Anonymous
07/15/2016 13:59
Subject: Re:Is makeup oppressive?
Anonymous wrote:It isn't more oppressive than men being expected to shave every day. By the way, shaving exfoliates, resulting in more even skin tone for men than women.
Men are also expected to get frequent, flattering haircuts and work out expectations aren't less than they are for women.
Ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with a man having a beard.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 13:42
Subject: Is makeup oppressive?
I think the expectation to wear it is oppressive. Women should be able to wear what they want and look how they want without someone thinking they're a lesbian or lazy or whatever. I have actually heard people say that they think that women who don't wear makeup must be lesbians. Sheesh.
I'm low-maintenance. By that I mean I work out daily and shower daily and shave, but beyond that, I'm pretty chill. Most of the time, I'm in little to no makeup, glasses instead of contacts, hair pulled back. Clothes neat and pressed and matching and situationally appropriate but not trying too hard to be sexy or attractive. I won't wear heels because I care about my feet and hate pain.
I do feel like I get sh*t sometimes for being so low-key about this stuff. I will dress up, do makeup and hair for presentations or going out on Friday or Saturday night. I will dress up for church or cultural things. But mostly, I just don't care.
I'm low-maintenance. By that I mean I work out daily and shower daily and shave, but beyond that, I'm pretty chill. Most of the time, I'm in little to no makeup, glasses instead of contacts, hair pulled back. Clothes neat and pressed and matching and situationally appropriate but not trying too hard to be sexy or attractive. I won't wear heels because I care about my feet and hate pain.
I do feel like I get sh*t sometimes for being so low-key about this stuff. I will dress up, do makeup and hair for presentations or going out on Friday or Saturday night. I will dress up for church or cultural things. But mostly, I just don't care.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 12:57
Subject: Re:Is makeup oppressive?
It takes me way less time for me to wash my face, apply moisturizer and make up and brush my hair than it takes my DH to shave. I do spend more time drying my hair after a shower though.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 12:45
Subject: Re:Is makeup oppressive?
Anonymous wrote:It isn't more oppressive than men being expected to shave every day. By the way, shaving exfoliates, resulting in more even skin tone for men than women.
Men are also expected to get frequent, flattering haircuts and work out expectations aren't less than they are for women.
LOL that men shaving is more work that women's fashion and makeup. Also those haircuts cost $19 and take about 15 minutes max, at least at the barber shop I take my sons to.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 12:44
Subject: Re:Is makeup oppressive?
Anonymous wrote:It isn't more oppressive than men being expected to shave every day. By the way, shaving exfoliates, resulting in more even skin tone for men than women.
Men are also expected to get frequent, flattering haircuts and work out expectations aren't less than they are for women.
Please don't pretend that men have even close to the same pressure to look a certain way as women do.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 12:37
Subject: Re:Is makeup oppressive?
It isn't more oppressive than men being expected to shave every day. By the way, shaving exfoliates, resulting in more even skin tone for men than women.
Men are also expected to get frequent, flattering haircuts and work out expectations aren't less than they are for women.
Men are also expected to get frequent, flattering haircuts and work out expectations aren't less than they are for women.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 12:32
Subject: Is makeup oppressive?
Anonymous wrote:PP, good on you for realizing how much time, effort and money you are pouring into your appearance. I am one of the PPs above -- anti-panty rebel, sometimes makeup and heels wearer -- I hope you can just say no to some of these items and free yourself!
Personally, being a mom, the economics alone have made me say no to manis and pedis (I only ever had them occasionally); no to expensive makeup (Try garnier bb cream from CVS -- it covers all the basses and is amazing for those with medium to "deep" skin, as I think the color is called). The other thing that makes me stop with the mindless consumption is thinking about the landfill waste from all these products, not to mention toxic things in them. Why dont we want our young children to wear makeup, but we will coat our lips with mercury stain?
I do think some amount of upkeep and investment in beauty can go a long way -- makeup on some days and teeth whitening (which I dont do, but I would if whitening toothpaste didn't do the trick).
I also have said no by the way to fast fashion -- just think about the poor women and children slaving away in Bangladesh and Malaysia making those trendy clothes that go for $4. I have been guilty of shopping at the H&Ms and the Gaps and the Zaras, but it is the opposite of elegance or beauty to wear fashion that literally enslaves people. I am challenging myself to wear more vintage/used clothes, and just to consume less in general.
Yep. And don't forget the physical upkeep requirement to meet the standards of body policing. It is no longer enough to just be thin. You need to be fit with toned muscles and a sleek, athletic/pilates honed physique. To do this women need to not only run a couple miles a day at least 3 days a week and supplement it with attending specialty fitness classes such as hot yoga, barre, orange theory. Also the $$ spent on athletic wear that goes along with taking these classes.
