Anonymous wrote::28. I am jewish. This made me cry.

I was raised conservative and was nodding as I read about your use of goy. Though the way my mother always used it was to put down someone who was non-Jewish in a tacky way (think Real Housewives of Jersey). Now that I'm an adult I find her judgment tacky.

I am so sorry you were made to feel "other."

Thanks, you are sweet. It all adds to the fabric of who we are, so I feel kind of lucky to have had an observer's seat in a weird way- I kind of decided that was the gift in light of other not so great things.

Sure, I understand exactly what was said by our parents. That's what my parents did: " She acts like a 'shicksa" " Such a goyim thing to do."

It was a way to culturally separate everyone and to preserve the culture, but for most children in my generation (not adopted or adopted) it did not work. We were the first to marry out ( in the 70s and 80s) - sometimes with great trauma to the family, but, at least with those that I know, no one was disowned. No one. Those kids kids had kids who married Jews and Non- Jews, and many married outside of the race. Most seem to practice or keep the culture, some more of the religion than others, but it is not gone. The world progresses. So, the question is this: is Judaism dying because we cannot preserve that cultural boundary line? No. Judaism is being rebranded and reformulated to reflect a educated, pluralistic, non-mysogenistic society. Reform and Conservative Judaism does not look like Orthodox practice at all. I've been to Bar Mitzvahs and weddings that really do not even resemble anything traditional in style or liturgy. Sometimes I think it looks like "not Christian" more than " different Jewish." Whatever it is , this generation will continue to progress in ways that do not resemble the culture of Europe in the 1800s, and the Orthodox will continue to strive to keep it. What that will look like in 20 years will be quite interesting, but even the Orthodox will have a hard time with the bloodline thing- surrogate eggs, carriers, IVF, conversions, adoption- I mean, the gig is up, they will have to progress eventually, too.

I'm not angry at my parents (now) at all.If they were here, they would explain that they were raised in fear, through WWII, and the things they said and did to try and preserve their culture were based in survival. They grew up in extremely observant homes and they were the ones to figure out how to assimilate with non-Jews because they left their city shtetels and worked as professionals in the world. They didn't socialize out of their community, but they did work out of their community. Their parents lived in little insular communities and had shops, small businesses, etc...only within the Jewish community. So, our parents made some mistakes in how to do it in some ways, and I guess there were casualties, but like every revolution, there will be casualties. I think it's interesting that parents today, people in their 30s, who are Jewish and not orthodox, might still wonder or worry about the genetic aspect of it.

Meanwhile, one of my kids has an appearance that doesn't scream "non-Jew." In fact, when she tells people she's Jewish, no one has ever questioned it. As a result, she and her kids will go through life without anyone questioning it, so she could easily live in Israel, marry anyone, participate in religion, etc. if she wanted to. She is not genetically Jewish at all. It would only be questioned if she volunteered that her mother was adopted and was not Jewish, or maybe if someone saw me and instantly would question it, so how will that be prevented in this generation, or future generations? It cannot. We will all move on.

OP - this is an interesting thread about an important --and as far as I know - little known issue about which it is now clear many people do have experience/opinions. Thank you for having the courage to bring it up for the benefit of all here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your child can equally grow up to become an Atheist. You have no control over his/her belief as an adult. All you can do is raise your child the best you can in the Jewish faith and hope for the best outcome. I was raised in a christian home, while I still belief in God I question most of the religious practices. I don't attend church as much as an adult. My mom is not happy about this but she can't really do anything about it.

You are missing the point of Judaism. I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish by culture and heritage. I do not practice the religion and am atheist in beliefs, but Judaism in in my bloodlines.

Well, if you're obsessed with bloodlines, then you will be very disappointed with adoption...

We successfully adopted. There are many disappointments, none directly related to our child and our child is an joy. You missed the point.

A lot of couples are very focused on having a biological child because that genetic connection is important to them. This is not something unique to the Jewish faith. Couples considering adoption have to give up this biological connection - that's why I think it's a huge red flag when there is an disproportionate focus on bloodlines and the right ancestry.

