Anonymous
Post 07/03/2016 09:30     Subject: Re:Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
You know what? Adults are just the damn worst. Thanks for the lecture above on the origins of Halloween. Halloween as it is celebrated in the US is about dressing up, trick or treating, and having fun. No one who isn't already a total weirdo all the time worships the devil on that day. No one is celebrating the devil's birthday. It isn't celebrated as a religious holiday. Just let the kids have their fun. Just stop over thinking everything and raining on all the kids parades!
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 22:21     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
"
Schools that have Halloween parties offer an alternate activity for students whose parents do not want them to participate. There's your respect for the religions that forbid it. Kids don't have to participate and are provided a fun activity to avoid feeling excluded. Majority rules, but the rights of the minority are protected.

If your religion prohibits a secular activity, it's on you to educate your children about why they don't celebrate or participate in certain activities, even if those activities are fun"

+1

Furthermore:
A) Halloween is not a religious holiday at all in the US.
And
B) Christian here who feels strongly schools should not start banning Halloween but I fully agree that Xmas and Easter do not belong in public schools as those clearly ARE religious holidays.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 22:02     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People are obnoxious. It is not celebrated as a religious holiday at all. It is a cultural holiday. Will they try to ban thanksgiving celebrations next?

If they don't want their kid to do it they can send them to the alternate activities or pull them that afternoon.


It is a holiday that violates many kids religions.

Every kid I have had whose family didn't believe in Halloween has been black. That isn't true nationwide, but in this area it is mostly black families. From my perspective, when schools are respectful of families who don't celebrate Christmas (which in this area is mostly white Jews), they need to be equally respectful of families who don't celebrate Halloween. Saying it's "cultural" is beside the point. Clothes are cultural, but excluding kids who wear hijab is still religious discrimination. Food is cultural, but having a pig roast and not offering another option for Muslim and Jewish guests would still be religious discrimination.

I don't have a huge problem with a one day Halloween celebration, especially if there is a fun alternate option. But in many classrooms Halloween becomes a month long celebration, with ghost stories and math worksheets where you count candy corn.


The only problem with that is most schools preach tolerance but then go against it. My kid came home talking about God, easter, easter bunny, tooth fairy, all about Christmas, etc. and we don't celebrate any of those nor did. She came home with coloring pages for easter and an easter basket. So, do all or nothing. If no Halloween, then no Christmas, no easter, etc.


That is funny because my kids came home with worksheets about holidays that show religous symbols for all faiths but Christianity. The Christmas symbols were always secular examples while all the other examples for other religions were faith based.


The irony for us is the school will not let the kids have a tiny cookie or anything sweet at lunch but give all kinds of cupcakes, popsicles and candy (including the easter basket). They'd rather the kids have highly dyed cupcakes than a parent sending in one homemade cookie. I don't see why we need any religion in school but obviously I am a minority in that.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 18:42     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

There is one school in the county that doesn't have Halloween, solely due to the principal's personal view.


Which school?


NP, but there is more than one. I've worked in a few of them.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 18:29     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People are obnoxious. It is not celebrated as a religious holiday at all. It is a cultural holiday. Will they try to ban thanksgiving celebrations next?

If they don't want their kid to do it they can send them to the alternate activities or pull them that afternoon.


It is a holiday that violates many kids religions.

Every kid I have had whose family didn't believe in Halloween has been black. That isn't true nationwide, but in this area it is mostly black families. From my perspective, when schools are respectful of families who don't celebrate Christmas (which in this area is mostly white Jews), they need to be equally respectful of families who don't celebrate Halloween. Saying it's "cultural" is beside the point. Clothes are cultural, but excluding kids who wear hijab is still religious discrimination. Food is cultural, but having a pig roast and not offering another option for Muslim and Jewish guests would still be religious discrimination.

I don't have a huge problem with a one day Halloween celebration, especially if there is a fun alternate option. But in many classrooms Halloween becomes a month long celebration, with ghost stories and math worksheets where you count candy corn.


