Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids don't work hard these days. Her retail job is dead end. Sure, it pays a bit, but if she's looking for growth in her field, she needs connections. Complaining about working extra hours unpaid at this point in her life is BS.

Millennials are such whiners. This is a temporary phase. And as a parent, you should encourage her to build her resume instead of enabling lazy behavior that will lead to "basement living" in your home.

NP here. I disagree. My father is the hardest working man I know, and growing up, he told me that unpaid internships are exploitation. Anyone who truly values hard work doesn't expect others to work for free.

Volunteer work is different. An internship is not volunteer work.

The distinguishing factor between volunteer and internship is that interns have less control over their hours. I don't see how anyone should be able to legally tell someone they have to work more unpaid hours. But I do think "internships" get around that. Otherwise, those campaigns and employers would just seek volunteers looking for experience (for which they get plenty).

But as other PPs have said, if OP's daughter wants to go into politics, perhaps she should get used to it.

If I were OP, I'd advise my child to think seriously about whether that is the field she wants to go into. Despite the positive anecdotal experiences listed here, I have a friend who volunteered (it wasn't an internship) for a campaign. He reduced his actual paying work hours (sacrificing pay he needed) because he really believed that somehow the volunteer work would lead to something. It never did lead to an actual job. He says he learned a lot about campaign work and made a lot of great contacts. But none of it amounted to a paying job. He moved back in with his parents and is exploring other career options.

I only mention that so that OP can caution her daughter to go into it eyes wide open. Sure, there is the potential that it will lead to other things. But there is no guarantee.

Nothing in life is guaranteed!

How old are you, PP? young, I imagine, as I hardly think you'd have a 40 yo friend moving back home

These unpaid internships are nothing new. When I was a journalism major, internships were required. There were a few lucky students who were paid. Yes, we earned credits for interning, but we also PAID for those credits. lol

And while many were paid for X number of hours, my peers who "volunteered" for extra hours were often offered jobs after graduating.

I will says this again - Millennials can't cut the cord, often complaining to their parents who ultimately enable co-dependent behavior. It's not healthy.

OP's daughter needs to suck it up. This won't be her life forever if she works hard hard. And OP needs to let her daughter fight her own battles instead of coming here to complain FOR her.

oy

I would also add that the job market is likely very different than when you or I were first starting out. In my opinion, the career fields that *require* internships (political science, journalism, et cetera) with the exception of teaching (where the internship is tied to certification) are career fields I would avoid because they involve a lot of years of long hours and horrible pay. And even then, there's such a steady influx of new people who are willing to work for free (internships!), that even once you pay your dues, you could be downsized.

That is why my advice to OP was to advise her daughter to consider if she really wants to go into that field. She should go in eyes wide open, that it might take years of long hours and low pay and a lot o schmoozing before she finds some sort of financial stability.

You mention journalism. A person I knew about a decade ago went down that path, did the internships, and never did find a full-time paying job in her field (despite good greats, great feedback and accolades).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids don't work hard these days. Her retail job is dead end. Sure, it pays a bit, but if she's looking for growth in her field, she needs connections. Complaining about working extra hours unpaid at this point in her life is BS.

Millennials are such whiners. This is a temporary phase. And as a parent, you should encourage her to build her resume instead of enabling lazy behavior that will lead to "basement living" in your home.

NP here. I disagree. My father is the hardest working man I know, and growing up, he told me that unpaid internships are exploitation. Anyone who truly values hard work doesn't expect others to work for free.

Volunteer work is different. An internship is not volunteer work.

The distinguishing factor between volunteer and internship is that interns have less control over their hours. I don't see how anyone should be able to legally tell someone they have to work more unpaid hours. But I do think "internships" get around that. Otherwise, those campaigns and employers would just seek volunteers looking for experience (for which they get plenty).

But as other PPs have said, if OP's daughter wants to go into politics, perhaps she should get used to it.

If I were OP, I'd advise my child to think seriously about whether that is the field she wants to go into. Despite the positive anecdotal experiences listed here, I have a friend who volunteered (it wasn't an internship) for a campaign. He reduced his actual paying work hours (sacrificing pay he needed) because he really believed that somehow the volunteer work would lead to something. It never did lead to an actual job. He says he learned a lot about campaign work and made a lot of great contacts. But none of it amounted to a paying job. He moved back in with his parents and is exploring other career options.

I only mention that so that OP can caution her daughter to go into it eyes wide open. Sure, there is the potential that it will lead to other things. But there is no guarantee.

Nothing in life is guaranteed!

How old are you, PP? young, I imagine, as I hardly think you'd have a 40 yo friend moving back home

These unpaid internships are nothing new. When I was a journalism major, internships were required. There were a few lucky students who were paid. Yes, we earned credits for interning, but we also PAID for those credits. lol

And while many were paid for X number of hours, my peers who "volunteered" for extra hours were often offered jobs after graduating.