That said, I'm glad adoption worked out well for your family. I hope it ends up working out for OP as well.

Not the same issue as others wanting a biological connection. You would need to be Jewish to understand. However, you are correct about the genetic longing....but it's a different context.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your child can equally grow up to become an Atheist. You have no control over his/her belief as an adult. All you can do is raise your child the best you can in the Jewish faith and hope for the best outcome. I was raised in a christian home, while I still belief in God I question most of the religious practices. I don't attend church as much as an adult. My mom is not happy about this but she can't really do anything about it.

You are missing the point of Judaism. I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish by culture and heritage. I do not practice the religion and am atheist in beliefs, but Judaism in in my bloodlines.

Well, if you're obsessed with bloodlines, then you will be very disappointed with adoption...

We successfully adopted. There are many disappointments, none directly related to our child and our child is an joy. You missed the point.

A lot of couples are very focused on having a biological child because that genetic connection is important to them. This is not something unique to the Jewish faith. Couples considering adoption have to give up this biological connection - that's why I think it's a huge red flag when there is an disproportionate focus on bloodlines and the right ancestry.

That said, I'm glad adoption worked out well for your family. I hope it ends up working out for OP as well.

My DH was adopted. He was raised Episcopalian. He is as an adult,fully atheist.

Another (adopted) family member was raised Catholic and as an adult chose to be - --- atheist.

So, it won't matter what you do OP, if your kid is inclined to reject their religion of raising, they'll do it. Or not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it will be any issue. Conversion of infants/toddlers is really no big deal, and you will raise the child as your own Jewish child. They will not know any different. At our synagogue there are children who are Asian, Hispanic, and Black. No one bats an eye. Adoption is quite common here nowadays.

Plenty of born Jews ha astray of Judaism once they get older for a variety of reasons. It's an issue in Judaism as a whole because it's such a small community.
I wouldn't let this Dowcourage you from adopting. It's not like your kid won't know they are adopted.

I agree with these sentiments and I would add that some children and some parents don't see eye-to-eye on lifestyle, religion, culture, values, and more and it's not because of any specific reason as much as people are different and they think for themselves. Children who are raised in families that love them and respect them -- no matter what orientation and world view their parents have--may or may not accept those values when they grow up. My brother and I are adopted from Korea and raised very WASP. I am quite WASPY and married an Irish-German protestant, he affiliates more with his Korean heritage and married a Korean-American.

I would not be afraid to have or adopt a child and raise them in a loving manner is any faith or any set of values, as long as you are prepared to be able to respect that they may elect a different orientation and world view when they grow up.

My BFF is Jewish and she adopted an African American boy. Every summer they go to this camp: http://www.jta.org/2014/08/18/life-religion/where-jews-of-color-go-to-feel-normal-at-summer-camp

In some ways, being a completely different race- Asian, African, is easier. I'm not suggesting that the child will have it easy-there will be weird comments, people say really ignorant things, because really adoption is poorly understood to begin with and Judaism is also poorly understood ( you can read some of the questions above about why this is a problem...) but everyone will understand, including the child, about what happened here. It's when parents try to ignore that aspect and keep hoping the child will "pass" for Jewish and make a deal about the genetic aspect. That's the danger zone.

And how ridiculous this is now, anyway? I have two colleagues who used DONOR eggs to get pregnant. I know it, and few people know it and yes, by Jewish law , those kids are Jewish. But , there is not a bloodline there if one wants to get technical. Let's not get technical- we should be beyond this stuff.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it will be any issue. Conversion of infants/toddlers is really no big deal, and you will raise the child as your own Jewish child. They will not know any different. At our synagogue there are children who are Asian, Hispanic, and Black. No one bats an eye. Adoption is quite common here nowadays.

Plenty of born Jews ha astray of Judaism once they get older for a variety of reasons. It's an issue in Judaism as a whole because it's such a small community.
I wouldn't let this Dowcourage you from adopting. It's not like your kid won't know they are adopted.

