Anonymous
09/18/2016 23:57
Subject: Re:Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
I belong to a very conservative sect but my views differ from many of my friends and family. I have learned that in order to keep my frienships that I started as a child, I need to let issues rest. I had to come to the understanding that my friend and I would never see eye-to-eye on some issues, but I didn't want that to mean we weren't going to be friends anymore. Of course, we both had to realize this, and agree to not talk about the things that we got fired up about and butted heads about.
Because of my background, I can understand how your friend doesn't want her in your life. Religious people are like this sometimes, and it's really sad. Over time, she might change, and you can leave the door open for her to continue your friendship. My advice would be to not keep talking about the abortion issue, but let her know by a letter she can keep and re-read what her friendship means to you, and that you'll always be there.
Maybe she might change her mind on the issue if she has someone close to her that goes through an experience similar. Sometimes experiences are the only things that can change people.
Because of my background, I can understand how your friend doesn't want her in your life. Religious people are like this sometimes, and it's really sad. Over time, she might change, and you can leave the door open for her to continue your friendship. My advice would be to not keep talking about the abortion issue, but let her know by a letter she can keep and re-read what her friendship means to you, and that you'll always be there.
Maybe she might change her mind on the issue if she has someone close to her that goes through an experience similar. Sometimes experiences are the only things that can change people.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 23:56
Subject: Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
Anonymous wrote:Her judgement of you is pretty un-Christ-like. I have to think in the same situation, Jesus would have given the poor girl a ride home.
There are a number of Catholics who seem to not hear the bible readings on Sundays.
I agree with this. It's not really her position to judge, right? That's up to God. And wasn't this 20 something years ago? It's not now.
See if she'd see a priest with you. I'm sorry. Religion should unite, not divide.
my guess is Marie is generally unhappy. This is just how she chooses to exhibit it right now.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 23:43
Subject: Re:Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
OP, you seem like a really kind person.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 22:00
Subject: Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
I echo a lot of the advice in this thread, and would like to add this - OP, do not act from a position of emotional need and/or desperation.
Please accept that you and your kids will be absolutely fine even if Marie never responds to any overtures you make. Truly accept that letting go of such a old friend, with such deeply knit ties in your family's social life, isn't actually a catastrophe.
Nothing in this world is permanent and many, many best friendships aren't either. Your children are also just that - children. They will likely have many more friendships in their future.
So while I do hope you manage to reconcile with your friend Marie, I hope you don't act from a position of fear and that you only resume a friendship with Marie where she shows respect for your life choices, your boundaries, and your opinions. Anything less than that, and she is unfortunately not what I would call "close friend" material.
Please do not lower your standards of self-respect, and how you expect to be treated, based on your anxiety about getting your friend back. If she cannot treat you with respect, she shouldn't be your friend.
Please accept that you and your kids will be absolutely fine even if Marie never responds to any overtures you make. Truly accept that letting go of such a old friend, with such deeply knit ties in your family's social life, isn't actually a catastrophe.
Nothing in this world is permanent and many, many best friendships aren't either. Your children are also just that - children. They will likely have many more friendships in their future.
So while I do hope you manage to reconcile with your friend Marie, I hope you don't act from a position of fear and that you only resume a friendship with Marie where she shows respect for your life choices, your boundaries, and your opinions. Anything less than that, and she is unfortunately not what I would call "close friend" material.
Please do not lower your standards of self-respect, and how you expect to be treated, based on your anxiety about getting your friend back. If she cannot treat you with respect, she shouldn't be your friend.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:44
Subject: Re:Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You do know that you aren't actually pro-life, right? It sounds like you are anti-abortion but that you don't think it should be illegal, since you recognize that there are times that abortion is justified (for non Catholics is a huge exception!)
So you can tell your friend that while you don't think abortion could be the right choice for you, Tonya thought it was the right choice for her, and you support her right to make the choice herself.
Thank you for the advice. I've tried that approach and while Marie gets that she feels I'm a horrible person for giving her a ride. She says I should have left her at McDonalds and not been implicit in keeping her secret. So I don't know what to do. Maybe she needs to cool way down before I approach her again.
