Anonymous wrote:This is 17:57 again. OP your post had been upsetting me all day, I swear I am not a troll and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Someone, anyone, has to help all of your nieces and your sister. Those two girls whose mother died need to live somewhere else and the daughter of your living sister needs serious, SERIOUS, therapy. It's not too late. But at some point it might be. Your young niece could have all these mixed emotions and fall into a state of arrested development. She needs a safe environment in which to grow. This may mean you have to step in. I beg you. My cousin's life is ruined beyond compare. It was all over the news in our hometown in the 90s, it tore our family apart, my grandmother died of a stroke over it and my aunt died of a heart attack a few weeks after they sentenced my cousin to decades in jail.

It didn't have to be this way. My aunt was sick, sick in the head, and she projected her problems onto her son with absolutely devastating consequences. I am not suggesting your sister or niece are engaging in the same type of behavior, but the complete lack of personal freedom, space, social norms, condependency, manipulation, mind control, etc, it is abuse. Help them! Please! I wish I had been older to have helped my family. Instead I was a young teen,
Powerless. But you aren't!

+1 I am also very upset. I have a friend who was sexual abused by her mother. Yes, her mother. I don't know how common it is but it does happen. What OP describes sounds so similar to her circumstances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, was your sister or is your sister poor or did she lack access to money?

In addition to the issues related to sexual abuse, I feel like there are often issues related to poverty and guilt. Simple things like taking care of yourself and personal hygiene can seem like frivolous indulgences.

I wouldn't say we grew up poor but our parents struggled financially to provide for us. My sister is now wealthy but she has lived in the same apartment that she used to rent when her daughter was a toddler - 2 bedroom. She has owned the same bed/furniture for as long as I can remember. That explains why she still shares a bed with her daughter.

Her charity works with the poor of the poorest in Africa. Before that she worked with a big international organization that helped with disaster management to mostly places that have been faced with natural calamities or/and civil war. So yes, PP you do bring a good point that taking a shower, living in a decent house might seem overindulging. I now feel like I might have judged her too harshly

This is really concerning. At a minimum buy your niece her own bed.
Would your sister let your niece stay with you for a week without her mother?

I grew up with a SAHM, and she struggles in the world more than some - she has phobias, she was always overprotective of us, she's sheltered, and she could never deal with my emotions and struggled unless they were tangible (like a friend in HS who had cancer).

She did and still does struggle with hygiene - I've never seen her take a shower. Ever. She probably wipes herself down with a washcloth, I don't know, and growing up I remember her washing her hair in the sink sometimes. Her BO isn't as bad as it could be - she uses deodorant and also smokes, which probably masks it. My dad also doesn't really shower, though he might have when I was growing up.

Growing up in that environment, I couldn't learn any differently. In HS I probably showered once a week, and this certainly didn't help the fact that I was struggling with undiagnosed depression. But I thought it was normal. Once we were older, my mom, who still does not work, didn't see the need to care about how she looks because she didn't see people all that often.

I really struggled in college until I started dating my now-husband junior year, and I could see the more normal rhythm of hygiene of adults in the world. There's probably a claim to be made that Americans bathe too much, but there certainly is a minimum level our society has deemed acceptable.

This long answer is all to say it's no wonder your niece doesn't know any better. My sister, who is 11 years younger than me and just moved back home after college, has progressed a little but I was never able to figure out how to help her. We see each other only a couple of times a year and I know she hates it when I spend that time trying to push her to change.

I feel for everyone here, including you, but at some point you're unable to change people. I like the advice to speak to your niece frankly but compassionately when she is at your home, but until you suss out the why, it's tough to just say clean up without it still being a problem.

This is 17:57 again. OP your post had been upsetting me all day, I swear I am not a troll and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Someone, anyone, has to help all of your nieces and your sister. Those two girls whose mother died need to live somewhere else and the daughter of your living sister needs serious, SERIOUS, therapy. It's not too late. But at some point it might be. Your young niece could have all these mixed emotions and fall into a state of arrested development. She needs a safe environment in which to grow. This may mean you have to step in. I beg you. My cousin's life is ruined beyond compare. It was all over the news in our hometown in the 90s, it tore our family apart, my grandmother died of a stroke over it and my aunt died of a heart attack a few weeks after they sentenced my cousin to decades in jail.

It didn't have to be this way. My aunt was sick, sick in the head, and she projected her problems onto her son with absolutely devastating consequences. I am not suggesting your sister or niece are engaging in the same type of behavior, but the complete lack of personal freedom, space, social norms, condependency, manipulation, mind control, etc, it is abuse. Help them! Please! I wish I had been older to have helped my family. Instead I was a young teen,
Powerless. But you aren't!

Please re-read the pp 10000000 times and call CPS.
Just call!

Anonymous wrote:I'm equally concerned about the 15 year old sharing a bed with her mother. With that and the hygiene issues, thus screams mental health problem. This is a hard one. Maybe start with a school counselor?

OP, this sounds a lot like my aunt and male cousin when I was a kid. No dad around, my aunt held a very good job, made tons of money, clung onto her son like a koala bear, he never grew up, never matured, never got independent, was always a child in the head, never had friends, never pushed to shave, bath, wash his hair, etc., if he didn't want to, he was her baby, and they slept in the same bed. Even when he was 17 and over 6 ft tall. it stopped when my cousin was arrested himself for child abuse and put in jail. Now I am still on the fence as to whether my aunt abused him sexually, although it wouldn't surprise me if she had, but at the same time it wouldn't super surprise me if she didn't. What she did do was totally fuck him up in the head, he was her entire world, she never parented him or got him ready for the next step in life to grow up. I'm shocked he was ever potty trained. Since his father left the family, he had no male role model, my aunt never dated anyone else, and she kjust kept the two of them in this cocoon of life. He never had a chance at being remotely normal. None.