I agree with these sentiments and I would add that some children and some parents don't see eye-to-eye on lifestyle, religion, culture, values, and more and it's not because of any specific reason as much as people are different and they think for themselves. Children who are raised in families that love them and respect them -- no matter what orientation and world view their parents have--may or may not accept those values when they grow up. My brother and I are adopted from Korea and raised very WASP. I am quite WASPY and married an Irish-German protestant, he affiliates more with his Korean heritage and married a Korean-American.

I would not be afraid to have or adopt a child and raise them in a loving manner is any faith or any set of values, as long as you are prepared to be able to respect that they may elect a different orientation and world view when they grow up.

My BFF is Jewish and she adopted an African American boy. Every summer they go to this camp: http://www.jta.org/2014/08/18/life-religion/where-jews-of-color-go-to-feel-normal-at-summer-camp

Bechol Lashon is a group for Jews of many ethnicities, and many adoptees and their families are members. Getting to know folks who've had similar experiences to what your child might go through could help you decide if adoption is right for your family.

:28. I am jewish. This made me cry.

I was raised conservative and was nodding as I read about your use of goy. Though the way my mother always used it was to put down someone who was non-Jewish in a tacky way (think Real Housewives of Jersey). Now that I'm an adult I find her judgment tacky.

I am so sorry you were made to feel "other."

I am an adoptee raised in a Jewish home. I was adopted at 7 days old- so I knew nothing else. I am not young, so all this went down many years ago. I do not look the part at all, and yes, it was an issue growing up. There were two issues- that it was obvious that I was adopted, and the the Jewish thing. The Jewish thing was really more of an issue because of course, my parents' generation were children from the old country (1st generation or immigrants) or lost their family members in the Holocaust. During my childhood, there was very little intermarriage, and socializing was very homogenous as well. Our entire neighborhood was Jewish and my extended family lived in Jewish neighborhoods along the east coast.

I was schooled in day schools and was and then after school cheders, but I really was singled out and, many times, overtly snubbed- even before I could understand why. Hebrew school was taught largely by the Orthodox in the area, and bloodlines were,and still are very very important to them- bloodlines and family lines are integral to that culture. Of course, I was too young to understand why I was being ostracized and excepted from things- it was palpable but a child would have to understand the whole idea of culture, religion, ethnicity, and the way people looked vis a vis their ethnicity. I didn't know anything but my world. My refection in the mirror did provide a huge disconnect. In my mind, I looked different than what was in front of me.

My family and their extended families, and many of their contemporaries slowly became Conservative, and many more became Reform over a long period of years,but the insular factor remained. My parents, and my friends' parents worked diligently to instill that culture imperative- friendships outside of the religion were discouraged, dating outside was verboten entirely. My parents were highly educated, yet said things about "the goyim" to make sure we understood there was "us" and they were "them." As a teenager, it occurred to me one quiet afternoon that I was actually "them." The "them" that was not approved of, not chosen, not socialized with. It was a poignant moment that ushered in a rush of realization about everything. Of course, my parents' generation believed in kind of the tabula rasa theory- that all is wiped clean with paper work- once you were adopted that meant you were what your family was. When I would ask what I was, they said " You are Russian/Polish of course!" I was NOT what I was- ever. And some of that was designed to be a security for the child-that this was their world and that the child belonged here and nowhere else. But-let's face it, paperwork is paperwork and nothing else. Oh yeah, I was all "converted" as a toddler in a conservative conversion. Water is water, and nothing else.
I was an easygoing kid, no emotional issues that were played out because of this or anything. I was not rebellious. My first big crush at school (in high school) was not Jewish and my parents went into a tailspin. It was a horrible thing I had done. It was so ridiculous.

So here's the thing: It's many years later. Intermarriage is very prevalent- my friends married whomever they wanted- we opened the possibility of such) and have kids of all colors, and their kids have kids of all colors and ethnicities. They practice a range of Judaism in terms of observance. I think you are that age- in your 30s. Reform and Conservative Judaism is very inclusive- they aren't dwelling in bloodline issues. The orthodox, however, still are, and it's just as intense as it ever was, so if you are Orthodox, stop reading here. It's a whole other ballgame. The posters above who are wondering about why you are thinking about religion do not understand how Judaism works- how culture, religion, ethnicity,and appearance all interplay.