I am actually prolife though. I think it should be illegal with exceptions. I also believe that I can't push my religion on anyone else so if someone is a non Catholic they have their beliefs and I have my own. Its hard to explain but I feel like sin is sin. Sin is all offensive to God no matter what it is or how we as humans categorize it.
I am not going to judge an individual for making a choice. I judge a society and government that allows its. If that makes sense.
This.
I really do hope it works out with your friend, but please realize that by believing abortion should be illegal you are pushing yours/the Catholic/Conservative Christian belief onto others.
Signed,
A pro choice woman who would not choose abortion for myself but would not vote to take away that choice from another woman.
So if you don't think you can push your religion on other people, why would you think that abortion should be illegal for all? Isn't that the very definition of pushing your beliefs on other people?
There are plenty of people who think Capital punishment should be illegal but would not judge the parent of a victim for wanting it to be legal.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:43
Subject: Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
Her judgement of you is pretty un-Christ-like. I have to think in the same situation, Jesus would have given the poor girl a ride home.
There are a number of Catholics who seem to not hear the bible readings on Sundays.
There are a number of Catholics who seem to not hear the bible readings on Sundays.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:42
Subject: Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
I'm surprised your friend has got to midlife with such a black and white view. I know it must be difficult for you, but good riddance to ignorant friends with zero sense of empathy.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:38
Subject: Re:Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
^^^ quote fail
Anyway , hope you can make sense of it...
Anyway , hope you can make sense of it...
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:36
Subject: Re:Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You do know that you aren't actually pro-life, right? It sounds like you are anti-abortion but that you don't think it should be illegal, since you recognize that there are times that abortion is justified (for non Catholics is a huge exception!)
So you can tell your friend that while you don't think abortion could be the right choice for you, Tonya thought it was the right choice for her, and you support her right to make the choice herself.
Thank you for the advice. I've tried that approach and while Marie gets that she feels I'm a horrible person for giving her a ride. She says I should have left her at McDonalds and not been implicit in keeping her secret. So I don't know what to do. Maybe she needs to cool way down before I approach her again.
I am actually prolife though. I think it should be illegal with exceptions. I also believe that I can't push my religion on anyone else so if someone is a non Catholic they have their beliefs and I have my own. Its hard to explain but I feel like sin is sin. Sin is all offensive to God no matter what it is or how we as humans categorize it.
I am not going to judge an individual for making a choice. I judge a society and government that allows its. If that makes sense.
This.
I really do hope it works out with your friend, but please realize that by believing abortion should be illegal you are pushing yours/the Catholic/Conservative Christian belief onto others.
Signed,
A pro choice woman who would not choose abortion for myself but would not vote to take away that choice from another woman.
So if you don't think you can push your religion on other people, why would you think that abortion should be illegal for all? Isn't that the very definition of pushing your beliefs on other people?
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:34
Subject: Re:Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
OP,
I was raised Catholic, so I understand where you're coming from. Regardless of your or Marie's feelings about abortion, Marie has no right to be passing judgement on another person. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
I'm sorry that Marie's holding some kind of weird grudge against you, but have you considered that she may be mentally ill? She is upset that you that you didn't say something 20 years ago about another person's actions that were not illegal at the time. She's not a priest, she's not the Pope. This is not a Catholic-thing. It's a control thing.
I was raised Catholic, so I understand where you're coming from. Regardless of your or Marie's feelings about abortion, Marie has no right to be passing judgement on another person. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
I'm sorry that Marie's holding some kind of weird grudge against you, but have you considered that she may be mentally ill? She is upset that you that you didn't say something 20 years ago about another person's actions that were not illegal at the time. She's not a priest, she's not the Pope. This is not a Catholic-thing. It's a control thing.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:33
Subject: Re:Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You do know that you aren't actually pro-life, right? It sounds like you are anti-abortion but that you don't think it should be illegal, since you recognize that there are times that abortion is justified (for non Catholics is a huge exception!)