I don't know if someone abused him, although with the absent father, sad home life and lack of friends made him a perfect target for a Sandusky type, or whether his sexuality and maturity were so stunted (like that Duggar boy) that he acted out his sexuality in an inappropriate way, but I do think he did some weird and bad stuff to some kids and I am glad he was caught and is in jail. But it may have all been preventable, if my parents or someone else really stood up to my aunt and said you can't do this to this kid. You need help, you need help now, and if you don't get it you leave us no choice but to call CPS. It doesn't have to be physical abuse, or no food in the house, or abandoned children left to fend alone to warrant calling CPS. Your sister is abusing her daughter, and possibly her two nieces in her unhealthy environment. The bed situation alone is enough to call CPS. Please do something. If at the very least, how is this young lady supposed to learn to be independent, live on her own, take care of herself, and live a happy, self sufficient, life. You think she's learning these life skills now? If she can't even bath, what chance does she have?

Anonymous wrote:
OP,

I suspect that your sister has debilitating abandonment anxiety and that is why she is controlling her daughter in this way, so that her daughter is made completely dependent on her and repellent to others so she will never leave her mother.

The long-term solution is to help your niece be self-reliant and eventually help her to move out. For example, your niece could be persuaded to stay with you WITHOUT her mother, and you could show her how to keep herself clean, how to do laundry and cook and keep house and go out and do things.

My mother had some of these tendencies, stemming from a deep but apparently unconscious need to keep me from ever leaving her: she forbade me from going out with my (very well-behaved) friends, she didn't want me to lift a finger in the house, she bought me extra-large clothes and then threw a fit and called me a whore when I bought a tank top and shorts and wore this outfit outside of the house.

My aunts tried to help me, to no avail, because I was socially isolated, had too little self-esteem and was too afraid to go it alone. I do remember their attempts with gratitude, and if you try to help your niece, I'm sure she will thank you for it, whatever happens.

Result - I escaped my mother's house at 20 to live with my boyfriend across the Atlantic. I now hold my mother at arm's length. We see each other once a year for one to two weeks, and in that time span she manages to get on everybody's nerves, even my young kids'.

Yes, I was hoping to stay with her (my niece) this summer but things didn't work out. I will try again next year.

Anonymous wrote:OP, was your sister or is your sister poor or did she lack access to money?

In addition to the issues related to sexual abuse, I feel like there are often issues related to poverty and guilt. Simple things like taking care of yourself and personal hygiene can seem like frivolous indulgences.

I wouldn't say we grew up poor but our parents struggled financially to provide for us. My sister is now wealthy but she has lived in the same apartment that she used to rent when her daughter was a toddler - 2 bedroom. She has owned the same bed/furniture for as long as I can remember. That explains why she still shares a bed with her daughter.

Her charity works with the poor of the poorest in Africa. Before that she worked with a big international organization that helped with disaster management to mostly places that have been faced with natural calamities or/and civil war. So yes, PP you do bring a good point that taking a shower, living in a decent house might seem overindulging. I now feel like I might have judged her too harshly

How are they making your carpet stink? Please explain.

I think you just need to say "Larla, I'm cool with whatever you want to do in your own house, but you should know that not showering is making your body odor pretty bad. So when you come to visit, I'm going to have to insist that you shower."

OP,

I suspect that your sister has debilitating abandonment anxiety and that is why she is controlling her daughter in this way, so that her daughter is made completely dependent on her and repellent to others so she will never leave her mother.

The long-term solution is to help your niece be self-reliant and eventually help her to move out. For example, your niece could be persuaded to stay with you WITHOUT her mother, and you could show her how to keep herself clean, how to do laundry and cook and keep house and go out and do things.

My mother had some of these tendencies, stemming from a deep but apparently unconscious need to keep me from ever leaving her: she forbade me from going out with my (very well-behaved) friends, she didn't want me to lift a finger in the house, she bought me extra-large clothes and then threw a fit and called me a whore when I bought a tank top and shorts and wore this outfit outside of the house.

My aunts tried to help me, to no avail, because I was socially isolated, had too little self-esteem and was too afraid to go it alone. I do remember their attempts with gratitude, and if you try to help your niece, I'm sure she will thank you for it, whatever happens.

Result - I escaped my mother's house at 20 to live with my boyfriend across the Atlantic. I now hold my mother at arm's length. We see each other once a year for one to two weeks, and in that time span she manages to get on everybody's nerves, even my young kids'.

OP, was your sister or is your sister poor or did she lack access to money?

In addition to the issues related to sexual abuse, I feel like there are often issues related to poverty and guilt. Simple things like taking care of yourself and personal hygiene can seem like frivolous indulgences.

Call CPS

I'm equally concerned about the 15 year old sharing a bed with her mother. With that and the hygiene issues, thus screams mental health problem. This is a hard one. Maybe start with a school counselor?

Anonymous wrote:Use the other two nieces to help the little one. You guys have to before it's too late and she's ostracized!

When she comes to you about buying new clothes, come right out and tell her that she needs to take care of them. That's you ticket there to showing her how to use the machine.

And for the love of God 15 is plenty old enough to research the myths of getting a cold! Give her the facts and tell her while her mom insists on some old wives tales, they are not true. Don't disparage her mom - remember that she loves her mom and you don't want her to be defensive - but be there to help her navigate this.

My older niece tried to talk to her( my younger niece) ... She was giving silent treatment for a month. She has to tip toe since she is living in "their house."