The only problem with that is most schools preach tolerance but then go against it. My kid came home talking about God, easter, easter bunny, tooth fairy, all about Christmas, etc. and we don't celebrate any of those nor did. She came home with coloring pages for easter and an easter basket. So, do all or nothing. If no Halloween, then no Christmas, no easter, etc.


That is funny because my kids came home with worksheets about holidays that show religous symbols for all faiths but Christianity. The Christmas symbols were always secular examples while all the other examples for other religions were faith based.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 18:26     Subject: Re:Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:Yeah the problem is the kids (mostly Hispanic but also Muslim) who don't celebrate Halloween. I'm not saying those students are problems but particularly in the Hispanic evangelical christian community Halloween is seen as "satanic." I have has numerous students and the friends of my children say that Halloween is "the devil's birthday." I think the Muslim children just don't celebrate any other religions holidays, however distanced from religion they now are. It sucks because Halloween as it is celebrated by mainstream americans is not satanic. Why these religious organizations have seized on this idea I'm not sure. But it's cultura/religious. So the kids who don't celebrate the holiday have an alternative "festival" in a different room and then there is the "fall festival" for everyone else that is a Halloween party.

The devil's birthday business really bothers me because it's so far from the truth it's ridiculous.


That's true of many evangelical churches, not just Hispanic ones.

Halloween has its roots in Catholicism (All Saints Day and All Souls Day) but Catholicism borrowed lots of customs from pagan religions to make Christianity down better for pagan converts. There are lots of pagan roots for this one. In Ireland, Halloween was preceded by Samhain which was an end-of-the-harvest festival. The dead were believed to visit on Samhain. In Mexico, the Day of the Dead is a Catholic celebration of All Souls Day (Nov. 2) that has been come tied to Halloween. The holiday has roots in a festival of an Aztec goddess, Mictecacihuatl.

Evangelicals often don't have much use for Catholicism, much less Catholic holidays with pagan roots.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 18:25     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:Schools that have Halloween parties offer an alternate activity for students whose parents do not want them to participate. There's your respect for the religions that forbid it. Kids don't have to participate and are provided a fun activity to avoid feeling excluded. Majority rules, but the rights of the minority are protected.

If your religion prohibits a secular activity, it's on you to educate your children about why they don't celebrate or participate in certain activities, even if those activities are fun. My religion requires fasting from many foods multiple times a year, for weeks at a time. My kids know they need to say "no" to those foods during this time, and they know why.


But, why are we teaching Christian holidays and not Muslim or Jewish holidays equally? Why are we teaching any religion in schools that are supposed to be non-religious since some kids are agnostic or atheist and parents do not follow their religions of birth? If my child is being taught about Easter and Christmas, shouldn't Ramadan and Passover be taught as well? If religious Christians are banning Halloween (which is fine), then shouldn't Christmas and Easter be banned for those kids who do not celebrate it as well? (I really didn't appreciate my children being told repeatedly that Santa is real and they'd better be good for presents. And, then, those saying it get mad when my child tells them its all made up).
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 18:19     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People are obnoxious. It is not celebrated as a religious holiday at all. It is a cultural holiday. Will they try to ban thanksgiving celebrations next?

If they don't want their kid to do it they can send them to the alternate activities or pull them that afternoon.


It is a holiday that violates many kids religions.

Every kid I have had whose family didn't believe in Halloween has been black. That isn't true nationwide, but in this area it is mostly black families. From my perspective, when schools are respectful of families who don't celebrate Christmas (which in this area is mostly white Jews), they need to be equally respectful of families who don't celebrate Halloween. Saying it's "cultural" is beside the point. Clothes are cultural, but excluding kids who wear hijab is still religious discrimination. Food is cultural, but having a pig roast and not offering another option for Muslim and Jewish guests would still be religious discrimination.