I will says this again - Millennials can't cut the cord, often complaining to their parents who ultimately enable co-dependent behavior. It's not healthy.

OP's daughter needs to suck it up. This won't be her life forever if she works hard hard. And OP needs to let her daughter fight her own battles instead of coming here to complain FOR her.

oy

No, I'm not young. I'm 40. This happened to my friend in a past election cycle, but the friend never really rebounded from it, in part because it was at an age where it is hard to restart. As I said, my friend volunteered. It wasn't an internship. And I agree there are no guarantees in life. In fact, that was my point. The other PPs make it sound like doing an internship gig means a job later. It does not -- not in any field, by the way. There's the possibility. But that's all.

I'm not a milennial. I still think unpaid internships are exploitation, especially if someone is actually paying for the college credits they get for that internship.

I don't think OP is fighting her daughter's battles. She is asking for perspective because her gut tells her that her daughter is being used.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very typical of campaign/political work.

This. It's her choice. No one is beung "used." She can walk out anytime if she wants to. No victim here.

So says every abuser. Shame on you!

Please don't apply domestic abuse and relationship abuse metaphors and tropes to hiring relationships. You are cheapening domestic violence and actually working against your cause when you expand it like this. I get that you have a heightened sense of what an abusive relationship is and that you want people to consider whether or not they are being exploitative or exploited, abuse and/or abused. But asking an intern to work long hours for a cause or campaign is completely different from an abusive domestic relationship. You are really projected your experiences in an inappropriate way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids don't work hard these days. Her retail job is dead end. Sure, it pays a bit, but if she's looking for growth in her field, she needs connections. Complaining about working extra hours unpaid at this point in her life is BS.

Millennials are such whiners. This is a temporary phase. And as a parent, you should encourage her to build her resume instead of enabling lazy behavior that will lead to "basement living" in your home.

NP here. I disagree. My father is the hardest working man I know, and growing up, he told me that unpaid internships are exploitation. Anyone who truly values hard work doesn't expect others to work for free.

Volunteer work is different. An internship is not volunteer work.

The distinguishing factor between volunteer and internship is that interns have less control over their hours. I don't see how anyone should be able to legally tell someone they have to work more unpaid hours. But I do think "internships" get around that. Otherwise, those campaigns and employers would just seek volunteers looking for experience (for which they get plenty).

But as other PPs have said, if OP's daughter wants to go into politics, perhaps she should get used to it.

If I were OP, I'd advise my child to think seriously about whether that is the field she wants to go into. Despite the positive anecdotal experiences listed here, I have a friend who volunteered (it wasn't an internship) for a campaign. He reduced his actual paying work hours (sacrificing pay he needed) because he really believed that somehow the volunteer work would lead to something. It never did lead to an actual job. He says he learned a lot about campaign work and made a lot of great contacts. But none of it amounted to a paying job. He moved back in with his parents and is exploring other career options.

I only mention that so that OP can caution her daughter to go into it eyes wide open. Sure, there is the potential that it will lead to other things. But there is no guarantee.

Nothing in life is guaranteed!

How old are you, PP? young, I imagine, as I hardly think you'd have a 40 yo friend moving back home

These unpaid internships are nothing new. When I was a journalism major, internships were required. There were a few lucky students who were paid. Yes, we earned credits for interning, but we also PAID for those credits. lol

And while many were paid for X number of hours, my peers who "volunteered" for extra hours were often offered jobs after graduating.

I will says this again - Millennials can't cut the cord, often complaining to their parents who ultimately enable co-dependent behavior. It's not healthy.

OP's daughter needs to suck it up. This won't be her life forever if she works hard hard. And OP needs to let her daughter fight her own battles instead of coming here to complain FOR her.

oy

Anonymous wrote:Kids don't work hard these days. Her retail job is dead end. Sure, it pays a bit, but if she's looking for growth in her field, she needs connections. Complaining about working extra hours unpaid at this point in her life is BS.

Millennials are such whiners. This is a temporary phase. And as a parent, you should encourage her to build her resume instead of enabling lazy behavior that will lead to "basement living" in your home.

NP here. I disagree. My father is the hardest working man I know, and growing up, he told me that unpaid internships are exploitation. Anyone who truly values hard work doesn't expect others to work for free.

Volunteer work is different. An internship is not volunteer work.

The distinguishing factor between volunteer and internship is that interns have less control over their hours. I don't see how anyone should be able to legally tell someone they have to work more unpaid hours. But I do think "internships" get around that. Otherwise, those campaigns and employers would just seek volunteers looking for experience (for which they get plenty).

But as other PPs have said, if OP's daughter wants to go into politics, perhaps she should get used to it.

