn't, GO and "help" her get in. I would bet this is a majority of your problem. She clearly can't handle you asking while you are distracted doing something else. PAY attention to your daughter. Stop parenting from 20 feet away. She's distracted, you are distracted. Walk up to her and tell her it is time for a shower. In the morning, set the iPad for time. 2 minutes for teeth, one minute to wash her face, 5 minutes for clothes (or whatever).

You have to teach her these things - which can be tough when you have a kid that did a lot on their own. I understand, I really do. There is a lot my oldest does naturally that I have to walk my youngest through step by step.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Me again. And I'm guilty of the asking 11x to do something thing. But I notice, when it gets that far, it doesn't mean she's not paying attention, it means I'M not paying attention. I'm asking her while multitasking, or I'm feeling tired/lazy and don't want to actually enforce the consequences, etc, etc.

Yes I am stretched thin and maybe I don't handle discipline well - good point- but I can say she doesn't seem to be phased by punishment - part of the frustration.
If she doesn't put her shoes away, what should I do? If she doesn't take her shower after asking her three times ( last night's fight) what do I do? Yelling or taking away iPad doesn't work-- how do I change her behavior?

At 8. would be reasonable that you still help her take a shower.

How about finding an activity she likes? It sounds like all your focus is on your athletic son and none on her. How about a sewing or art class? Yoga? Even a lot of girls are into fencing (or at least in our class its at least half girls). Lots of things you could try with her and give her success.

Pp here- we give both older kids same attention for good and bad behaviot--both would get in trouble for bad behavior. She doesn't listen and she does things that get her in trouble. My 12 year old son helps with the baby- is gentle and helps- she is so rough, she always makes him cry. We have works with her to show her how to read to him, play with his toys. We have told her he's too heavy to hold him, let's just play with him and she'll come barreling in, pick him up and he falls.
But it's not just with him- it's getting ready in morning - every morning- she complains and argues about her lunch, breakfast, misses the bus- we all start the day the same hoping for the best- but by time we get to bus or have to drive her, we are all upset. Dealing with her in morning, actually means my older son gets no help- we are all focused on dealing with her.
She can be super sweet and great little athlete- we try to make huge deal at all her accomplishments, but day to day is tough to not yell at her 75% of the time.

So her older brother is an "all star" and she's regularly yelled at because she's interacting with the baby in the wrong way.

How would you feel if you were her?

My son is academic and sports all star competitive athlete so have lots of stuff going on for him

He shouldn't get more attention. Even if his activities are more interesting, engaging.

"The quickest way to change your child's behavior is to change your own behavior."

Anonymous wrote:You should take a Dr Shapiro parenting class - he is wonderful and will really help you connect with her where she's at. It would be easier to figure out if anything is going on with her when you have strengthened your bond. I have similar chaos in my house with a big family and the middle kids do often get lost in the shuffle. I'm not being snarky by suggesting a parenting class (I apologize if it comes off that way). It was a game changing experience in our family though and I can't recommend it highly enough.

+1

This was my first thought. You jumped to something being wrong with her. As the parent, you need to find out if there is something wrong with you first.

You should take a Dr Shapiro parenting class - he is wonderful and will really help you connect with her where she's at. It would be easier to figure out if anything is going on with her when you have strengthened your bond. I have similar chaos in my house with a big family and the middle kids do often get lost in the shuffle. I'm not being snarky by suggesting a parenting class (I apologize if it comes off that way). It was a game changing experience in our family though and I can't recommend it highly enough.

I agree that she needs more of your attention even if there's an underlying problem. It might take a while to change the behaviors she's learned, especially seeking negative attention. Don't be dismayed or give up if she does better for a little while, then reverts to her old ways. Be patient and consistent.

Also, the posters who said if she behaves well in school, it isn't add. Some kids are only able to hold themselves together during school, then they have nothing left to give at home and do a poor job listening at home. ADD is a complicated beast, and if you don't have personal experience with it, it's hard to understand. It sounds like a convenient excuse, but it's real and it's so difficult to manage, especially if you're not supported or medicated.

It is also very common for kids going through puberty to lose their minds. Things they used to do well, they no longer do well. Skills they used to have seem to evaporate. The child who in 5th grade managed her homework without a problem loses her agenda book 3 times in the space of 5 minutes in 7th grade.

Structure helps a lot. Actually making sure she's heard and understands you're asking something of her when you ask her to come take care of her shoes. Although, catching her as she's taking them off and reminding her shoes go in the shoe cubby in the foyer works best.

Yes you are right- I'll take the advice and set aside 15 minutes time with her each night- and yes, I have three kids but being tired is no excuse. I'll make this priority starting Monday- I'm out of town on business trip right now.
Also, will try to give a lot of positive reinforcement and see if that helps things improve before going to Doctor.
I hope this is just the need for more attention. I just didn't want to use that as excuse if there was bigger issue preventing her from minding, listening and behaving.
Will see about getting sitter to take baby some so I can invest time with older kids. Grandmas live out of state- and nanny is also preoccupied with toddler so maybe a sitter to come on weekend and I can take her to lunch or a movie.
Thx for advice--

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Me again. And I'm guilty of the asking 11x to do something thing. But I notice, when it gets that far, it doesn't mean she's not paying attention, it means I'M not paying attention. I'm asking her while multitasking, or I'm feeling tired/lazy and don't want to actually enforce the consequences, etc, etc.

Yes I am stretched thin and maybe I don't handle discipline well - good point- but I can say she doesn't seem to be phased by punishment - part of the frustration.
If she doesn't put her shoes away, what should I do? If she doesn't take her shower after asking her three times ( last night's fight) what do I do? Yelling or taking away iPad doesn't work-- how do I change her behavior?

Any attention is better than no attention so she is getting her needs met by not doing things and you reacting. Be very consistent and stop yelling. No more punishments. Have her earn things like iPad for good behavior. She can have 30 minutes at night if she does what she is asked, within reason that day. You are making everything negative and that is the only attention she gets. Stop multitasking and make her your priority. You can't feel lazy or tired when you have three kids. You have to deal with it and make it work. You also need to set aside 10-15 minutes before bed or sometime where she gets your undivided attention.