I don't have a huge problem with a one day Halloween celebration, especially if there is a fun alternate option. But in many classrooms Halloween becomes a month long celebration, with ghost stories and math worksheets where you count candy corn.


The only problem with that is most schools preach tolerance but then go against it. My kid came home talking about God, easter, easter bunny, tooth fairy, all about Christmas, etc. and we don't celebrate any of those nor did. She came home with coloring pages for easter and an easter basket. So, do all or nothing. If no Halloween, then no Christmas, no easter, etc.


I'm the PP above and I agree with you 100%. I don't think any of those things belong in a public school classroom.


I don't mind my child being exposed, but I do mind when the Christian holidays are highlighted and not other religions. Either be inclusive of all, or none. Don't let a group dictate their religion needs to be highlighted but then take away from other holidays others may enjoy. I have no issue not having Halloween at school, but then keep it neutral and keep God, Easter, Christmas, Santa, and all that out as well. Its very annoying to have my children come home and the teacher and other kids insist he is real when he isn't. I found the easter basket really offensive for a school that is not religious.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 15:26     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People are obnoxious. It is not celebrated as a religious holiday at all. It is a cultural holiday. Will they try to ban thanksgiving celebrations next?

If they don't want their kid to do it they can send them to the alternate activities or pull them that afternoon.


It is a holiday that violates many kids religions.

Every kid I have had whose family didn't believe in Halloween has been black. That isn't true nationwide, but in this area it is mostly black families. From my perspective, when schools are respectful of families who don't celebrate Christmas (which in this area is mostly white Jews), they need to be equally respectful of families who don't celebrate Halloween. Saying it's "cultural" is beside the point. Clothes are cultural, but excluding kids who wear hijab is still religious discrimination. Food is cultural, but having a pig roast and not offering another option for Muslim and Jewish guests would still be religious discrimination.

I don't have a huge problem with a one day Halloween celebration, especially if there is a fun alternate option. But in many classrooms Halloween becomes a month long celebration, with ghost stories and math worksheets where you count candy corn.


The only problem with that is most schools preach tolerance but then go against it. My kid came home talking about God, easter, easter bunny, tooth fairy, all about Christmas, etc. and we don't celebrate any of those nor did. She came home with coloring pages for easter and an easter basket. So, do all or nothing. If no Halloween, then no Christmas, no easter, etc.


I'm the PP above and I agree with you 100%. I don't think any of those things belong in a public school classroom.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 15:21     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Schools that have Halloween parties offer an alternate activity for students whose parents do not want them to participate. There's your respect for the religions that forbid it. Kids don't have to participate and are provided a fun activity to avoid feeling excluded. Majority rules, but the rights of the minority are protected.

If your religion prohibits a secular activity, it's on you to educate your children about why they don't celebrate or participate in certain activities, even if those activities are fun. My religion requires fasting from many foods multiple times a year, for weeks at a time. My kids know they need to say "no" to those foods during this time, and they know why.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 15:21     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People are obnoxious. It is not celebrated as a religious holiday at all. It is a cultural holiday. Will they try to ban thanksgiving celebrations next?

If they don't want their kid to do it they can send them to the alternate activities or pull them that afternoon.


It is a holiday that violates many kids religions.

Every kid I have had whose family didn't believe in Halloween has been black. That isn't true nationwide, but in this area it is mostly black families. From my perspective, when schools are respectful of families who don't celebrate Christmas (which in this area is mostly white Jews), they need to be equally respectful of families who don't celebrate Halloween. Saying it's "cultural" is beside the point. Clothes are cultural, but excluding kids who wear hijab is still religious discrimination. Food is cultural, but having a pig roast and not offering another option for Muslim and Jewish guests would still be religious discrimination.

I don't have a huge problem with a one day Halloween celebration, especially if there is a fun alternate option. But in many classrooms Halloween becomes a month long celebration, with ghost stories and math worksheets where you count candy corn.


