Anonymous wrote:Watching both the the FX series and ESPN doc, I came away fascinated with Johnnie Cochran. I didn't know much about his career and personal life outside of the OJ trial. I hear a biopic is being filmed about him, I'm really looking forward to watching.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I want to understand is how this "payback" changed anything. It didn't. It was cheap and bad and creates more distrust between us and them (black and white, cops and civilians, etc.). Just like Baltimore, a big blowup and then everyone goes back to their corners, thinking the same way about the other group. We need a tribunal, like in South Africa, where everything can be aired out once and for all.

It doesn't change anything. The cycle continues. But if you have been on the side of the oppressed, you might be okay with that result as long as you made the other side feel pain. If you know all things will remain constant if you remain quiet or not, then why not let the other side feel pain too.

I don't agree with the approach, but I understand it. Think of what must have happened to a person where they would want to let a guilty man go free on principle. Many of you will be snarky or dismissive about that, and that attitude is the reason why this happened. It's the reason why it happen again.

This probably the reason why our country will never progress or resolve any of its issues related to race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I want to understand is how this "payback" changed anything. It didn't. It was cheap and bad and creates more distrust between us and them (black and white, cops and civilians, etc.). Just like Baltimore, a big blowup and then everyone goes back to their corners, thinking the same way about the other group. We need a tribunal, like in South Africa, where everything can be aired out once and for all.

It doesn't change anything. The cycle continues. But if you have been on the side of the oppressed, you might be okay with that result as long as you made the other side feel pain. If you know all things will remain constant if you remain quiet or not, then why not let the other side feel pain too.

I don't agree with the approach, but I understand it. Think of what must have happened to a person where they would want to let a guilty man go free on principle. Many of you will be snarky or dismissive about that, and that attitude is the reason why this happened. It's the reason why it happen again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really tragic that the Brown and Goldman families did not get justice because of “payback.”

OP here.

I agree. However I also believe it is tragedy that black jurors would have so much pain and anger that they would acquit to "send a message." And that millions of others would agree with it. The fact that it got to that point says to me that we (me included although I'm biracial/Asian) are not listening (to their cries). We hear one pain, but not the other. Then criticize AAs when we don't like how they display their frustration.

I know 20 years later, it looks like payback or sending a message, but at the time I don't believe it was. The now middle aged female juror even stated if the prosecution hadnt presented them such a sloppy case (and putting aside hatred for OJ, the case was sloppy) the result could have been different.

I also think many of the jurors had a negative view or maybe even experience with law enforcement. It made it easy for them to set aside logic and believe the possibility of a conspiracy. And the documentary did a great job showing the climate in LA at the time that contributed to this. Add that to the fact Furman pleaded the fifth when asked if he had planted evidence in the case (smart move by the defense, he probably would have plead the fifth if asked if the sky was blue), and you get a not guilty verdict.

One of the jurors explicitly said it was payback.

But I agree that the even legally, reasonable doubt was there. Seems like LE were trying to frame a guilty man. Wonder what they did to innocent ones.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really tragic that the Brown and Goldman families did not get justice because of “payback.”

OP here.

I agree. However I also believe it is tragedy that black jurors would have so much pain and anger that they would acquit to "send a message." And that millions of others would agree with it. The fact that it got to that point says to me that we (me included although I'm biracial/Asian) are not listening (to their cries). We hear one pain, but not the other. Then criticize AAs when we don't like how they display their frustration.

I know 20 years later, it looks like payback or sending a message, but at the time I don't believe it was. The now middle aged female juror even stated if the prosecution hadnt presented them such a sloppy case (and putting aside hatred for OJ, the case was sloppy) the result could have been different.

I also think many of the jurors had a negative view or maybe even experience with law enforcement. It made it easy for them to set aside logic and believe the possibility of a conspiracy. And the documentary did a great job showing the climate in LA at the time that contributed to this. Add that to the fact Furman pleaded the fifth when asked if he had planted evidence in the case (smart move by the defense, he probably would have plead the fifth if asked if the sky was blue), and you get a not guilty verdict.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really tragic that the Brown and Goldman families did not get justice because of “payback.”

OP here.

I agree. However I also believe it is tragedy that black jurors would have so much pain and anger that they would acquit to "send a message." And that millions of others would agree with it. The fact that it got to that point says to me that we (me included although I'm biracial/Asian) are not listening (to their cries). We hear one pain, but not the other. Then criticize AAs when we don't like how they display their frustration.

Anonymous wrote:What I want to understand is how this "payback" changed anything. It didn't. It was cheap and bad and creates more distrust between us and them (black and white, cops and civilians, etc.). Just like Baltimore, a big blowup and then everyone goes back to their corners, thinking the same way about the other group. We need a tribunal, like in South Africa, where everything can be aired out once and for all.