Adopt your baby. If you are raising your family as Jewish- fine. But you are raising your child in a RELIGION- nothing you do can change his/her genetic line and that was what was missing in previous generations- the acceptance of such. The child's culture and race, if it is different, should not be sublimated or dismissed. You can do both. And I'm not just referring to race. You might be brown eyed and brown haired,and your child might be a tow head with blue eyes. Yes, deal with that as perfectly normal,and that yeah, we all know- you, the child, the world, that this was not a biological event, but a family event. Put it RIGHT OUT THERE in a non-dramamtic way...and take that elephant out of the room. In the end your child will choose his religion, but his ethnicity should always be there, and yes, he will know that the two conflict in ways that are not always culturally pure, but he will have plenty of company. And he can be Korean, Irish, or whatever and still be Jewish as an adult if he wants to.

Me? I am culturally Jewish, however in practicing the dogma - well, not so much. When i go to synagogue for any reason, people stop to overly "explain" things to me- so, even now I still do not look the part. It cracks my husband up. But- for not being religious- I think that would have been me no matter where I landed. I am an iconoclast by nature. Yeah, I married a goy. He speaks more Yiddish now than most people I know. My kids- who are YOUR age- have not a drop of Jewish blood (we've done the genetic tests) yet when asked, always say " Jewish."

I've met many of my biological relatives. They look like me, they have the same sense of humor as me, and I like them- but they aren't my family. My family are the people that raised me- the culture I have is how I was raised, my world perspective is all that I know. But it would have been very nice to have that elephant in the room acknowledged instead of denigrated....it would have made all the difference. Different time-different generation. You really have nothing to be concerned about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your child can equally grow up to become an Atheist. You have no control over his/her belief as an adult. All you can do is raise your child the best you can in the Jewish faith and hope for the best outcome. I was raised in a christian home, while I still belief in God I question most of the religious practices. I don't attend church as much as an adult. My mom is not happy about this but she can't really do anything about it.

You are missing the point of Judaism. I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish by culture and heritage. I do not practice the religion and am atheist in beliefs, but Judaism in in my bloodlines.

Well, if you're obsessed with bloodlines, then you will be very disappointed with adoption...

We successfully adopted. There are many disappointments, none directly related to our child and our child is an joy. You missed the point.

I think whether or not the child feels accepted by the family is distinct from whether the child feels Jewish. If you emphasize that Judaism is about bloodlines, it will likely cause insecurity in a child who is adopted, esp. If he or she is also not white and therefore, visibly not Ashkenazi.

My DC is 49% Ashkenazi via Dad, but visibly not white. Attending shul with grandparents means dealing with a lot of probing questions. Some are well meant, but still intrusive. Others are meant to establish "You aren't really one of us."

Why is the religion of your imaginary child chooses as an adult an issue now?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your child can equally grow up to become an Atheist. You have no control over his/her belief as an adult. All you can do is raise your child the best you can in the Jewish faith and hope for the best outcome. I was raised in a christian home, while I still belief in God I question most of the religious practices. I don't attend church as much as an adult. My mom is not happy about this but she can't really do anything about it.

You are missing the point of Judaism. I am Jewish. I will always be Jewish by culture and heritage. I do not practice the religion and am atheist in beliefs, but Judaism in in my bloodlines.

Well, if you're obsessed with bloodlines, then you will be very disappointed with adoption...

I know so many Jewish men who married Christian women, so it's not guaranteed even if you have a biological child. Mostly the couples are secular but celebrate the big holidays with their kids.

I also know many people who were raised in very religious Christian homes who are very agnostic now. They never go to church and celebrate Christmas and Easter along the lines of the cultural nonreligious Santa/Easter bunny tradition.

Accept that there are no guarantees no matter how you choose to raise your kids.