If you're a wealthy woman with $$ to spare all of this can be a harmless indulgence. But this pressure and expectation hurts poorer women who cannot afford this upkeep. In addition they get judged harshly for looking "unkempt" or "pudgy" because don't fool yourself. "Grooming" for women today isn't just washing your face and brushing your hair.
After the economic cost, you need to factor in the mental and emotional investment into these routines. Women obsess over their looks; too thin; too fat; to pale; too dark; frizzy hair; lovehandles etc etc.
so much potential wasted obsessing over silly things.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 12:17
Subject: Is makeup oppressive?
PP, good on you for realizing how much time, effort and money you are pouring into your appearance. I am one of the PPs above -- anti-panty rebel, sometimes makeup and heels wearer -- I hope you can just say no to some of these items and free yourself!
Personally, being a mom, the economics alone have made me say no to manis and pedis (I only ever had them occasionally); no to expensive makeup (Try garnier bb cream from CVS -- it covers all the basses and is amazing for those with medium to "deep" skin, as I think the color is called). The other thing that makes me stop with the mindless consumption is thinking about the landfill waste from all these products, not to mention toxic things in them. Why dont we want our young children to wear makeup, but we will coat our lips with mercury stain?
I do think some amount of upkeep and investment in beauty can go a long way -- makeup on some days and teeth whitening (which I dont do, but I would if whitening toothpaste didn't do the trick).
I also have said no by the way to fast fashion -- just think about the poor women and children slaving away in Bangladesh and Malaysia making those trendy clothes that go for $4. I have been guilty of shopping at the H&Ms and the Gaps and the Zaras, but it is the opposite of elegance or beauty to wear fashion that literally enslaves people. I am challenging myself to wear more vintage/used clothes, and just to consume less in general.
Personally, being a mom, the economics alone have made me say no to manis and pedis (I only ever had them occasionally); no to expensive makeup (Try garnier bb cream from CVS -- it covers all the basses and is amazing for those with medium to "deep" skin, as I think the color is called). The other thing that makes me stop with the mindless consumption is thinking about the landfill waste from all these products, not to mention toxic things in them. Why dont we want our young children to wear makeup, but we will coat our lips with mercury stain?
I do think some amount of upkeep and investment in beauty can go a long way -- makeup on some days and teeth whitening (which I dont do, but I would if whitening toothpaste didn't do the trick).
I also have said no by the way to fast fashion -- just think about the poor women and children slaving away in Bangladesh and Malaysia making those trendy clothes that go for $4. I have been guilty of shopping at the H&Ms and the Gaps and the Zaras, but it is the opposite of elegance or beauty to wear fashion that literally enslaves people. I am challenging myself to wear more vintage/used clothes, and just to consume less in general.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 11:58
Subject: Re:Is makeup oppressive?
Anonymous wrote:I don't know if I would use the "oppression," but, yes. I think the societal pressures on women with regards to fashion, weight, and makeup represent an undue burden that men don't have. Imagine if we could keep all the time and money we are spending on lotions, creams, magazines, spin classes, plastic surgery, lipsticks, teeth whitening, high heels, and pantyhose for ourselves! Imagine if pre-teen girls weren't already thinking that their thighs were gross and dreaming of the day when they're old enough to get a boob job. Imagine if a woman were judged on her merits and not on how closely she adheres to society's preconceived notions of what she should look like. Beauty standards are like a prison that we all elect to live in.
Just my opinion. Wax on.
+1
It isn't really a commentary on whether women should wear makeup, I'm just trying to talk a bit about whether its okay that we are expected to with the understanding that not doing so would mean a wealth of negative social consequences.
I don't know about you but I wear a fair amount of makeup. I spend a lot of mental and emotional energy on various aspects of my aesthetic upkeep.
$40 Armani Silk Foundation
$60 Laura Mercier eye shadow pallet
$70 Laura Mercier eye shadow brush
$50 Sephora foundation brush
$40 Ulta beauty blender
$24 Benefit They're Real Eye Liner
$4.75 Maybellline mascara
$30.00 Nars Orgasm Blush
$29.00 Nars radiant Concealer
$40.00 Anastasia Contour kit
$39.00 BECCA Shimmering Skin Perfector Pressed
+ Various lipsticks
+ Straighter, blow dryer
+ teeth whiteniners
+ mani + pedi costs
+ hair color and styling
If you can't see how much effort it takes for a normal woman to look "presentable" every day, I don't know what to say. What if we directed that energy towards something else?
