Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the person who decides is the person who decides to drive and text or drunk drive.

OP here. I guess my point is - why was it THAT child on that waterslide, vs. some other child on the same day or a different day. Same with the boy at Disney. Why THAT boy that day? Even with drunk driving, which car do they hit? Its all so random. When I book a flight, I (fleetingly) think - will a plane crash this day? If so, will it be this one or that? The one time I was in a minor car accident, I was plagued with knowing that I almost drove a different route. Or what if I left 5 minutes earlier? or later?

In Disney, the movie had just ended so the family was probably about to head up anyway. AND they were leaving the next morning! What if they went to bed 5 minutes sooner? Or planned their trip a different week? I just can't even imagine...

OP, the thoughts that you are describing are ones that every parent has. It's just a reality of the fact that you have given life to a person who is growing up in front of your eyes, and you are realizing that you cannot protect him/ her forever. This is all perfectly normal. But I will caution you that an obsession with this type of thinking is exactly one of the ways that "evil," if you will, tries to continually attack us.

God speaks very clearly in the Bible about worries, fears and anxiety. As one example, Paul writes

“Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.” Philippians 4:6-7

Jesus also talks about this in the Sermon on the Mount.

I think it is our responsibility as believers to take hold of this kind of thinking, before it consumes and eventually destroys us. All of these scenarios you described are true. What if these people left earlier, what if that child arrived sooner -- on and on -- you can make yourself crazy about it. What if you had gone to a different grocery store yesterday, or driven route A instead of route B on your way to work? Who knows what differently might have happened. The point is, you cannot consume yourself with this kind of thinking. As a Christian, you take heart that God is in control and is with us through good and bad. That is why God also tells us to fill our minds with "good thoughts" and beautiful things -- not to obsess over this kind of thinking, which is the work of evil trying to draw you away from Christ.

Anonymous wrote:I'm all about many of these thoughts of peace and grace until I stop and consider child abuse. The thought of someone killing or allowing the killing of his or her own child (usually young and usually in a horrific circumstance) doesn't bring me closer to God. I don't sit back and think that the poor baby died a painful, tortuous death for a reason.

What is God trying to show those parents?

At least I take comfort that Caleb and the Disney boy were loved. Those babies that know nothing but pain from the moment they're born make me wonder if anything out there is really trying to save us.

PP, why do you assume that there is a reason, or at least a good enough reason that you will accept or understand?

The situations you describe are evil and incomprehensible. I believe that they are perpetrated/ allowed to happen by Satan himself. If the Holy Spirit can be alive in followers of Christ, doesn't it make sense that evil is alive in the form of persons literally inhabited by evil, aka Satan?

God hates this even more than you do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are a Christian you know that this world is broken and this life is ethereal, a pit stop in eternity. So all the pain and brokenness and hurt and evil are temporary, and pale in comparison to what you face in eternity, whether it be good or bad.

This

Ok, but HOW do you know. You just do? Its a feeling you have? A parent/pastor told you? I was raised Protestant but I don't "know" for sure anything about all of this.

We "know" this because God says so. Read the book of Matthew, for starters.

I'm all about many of these thoughts of peace and grace until I stop and consider child abuse. The thought of someone killing or allowing the killing of his or her own child (usually young and usually in a horrific circumstance) doesn't bring me closer to God. I don't sit back and think that the poor baby died a painful, tortuous death for a reason.

What is God trying to show those parents?

At least I take comfort that Caleb and the Disney boy were loved. Those babies that know nothing but pain from the moment they're born make me wonder if anything out there is really trying to save us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also for those who believe in a resurrection, I can say I take specific comfort in that. I believe our body and spirit will come together again, in an even more perfect and whole body. Jesus Christ was the first to do this, and he opened the door as a gift for all. So when I see horror and tragedy, it still hurts badly, don't get me wrong. But I have faith (not seeing but believing in my heart) and hope in that possibility.

Me again. For example. Lane and sandy hook still haunt me. Not that they died. We all will die. But especially how horrific and frightening it was for their innocent souls. So so so very sad. With my oldest starting K, I think of this school year and what kids will be hurt in school this year. Almost bound to happen because of our society. It makes me sad and angry.

But I have this hope that God spares them some of that horror. In any miraculous way. That angels comforted them and never left their side to heaven. That they blacked out and were unconscious. Or that their innocent minds can't take in the worst of it.

But I have looked into recently how to get involved in the sandy hook parents' efforts. All of us with school kids should.

I hope you can find a way to stop torturing yourself with these thoughts. There are so many random things in life. Religious people will say "God's will. People without religion will say "That's life." The result is the same.

Anonymous wrote:Death isnt the end. Birth and death are the bookends to this life. But there is a before and after.

The after includes no more pain in the way we feel it so much now. It's peace, for those who want it. I believe it's Jesus Christ who makes that peace possible for everyone.

The kids who die. It's caused by: other people's choices, natural circumstances because we have bodies and are affected by the things around us. Yes, God can rescue from death anyone he wishes. He does it every day. It's not because he loves them more. It's because there is some specific reason they need to continue here for now. Others he can let pass. (To go further into that idea, i don't know everything, but sometimes he has to let the be happen so we can fully understand the good, the bad, and everything between. Also sometimes, if caused by a murderer, it's because at some point he can't stop a murderer. He'll try, but that evil person will not listen and God must allow them to make that choice, and of course offers terrible consequences did following through.)

It's complicated but simple. Life/people around us affect us. When he intervenes there is a specific reason. But he loves all and when they meet him again he will shower then with joy and no more pain.

Comforting thoughts -- no way to know if it's factual or not.

