OP here. The title of the post was rude and a little inflammatory. I apologize. Poor choice of words. I started this thread, not to pit charter and DCPS but because there seems to be a double standard when it comes to not so stellar test scores from DCPS Title I schools. Take JO Wilson as an example, only because I saw some recent no-so-flattering comments about the school. The test scores are on par with some of these charters. 24% ELA and 35% math. Yet, when someone wanted feedback about the school, everyone jumped on the poster saying it was a terrible school and never to enroll their child there. Why? It seems to have some pretty good programs too. It's not just JO Wilson but you can plug in a lot of DCPS Title I schools that are doing just as well, if not better than these HRCS like Marie Reed, Barnard, Thomson. Yet, when anyone suggests enrolling their child at one of these schools, you get the most negative feedback. Why? And why are the waitlists for these other schools into the hundreds?

Anonymous wrote:Because lots of adults value living in the city, being really close to work, and being able to walk to urban amenities. In order to get that they're willing to compromise and send their kids to schools that are so-so when compared to the overall Washington metro area, but "good" for DC.

I'm sincerely not trying to be judgmental. But I think that's the main reason.

Also, some of us are just smarter. My child's school's scores are high. Our house is large. We love our cool neighborhood (I used to live in Upper Caucasia, and it's even worse than it sounds - I say that as a blonde person). Some HRCs are popular because parents made the right choices. Have you looked at the bitterness thread about the Janney parents, their 30+ children per classroom experience, and awful scores?

Be smart: pick the right school. And if you can't get lucky, go private.

Because lots of adults value living in the city, being really close to work, and being able to walk to urban amenities. In order to get that they're willing to compromise and send their kids to schools that are so-so when compared to the overall Washington metro area, but "good" for DC.

I'm sincerely not trying to be judgmental. But I think that's the main reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The test scores for MV, CMI, and IT. There are a number of DCPS Title I schools with huge populations of ELL and at-risk kids doing better. So why are these charters so popular?

Aren't MV, CMI and IT desired for ECE right now, with the hope/expectation that test scores will improve over time? I think a lot of the debates on this site just boil down to the folks who are convinced that things are static (same old, nothing ever changes) and those that see the current educational picture in the city as very dynamic and evolving along with the rapidly changing housing/demographics. Truth is probably in between.

Yes.

Anonymous wrote:The test scores for MV, CMI, and IT. There are a number of DCPS Title I schools with huge populations of ELL and at-risk kids doing better. So why are these charters so popular?

Aren't MV, CMI and IT desired for ECE right now, with the hope/expectation that test scores will improve over time? I think a lot of the debates on this site just boil down to the folks who are convinced that things are static (same old, nothing ever changes) and those that see the current educational picture in the city as very dynamic and evolving along with the rapidly changing housing/demographics. Truth is probably in between.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All parents don't equally value a school that teaches to the test, or at least they don't equally prioritize that over other factors. Especially true of white and higher SES but not limited to those demographics.

This is worth repeating. Have you noticed private schools don't test at all? Hello?! Testing is for poor students to make sure their schools continue to get $$. Parents who care about education may care somewhat about test scores but aren't obsessed by them.

THIS. Parents who choose these types are charters are not focus on test scores (which is why these types of schools don't teach to the test and are working on other things).

Anonymous wrote:You've got to look deeper. DC Charter AA students on average score 24% in ELA, DCPS 15%. Math is 23% for charter vs 12.9% in DCPS.
Charters clearly do better educating our AA kids.
None of the schools you mention (ITS, CMI, MV) have a large enough population to even report white student performance. ITS had 132 test takers in 3rd-7th grade, ITS has hardly any Asian or Hispanic students. Thus, at least 93 out of the test takers at ITS were AA (70%). The fact that more than 2/3 the school is black and they scored 32% in Math when the statewide average (charter and DCPS) for AA students is only 19.3% should tell you more of the story. MV had 128 test takers that means, ditto.

Yes, when you look at raw numbers, I could see how an uneducated would surmise that these “HRCS” are poor. Look a little deeper and you may find what you’re looking for. Call it excuse or call it facts. That’s up to you.

Don't forget, a school like MV aimed to get a lot of spanish speaking families in the first year. May of the testable grades are ELL. CMI reached out in the first two years to many families that were SN because of the fact that it was an inclusion school. Many of the testable grades have a high precentage of SN children. Sure - you could look at the scores and make a gloss over statment, but also isn't this only the third testing year for both of these schools in general as well?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All parents don't equally value a school that teaches to the test, or at least they don't equally prioritize that over other factors. Especially true of white and higher SES but not limited to those demographics.

This is worth repeating. Have you noticed private schools don't test at all? Hello?! Testing is for poor students to make sure their schools continue to get $$. Parents who care about education may care somewhat about test scores but aren't obsessed by them.