If I were OP, I'd advise my child to think seriously about whether that is the field she wants to go into. Despite the positive anecdotal experiences listed here, I have a friend who volunteered (it wasn't an internship) for a campaign. He reduced his actual paying work hours (sacrificing pay he needed) because he really believed that somehow the volunteer work would lead to something. It never did lead to an actual job. He says he learned a lot about campaign work and made a lot of great contacts. But none of it amounted to a paying job. He moved back in with his parents and is exploring other career options.

I only mention that so that OP can caution her daughter to go into it eyes wide open. Sure, there is the potential that it will lead to other things. But there is no guarantee.

Kids don't work hard these days. Her retail job is dead end. Sure, it pays a bit, but if she's looking for growth in her field, she needs connections. Complaining about working extra hours unpaid at this point in her life is BS.

Millennials are such whiners. This is a temporary phase. And as a parent, you should encourage her to build her resume instead of enabling lazy behavior that will lead to "basement living" in your home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've done a lot of political work. Those hours are normal for that kind of work, maybe even a little better than normal. It's rough, but it's truly the best experience she can get if this is what she wants to do professionally.

I meant to add that sometimes after volunteering for the summer, these positions are made paid after Labor Day. A lot of people I worked with in my early days took off the fall semester of a presidential election year to work FT on the campaign. They all returned in Jabuary, all finished college, all are gainfully employed adults now.

Sure. Did you do their work until January? No. You profited by the free labor, right? And who paid their rent? Food, etc?

I don't understand your point. They took a semester off college. I didn't do their college work for them, they just didn't take classes. They were paid (the equivalent of about $30k/year), from August-December (after they decided to take the semester off). I made the same rate, but I was on payroll from February-December (I had graduated the spring before, worked on the Hill for 9 months, then left to work on the campaign). Nobody "profited". Our candidate happened to win, but I have friends who worked on the opponent's campaign, and their experiences and subsequent career advancement are similar.

We paid their own rent (or had parental help). In some cases, when the individual was from out of state and didn't have other housing options, rich donors or other campaign loyalists with big houses made rooms available for free. This was for the shorter term staff (Sept-Nov).

We paid for our own food. There was catered lunch and dinner during the week--it was really cheap, like $35 for the week, I think the caterer was a supporter and gave it to us at cost. There was often free food given by supporters. The "campaign moms" (usually the ones who opened up their houses) would bring us cookies in the afternoon. Wealthy (grown up) volunteers or other contributors would pay our bar tabs at night (we left the office at about 9 and went to the bar most nights).

I gained 15 pounds of campaign weight because there was no shortage of food (but there was a shortage of free time to go to the gym). I also don't remember worrying about money, more than any 23 year old does.

It was exhausting and at times very emotional, but it was one of the best jobs I ever had, and I don't think I was exploited. I am still friends with my coworkers from my campaign job, and the experience and connections have really helped me professionally.

Op, just offering some prospective - - there are some positions for those just graduated that are paid, and with benefits (though maybe only till the election - -who knows?) These are young people her age probably with more previous experience but they are her age and I can't believe they would be heartless. They would understanding I'm sure. If they aren't she needs to seek out another group.

It is legal. Just have her tell them how many hours she can volunteer. Or have her get a paying job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very typical of campaign/political work.

This. It's her choice. No one is beung "used." She can walk out anytime if she wants to. No victim here.

So says every abuser. Shame on you!

Look, I vaguely agree with you (though not your ridiculous hyperbole and diminishing of actual abuse) about a lot of internships. Most corporate ones have neither an educational component nor are teaching a skill. Political internships tend to be different. If you stick with it, you usually do end up with a paid gig if you want it and important career connections if you don't. There's a clear upside being offered in lieu of salary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very typical of campaign/political work.

This. It's her choice. No one is beung "used." She can walk out anytime if she wants to. No victim here.

Agreed. If she wants to get into politics it will take several of these types of gigs for her to get the foot in the door. If she's complaining already she needs to consider other fields.

My cousin did this for the second to last election cycle, and now she has risen in the ranks and stays at HQ. Her hours were, and still are, grueling, and the pay isn't great, but she gets to interact with HC, and she loves the job!

I did this but was able to cut back over part of the summer - I took the bar exam - which is probably nuts to do bar review and campaign volunteering together. Because I was a volunteer, I could do part time up to the bar exam and full time until the election. It turned out not to be a field I wanted to work in, but others got jobs from it. This was Clinton 1992 in a battleground state.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've done a lot of political work. Those hours are normal for that kind of work, maybe even a little better than normal. It's rough, but it's truly the best experience she can get if this is what she wants to do professionally.

I meant to add that sometimes after volunteering for the summer, these positions are made paid after Labor Day. A lot of people I worked with in my early days took off the fall semester of a presidential election year to work FT on the campaign. They all returned in Jabuary, all finished college, all are gainfully employed adults now.

That sounds amazing! What a great thing to do and have on a resume.

Ironic that the Democrats are championing higher minimum wage laws but don't pay their interns.