Anonymous wrote:Also for those who believe in a resurrection, I can say I take specific comfort in that. I believe our body and spirit will come together again, in an even more perfect and whole body. Jesus Christ was the first to do this, and he opened the door as a gift for all. So when I see horror and tragedy, it still hurts badly, don't get me wrong. But I have faith (not seeing but believing in my heart) and hope in that possibility.

Me again. For example. Lane and sandy hook still haunt me. Not that they died. We all will die. But especially how horrific and frightening it was for their innocent souls. So so so very sad. With my oldest starting K, I think of this school year and what kids will be hurt in school this year. Almost bound to happen because of our society. It makes me sad and angry.

But I have this hope that God spares them some of that horror. In any miraculous way. That angels comforted them and never left their side to heaven. That they blacked out and were unconscious. Or that their innocent minds can't take in the worst of it.

But I have looked into recently how to get involved in the sandy hook parents' efforts. All of us with school kids should.

Also for those who believe in a resurrection, I can say I take specific comfort in that. I believe our body and spirit will come together again, in an even more perfect and whole body. Jesus Christ was the first to do this, and he opened the door as a gift for all. So when I see horror and tragedy, it still hurts badly, don't get me wrong. But I have faith (not seeing but believing in my heart) and hope in that possibility.

Death isnt the end. Birth and death are the bookends to this life. But there is a before and after.

The after includes no more pain in the way we feel it so much now. It's peace, for those who want it. I believe it's Jesus Christ who makes that peace possible for everyone.

The kids who die. It's caused by: other people's choices, natural circumstances because we have bodies and are affected by the things around us. Yes, God can rescue from death anyone he wishes. He does it every day. It's not because he loves them more. It's because there is some specific reason they need to continue here for now. Others he can let pass. (To go further into that idea, i don't know everything, but sometimes he has to let the be happen so we can fully understand the good, the bad, and everything between. Also sometimes, if caused by a murderer, it's because at some point he can't stop a murderer. He'll try, but that evil person will not listen and God must allow them to make that choice, and of course offers terrible consequences did following through.)

It's complicated but simple. Life/people around us affect us. When he intervenes there is a specific reason. But he loves all and when they meet him again he will shower then with joy and no more pain.

To some, it all makes sense when you realize that it's random. We see this everyday in so many aspects of life. - all life, not just human.

We're lucky to be here at all. Some people are luckier than others. We all die. No God needed.

Friends used this on their child's funeral program
"You can shed tears that she is gone - or you can smile because she has lived. You can close your eyes and pray that she’ll come back - or you can open your eyes and see all she’s left."

None of us stay here forever. Very few actually seem ready to go when it is their time. All we can do is trust that our purpose here on earth has been achieved, even if those left behind don't agree. Those who have a religious belief to lean on at that time can find a special comfort in the belief that there is a meaning beyond earthly life.

Anonymous wrote:No one can possibly know for sure. I believe our life on earth is just a tiny fraction of the life of our soul. We are here on this earth to learn and to teach. That's our purpose. We are meant to learn about love, compassion, sacrifice, and forgiveness. And we are meant to teach others the same. When our time here on earth is finished, we leave our physical bodies behind. The only reason we have them is so that we can interact in this physical world. They are like spacesuits. When we no longer need them, we leave them behind and return to spirit.

Some people believe that we make make "soul contracts" or agreements before we arrive here on earth. Essentially, we agree to our path. Things can change. We always have free will. But we have agreed to allow our life to unfold for a very specific purpose. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it's fun to think about.

This is exactly what I believe - except I also believe that you come back to Earth continuously to continue your soul's journey and growth. I do not believe that they know the details of their life, but they know what the purpose is before they arrive and they can choose to take that journey or take a different journey. I believe that a "family unit" is tied together over generations and that the 'family unit' is actually larger than we know during different aspects of our life (think spouses) and at some level we are all connected.

When I view the eternity of the soul and the family and the purpose of life and death, this is the most logical conclusion I can come up with.

No one can possibly know for sure. I believe our life on earth is just a tiny fraction of the life of our soul. We are here on this earth to learn and to teach. That's our purpose. We are meant to learn about love, compassion, sacrifice, and forgiveness. And we are meant to teach others the same. When our time here on earth is finished, we leave our physical bodies behind. The only reason we have them is so that we can interact in this physical world. They are like spacesuits. When we no longer need them, we leave them behind and return to spirit.

Some people believe that we make make "soul contracts" or agreements before we arrive here on earth. Essentially, we agree to our path. Things can change. We always have free will. But we have agreed to allow our life to unfold for a very specific purpose. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it's fun to think about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the person who decides is the person who decides to drive and text or drunk drive.

OP here. I guess my point is - why was it THAT child on that waterslide, vs. some other child on the same day or a different day. Same with the boy at Disney. Why THAT boy that day? Even with drunk driving, which car do they hit? Its all so random. When I book a flight, I (fleetingly) think - will a plane crash this day? If so, will it be this one or that? The one time I was in a minor car accident, I was plagued with knowing that I almost drove a different route. Or what if I left 5 minutes earlier? or later?

In Disney, the movie had just ended so the family was probably about to head up anyway. AND they were leaving the next morning! What if they went to bed 5 minutes sooner? Or planned their trip a different week? I just can't even imagine...

OP, you are asking one of the most fundamental questions about religion - what is our purpose here on Earth and what is the purpose of our death. I believe that your answers are only found in your understanding of the eternity of your soul, how our lives may be eternally tied together in a family unit or even across the world and what you think "God" is and how God interacts with our lives.