So you can tell your friend that while you don't think abortion could be the right choice for you, Tonya thought it was the right choice for her, and you support her right to make the choice herself.
Thank you for the advice. I've tried that approach and while Marie gets that she feels I'm a horrible person for giving her a ride. She says I should have left her at McDonalds and not been implicit in keeping her secret. So I don't know what to do. Maybe she needs to cool way down before I approach her again.
I am actually prolife though. I think it should be illegal with exceptions. I also believe that I can't push my religion on anyone else so if someone is a non Catholic they have their beliefs and I have my own. Its hard to explain but I feel like sin is sin. Sin is all offensive to God no matter what it is or how we as humans categorize it.
I am not going to judge an individual for making a choice. I judge a society and government that allows its. If that makes sense.
So if you don't think you can push your religion on other people, why would you think that abortion should be illegal for all? Isn't that the very definition of pushing your beliefs on other people?
I didn't say abortion should be illegal for all.
I don't want this to turn into a prolife/choice debate - please.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:28
Subject: Re:Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
I think the idea of visiting a priest together is the best path.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:27
Subject: Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
Anonymous wrote:I have never heard any Catholic argue that abortion is ok if you aren't Catholic. That's an odd position.
I'm Catholic and prolife. I've had friends and family members who have had abortions for a variety of reasons ranging from being teens to feeling unable to parent due to money issues or not having a spouse. I deeply wish they'd made a different choice, but I'm not angry with them. I pray for their babies' eternal rest and for them that they have peace and happiness. A few years ago, I kept a cousin's kids for three days at her request, not knowing that she had gone for an abortion. When I found out later, I felt like I'd been sucked into being complicit in in. My priest said I wasn't responsible even if I had known and decided to keep the kids anyway. He said that I made sure that her kids had a safe, loving place during the days when their mother was unavailable to them whatever her reason. The alternative was that they might have been left to fend for themselves. You took care of your friend when she needed someone. That's not a bad thing.
I am not arguing that abortion is okay if you aren't catholic. I am just not going to judge someone else for their religious choices. If their religion doesn't see abortion as a sin I am not going to judge them for it. I am sorry for the confusion. I was pretty emotional typing all that out.
Thank you for telling me your story. It helps to know that others have been in a similar situation.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:27
Subject: Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
I agree with the suggestion of writing her a letter.
I'd be a bit more forceful in the letter. I'd say you at the time consulted with the priest and that you have a clear conscience. I wouldn't discuss specifics (and I applaud your desire to keep what should be private as private). If Marie were to start in on things, I would simply say, there is more to the story than you know. But please know my conscience is clear. It's not your place to make judgements over this.
If she cannot let it go, you were never true friends.
I'd be a bit more forceful in the letter. I'd say you at the time consulted with the priest and that you have a clear conscience. I wouldn't discuss specifics (and I applaud your desire to keep what should be private as private). If Marie were to start in on things, I would simply say, there is more to the story than you know. But please know my conscience is clear. It's not your place to make judgements over this.
If she cannot let it go, you were never true friends.
Anonymous
09/18/2016 21:25
Subject: Re:Losing a friend I've had for 38 years over religion. I'm so sad about it.
Anonymous wrote:I feel for you OP. You did the right thing by helping someone in need, it's so sad your highly religious friend doesn't see that and can't find any empathy in the situation.
My best advice would be to write her a heartfelt letter about how you know in your heart you did the right thing, that you were counseled on this situation with your priest and that the only one that should be judging your action is God. Go on to tell her how much you care about her and your friendship and that its her choice to throw away this friendship but that you really hope she can find enough love and acceptance in her heart to not do so.
Ultimately if she ends the friendship over this, you should briefly mourn it as a loss but move on because it would be toxic to keep pursuing it
Second bit of advice about writing a letter. Definitely going to try this. Thank you so much.
Marie is a really passionate and a "hot head". I don't fault her for her personality. I am also thinking about our children they have all become very good friends.