Anonymous wrote:It’s really tragic that the Brown and Goldman families did not get justice because of “payback.”

Anonymous wrote:http://espn.go.com/30for30/ojsimpsonmadeinamerica/

Anyone have thoughts on this documentary?

IMO, its a fascinating take of the events occurred. Particularly as it relates to race and law.

1) The images of the Nicole and her lover confirmed my thoughts that the crime was one of passion. It was overkill. A hired gun wouldn't go to such lengths. OJ is guilt as sin and he knows it.

2) Even though the bastard was guilty as sin, the LAPD blew the case. No way jury could convict when Fuhrman pleads the 5th on planting evidence. He also is a racist. I'm not sure I could have convicted just knowing that alone.

3) I never truly understood why AA's at the time where so happy that he got off. I thought it was simply b/c he was black and they felt unfairly treated by the police. I viewed it more as an "eye for and eye" from the Rodney King beating verdicts. It was much deeper than that. More like an eye for one million eyes.

I don't believe this approach to "retribution" is right, but I completely understand the sentiment now, and can't say I would't have felt the same way, if I lived the shoes of an AA at the time. The Goldman and Brown families deserved justice, justice. The shouldn't have to pay b/c LE and the criminal justice system was, and likely still is, is inherently racist institution. My guess is that for every Brown and Goldman family, there are 10 AA families that don't get justice and that are intentionally harassed and/or persecuted. Neither should happen, but it seems no one cares about the latter. I didn't realize this.

I actually see parallels b/t the protests and anger during the trial and the ones we have today in response to all these shootings of unarmed AAs. Makes me wonder how far we have some on this front, and if another trial like this were to occur, would we have a similar situation. I believe we would.

4) The Goldman family is ultimately the reason why OJ is jail now. Without the civil case judgement, OJ would be living wealthy on tropical islands. Instead he was scavenging for assets and that lead to his downfall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://espn.go.com/30for30/ojsimpsonmadeinamerica/

Anyone have thoughts on this documentary?

IMO, its a fascinating take of the events occurred. Particularly as it relates to race and law.

1) The images of the Nicole and her lover confirmed my thoughts that the crime was one of passion. It was overkill. A hired gun wouldn't go to such lengths. OJ is guilt as sin and he knows it.

2) Even though the bastard was guilty as sin, the LAPD blew the case. No way jury could convict when Fuhrman pleads the 5th on planting evidence. He also is a racist. I'm not sure I could have convicted just knowing that alone.

3) I never truly understood why AA's at the time where so happy that he got off. I thought it was simply b/c he was black and they felt unfairly treated by the police. I viewed it more as an "eye for and eye" from the Rodney King beating verdicts. It was much deeper than that. More like an eye for one million eyes.

I don't believe this approach to "retribution" is right, but I completely understand the sentiment now, and can't say I would't have felt the same way, if I lived the shoes of an AA at the time. The Goldman and Brown families deserved justice, justice. The shouldn't have to pay b/c LE and the criminal justice system was, and likely still is, is inherently racist institution. My guess is that for every Brown and Goldman family, there are 10 AA families that don't get justice and that are intentionally harassed and/or persecuted. Neither should happen, but it seems no one cares about the latter. I didn't realize this.

I actually see parallels b/t the protests and anger during the trial and the ones we have today in response to all these shootings of unarmed AAs. Makes me wonder how far we have some on this front, and if another trial like this were to occur, would we have a similar situation. I believe we would.

4) The Goldman family is ultimately the reason why OJ is jail now. Without the civil case judgement, OJ would be living wealthy on tropical islands. Instead he was scavenging for assets and that lead to his downfall.

The fact that you are referring to Goldman as “her lover” makes me seriously question the remainder of your post.

I came away thinking that Johnny Cochran was a race-baiting attorney who knew that his only hope in getting a guilty man free was to focus on race instead of the actual crime.
Glad OJ is in prison and I actually hope he dies there.

NP here. OP made a simple typo. No need to be rude.

Cochran did his job. The LAPD made it easy for him. If they weren't racist, OJ would haBe just been another murderer in jail. Not some symbol of historical injustice.

I do not agree with the circumstances on how OJ was convicted for robbery. The sentence was way too aggressive based on the crime.

This is one of the arguments from one of Cochran's attorneys who basically said it was payback - supposedly the judge held the jury past midnight so the sentence could be delivered on the same date as his acquittal day years earlier and the sentence was identical (in number of years - 33) to the civil award $33.0 million.