The only problem with that is most schools preach tolerance but then go against it. My kid came home talking about God, easter, easter bunny, tooth fairy, all about Christmas, etc. and we don't celebrate any of those nor did. She came home with coloring pages for easter and an easter basket. So, do all or nothing. If no Halloween, then no Christmas, no easter, etc.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 15:17     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:

There is one school in the county that doesn't have Halloween, solely due to the principal's personal view.


Which school?
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 14:57     Subject: Re:Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yeah the problem is the kids (mostly Hispanic but also Muslim) who don't celebrate Halloween. I'm not saying those students are problems but particularly in the Hispanic evangelical christian community Halloween is seen as "satanic." I have has numerous students and the friends of my children say that Halloween is "the devil's birthday." I think the Muslim children just don't celebrate any other religions holidays, however distanced from religion they now are. It sucks because Halloween as it is celebrated by mainstream americans is not satanic. Why these religious organizations have seized on this idea I'm not sure. But it's cultura/religious. So the kids who don't celebrate the holiday have an alternative "festival" in a different room and then there is the "fall festival" for everyone else that is a Halloween party.

The devil's birthday business really bothers me because it's so far from the truth it's ridiculous.


And yet, in my non-evangelical Hispanic family, Halloween is our favorite holiday, grandparents and "old country" relatives included. So the school needs to do a lot of data collection before determining whether or not to eliminate its celebration. They can't just say "we have a high Hispanic population--ok, no Halloween" (not that that was your suggestion). Some groups don't celebrate, but don't object either.


In my experience, schools make this decision after noting the number of kids who stay home on Halloween. When I taught elementary school, I'd have 1/4 of my class out that day and when I asked parents would tell me it was for religious reasons. That's enough data for me.

With a new school, figuring out the right path can be more challenging.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 14:55     Subject: Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:People are obnoxious. It is not celebrated as a religious holiday at all. It is a cultural holiday. Will they try to ban thanksgiving celebrations next?

If they don't want their kid to do it they can send them to the alternate activities or pull them that afternoon.


It is a holiday that violates many kids religions.

Every kid I have had whose family didn't believe in Halloween has been black. That isn't true nationwide, but in this area it is mostly black families. From my perspective, when schools are respectful of families who don't celebrate Christmas (which in this area is mostly white Jews), they need to be equally respectful of families who don't celebrate Halloween. Saying it's "cultural" is beside the point. Clothes are cultural, but excluding kids who wear hijab is still religious discrimination. Food is cultural, but having a pig roast and not offering another option for Muslim and Jewish guests would still be religious discrimination.

I don't have a huge problem with a one day Halloween celebration, especially if there is a fun alternate option. But in many classrooms Halloween becomes a month long celebration, with ghost stories and math worksheets where you count candy corn.
Anonymous
Post 07/02/2016 14:54     Subject: Re:Do they have Halloween parties at Oakland Terrace ES?
Anonymous wrote:Yeah the problem is the kids (mostly Hispanic but also Muslim) who don't celebrate Halloween. I'm not saying those students are problems but particularly in the Hispanic evangelical christian community Halloween is seen as "satanic." I have has numerous students and the friends of my children say that Halloween is "the devil's birthday." I think the Muslim children just don't celebrate any other religions holidays, however distanced from religion they now are. It sucks because Halloween as it is celebrated by mainstream americans is not satanic. Why these religious organizations have seized on this idea I'm not sure. But it's cultura/religious. So the kids who don't celebrate the holiday have an alternative "festival" in a different room and then there is the "fall festival" for everyone else that is a Halloween party.

The devil's birthday business really bothers me because it's so far from the truth it's ridiculous.


And yet, in my non-evangelical Hispanic family, Halloween is our favorite holiday, grandparents and "old country" relatives included. So the school needs to do a lot of data collection before determining whether or not to eliminate its celebration. They can't just say "we have a high Hispanic population--ok, no Halloween" (not that that was your suggestion). Some groups don't celebrate, but don't object either.