Anonymous
07/15/2016 11:47
Subject: Is makeup oppressive?
When my daughter was three, she say a woman in high heels and wondered if her feet were bent like Barbie's. Barbie feet. That made me laugh.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 11:45
Subject: Re:Is makeup oppressive?
I don't know if I would use the "oppression," but, yes. I think the societal pressures on women with regards to fashion, weight, and makeup represent an undue burden that men don't have. Imagine if we could keep all the time and money we are spending on lotions, creams, magazines, spin classes, plastic surgery, lipsticks, teeth whitening, high heels, and pantyhose for ourselves! Imagine if pre-teen girls weren't already thinking that their thighs were gross and dreaming of the day when they're old enough to get a boob job. Imagine if a woman were judged on her merits and not on how closely she adheres to society's preconceived notions of what she should look like. Beauty standards are like a prison that we all elect to live in.
Just my opinion. Wax on.
Just my opinion. Wax on.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 11:43
Subject: Is makeup oppressive?
Anonymous wrote:Probably so, OP. I remember when I was a teen, and used to think the best example was "cover up." Just says it right there, cover up the real you!
(and then get zits and blackheads and start that whole product cycle...the rat race of skin beauty. I remember reading an article, years ago, where Lauren Hutton (model) spent three months in the desert wearing nothing and said her skin never looked better)
Anyways I agree, but the high heels situation is the thing that irks me the most, probably because it both hinders women's mobility and ruins their feet (so mobility and health). I wear them sometimes but not the crazy height that is in nowadays. I live in LA and yesterday was watching three women in amazingly high shoes totter around a CVS; it was ridiculous. It's ridiculous watching these women try and WALK. That being said, the shoes were pretty.
I agree with this poster completely. Seven sisters grad here, feminist, sometimes non-shaver. In college I had a joke campaign called -- the Anti-Panty Rebellion -- "let's storm the citidels of crude male nomenclature!" (they're called underwear.) But now I occasionally wear makeup, and periodically wear and reject mostly sensible heels. I have two girls and I want to raise them not to feel they need to wear heels, shave their legs or wear uncomfortable "panties." I don't think makeup is as problematic for me, as long as it is fun and optional. Women have been wearing makeup going back to Cleopatra and beyond. Plus, you could always do angry makeup or a slash under your eye. Think of it as war paint -- if you want
Anonymous
07/15/2016 11:31
Subject: Is makeup oppressive?
Anonymous wrote:I thought this was going to be about the heat.
LOL.
In that case, OP, might I suggest a good primer to help with the heat oppression?
If you're the crunchy type, Preparation H is a good dupe for any number of high-end primers.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 11:26
Subject: Is makeup oppressive?
I thought this was going to be about the heat.
Anonymous
07/15/2016 11:17
Subject: Is makeup oppressive?
Yeah no. You and that comic can fuck right off.
You don't get to hold up ideals that only YOU agree with for women and damn expressions of womanhood that you think are old fashioned or whatever.
You don't get to talk about freedom of choice and equality for women out of one side of your mouth and then judge women who enjoy looking pretty and taking the time to look their best out of their other.
If you were really a feminist you would recognize that the whole point is about freedom to choose. And not just to be able to compete on the same level as men or to show men that women are just as capable and deserving of respect.
If a woman chooses to have children, if a woman chooses to wear a full face of makeup, if a woman chooses to wear the hijab, if a woman chooses to leave her career to support her partner and care for her family, you should applaud that just as loudly as a woman who chooses to focus on her career, to fight on the front lines, to remain child-free, to go bare faced, to reject shit like tampons and embrace things like menstrual cups and period panties.
Feminism is about equality of choice. Either you support it for everyone or you are just as big of a problem as the systemic sexism you're fighting against.
You don't get to hold up ideals that only YOU agree with for women and damn expressions of womanhood that you think are old fashioned or whatever.
You don't get to talk about freedom of choice and equality for women out of one side of your mouth and then judge women who enjoy looking pretty and taking the time to look their best out of their other.
If you were really a feminist you would recognize that the whole point is about freedom to choose. And not just to be able to compete on the same level as men or to show men that women are just as capable and deserving of respect.
If a woman chooses to have children, if a woman chooses to wear a full face of makeup, if a woman chooses to wear the hijab, if a woman chooses to leave her career to support her partner and care for her family, you should applaud that just as loudly as a woman who chooses to focus on her career, to fight on the front lines, to remain child-free, to go bare faced, to reject shit like tampons and embrace things like menstrual cups and period panties.
Feminism is about equality of choice. Either you support it for everyone or you are just as big of a problem as the systemic sexism you're fighting against.