There's a lot of pressure on all charters to maintain or achieve Tier 1 status from the DCPCSB (those rankings took a 1-year hiatus with the shift to PARCC). The ranking is made up of more than just test scores, but they do matter for funding (especially for outside donors), charter renewal and to be considered candidates for replication.

More on the PMF, from which the Tier rankings are derived. http://www.dcpcsb.org/sites/default/files/The%20Performance%20Management%20Framework%20Overview%20for%20web%202.12.16.pdf

Yep expect a lot of Saturday test prep classes coming our way. I'll be fine with this - just don't interrupt actual teaching during the week.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol When poor kids don't do well it's because the school sucks. When high see kids don't do well it's a flawed test. Emperor's New Clothes

families at these schools know whether they suck or not. It is likely also true that families at title 1 schools know whether they suck or not - sometimes families fight hard to keep these school open despite their low test scores. I believe we should listen to these families too and not just dismiss them. Parents know whether a school is good or not.

For HRCS, the most important number is retention between 1st and 4th grade. If they are loosing kids in droves after the PK-k churn, the school has problems. If the classes are fairly stable (just a few leaving for better ns feeder patterns), then the school is good despite the test scores. Parents there know whether the school is good just like you (if your kids are in in 1st or above) know how much and well your kid is learning.

Sounds like the lament of Coolidge, HS. It should be closed and given to a charter or sold to a developer for condos. The idea that taxpayers should spend over $100 MILLION dollars to fail to educate (and that is EXACTLY what Coolidge will do) approximately 300 students is a slap in the face. Marrion Barry lives on y'all.

P.S. The Principal and a Teacher were arrested for having a fight in the school parking lot. The ONLY reason this school is being renovated is because of geriatric voters in Mayor Bowwow's original ward. They'll be dead or displaced by the time it happens, and then we'll be left another Eastern: an expensive mistake.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All parents don't equally value a school that teaches to the test, or at least they don't equally prioritize that over other factors. Especially true of white and higher SES but not limited to those demographics.

This is worth repeating. Have you noticed private schools don't test at all? Hello?! Testing is for poor students to make sure their schools continue to get $$. Parents who care about education may care somewhat about test scores but aren't obsessed by them.

Wrong. Most private schools in the DC area administer the ERBs so parents can see how their students compare to other private school students across the country.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All parents don't equally value a school that teaches to the test, or at least they don't equally prioritize that over other factors. Especially true of white and higher SES but not limited to those demographics.

This is worth repeating. Have you noticed private schools don't test at all? Hello?! Testing is for poor students to make sure their schools continue to get $$. Parents who care about education may care somewhat about test scores but aren't obsessed by them.

There's a lot of pressure on all charters to maintain or achieve Tier 1 status from the DCPCSB (those rankings took a 1-year hiatus with the shift to PARCC). The ranking is made up of more than just test scores, but they do matter for funding (especially for outside donors), charter renewal and to be considered candidates for replication.

More on the PMF, from which the Tier rankings are derived. http://www.dcpcsb.org/sites/default/files/The%20Performance%20Management%20Framework%20Overview%20for%20web%202.12.16.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as you folks keep treating education like it's a fight where if you win, I lose - then we all lose.

Congrats - "your" test scores are high. Isn't that enough?

At our "HRCS" (a name made up in a farce DCUM thread) we are continuing to work on our testable grades. Not sure why you take joy in a school not doing well. Seems...off putting.

I don't think OP is "taking joy" in this. She's just asking the question which I think needs to be asked loud and clear.

and OP is getting loud and clear answers

Anonymous wrote:All parents don't equally value a school that teaches to the test, or at least they don't equally prioritize that over other factors. Especially true of white and higher SES but not limited to those demographics.

This is worth repeating. Have you noticed private schools don't test at all? Hello?! Testing is for poor students to make sure their schools continue to get $$. Parents who care about education may care somewhat about test scores but aren't obsessed by them.

You've got to look deeper. DC Charter AA students on average score 24% in ELA, DCPS 15%. Math is 23% for charter vs 12.9% in DCPS.
Charters clearly do better educating our AA kids.
None of the schools you mention (ITS, CMI, MV) have a large enough population to even report white student performance. ITS had 132 test takers in 3rd-7th grade, ITS has hardly any Asian or Hispanic students. Thus, at least 93 out of the test takers at ITS were AA (70%). The fact that more than 2/3 the school is black and they scored 32% in Math when the statewide average (charter and DCPS) for AA students is only 19.3% should tell you more of the story. MV had 128 test takers that means, ditto.

Yes, when you look at raw numbers, I could see how an uneducated would surmise that these “HRCS” are poor. Look a little deeper and you may find what you’re looking for. Call it excuse or call it facts. That’s up to you.

Do these same rules apply to other areas (i.e
Prince George's/Montgomery county)? I'm looking to move and a few areas the parents I know love the schools but the scores aren't always the best. How do you decide if you not yet in the school?