Anonymous wrote:
At this stage in life, many people have sowed their wild oats and are looking for something simply meaningful.

THAT'S RIGHT POINDEXTER! I'VE HAD MY FUN AND I'M READY TO SETTLE DOWN...WITH YOU!

That means no wild, uninhibited sex! That means no late nights and late mornings barely getting out of bed because of all the crazy sex we're having! And that DEFINITELY means no blow jobs! I sowed my wild oats and gave enough blow jobs to get me to where I am! NO BLOW JOBS FOR YOU! I'VE SOWN MY WILD OATES!

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP. Thanks for the advice. Most of it has been helpful, save the one crazy woman above who can't differentiate versions of the word "expectations" and sees everything as a sexual assault.

In any event, I think a few posters are reading past me. I'm not talking about having sex. I'm just finding it odd that women who are in their early 30s aren't wanting to figure out if there's chemistry (i.e., through a kiss) on date 2 or 3. These women seem content to go on 5-6 dates and they rarely "open up" either... I have no idea whether they are into me or whether we click because they play it so close to the vest. I never remember dating being like this in the late 20s. You'd think now that both sides have less time to figure it out things would be more direct. Again, this isn't about getting laid.

I think that on date 3, you need to raise the question of how thinges areally going. I think you may be playing too close to the vest yourself, and they feel like you're not connecting with them. It sounds to me like you may not have made any real connections yet, or that you are somehow not signaling closeness. Have you even tried taking her arm while walking, or sitting close in a booth? Even these days, women aren't going to make a move out of nowhere.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP. Thanks for the advice. Most of it has been helpful, save the one crazy woman above who can't differentiate versions of the word "expectations" and sees everything as a sexual assault.

In any event, I think a few posters are reading past me. I'm not talking about having sex. I'm just finding it odd that women who are in their early 30s aren't wanting to figure out if there's chemistry (i.e., through a kiss) on date 2 or 3. These women seem content to go on 5-6 dates and they rarely "open up" either... I have no idea whether they are into me or whether we click because they play it so close to the vest. I never remember dating being like this in the late 20s. You'd think now that both sides have less time to figure it out things would be more direct. Again, this isn't about getting laid.

I met my husband online 4.5 years ago; I was 28 and he was 32. We kissed on our 2nd date and I went to his place for dinner on our 4th date. We agreed to be exclusive and delete our online dating profiles that night and then we had sex.

I really liked him, though...maybe these women just aren't sure how they feel about you? I can't imagine going on 3+ dates without even a kiss.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never married, early 30s male here. Recently got out of a long term relationship. Finally taking the plunge into dating again. The last time I was single online dating was slightly less mainstream. So, this is my first time using apps like Bumble or Tinder. So far, the supply of high quality women in my target age range (27-35) is solid and I've gone on several dates. I'm going on a 2nd date today with a woman I am very attracted to and who is great "on paper" for me. That said, she (and a few others that I've met frankly) seem very cautious/conservative. I'm not looking for a hook up, but comments that these women have made make me wonder if my views on when physical stuff is supposed to happen are out of the mainstream. Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting sex on the first date, or even before monogamy, but the last time I was dating (late 20s) cooking dinner and watching a movie followed with a make out session (or more) was quite common around date #3. These women are giving me the vibe that's not normal to them. Am I picking the wrong women? Has dating changed that much between late 20s and early 30s? Is it the medium (online)?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Your whole concept about "expectations" is wrong. You seem to think that it's OK to "expect" that a woman make out with you by date X, because you're not "expecting sex".

Unwanted sex is rape. Unwanted sexual contact is sexual assault. "Expecting" that a woman would do anything sexual with you is a reflection of rape culture.

You may want a particular kind of sexual contact at a particular time and she may not. That doesn't mean that she has violated some kind of cultural "expectation".

You do see how "expectation" is tied to rape culture, don't you?

You get to ask when you feel the need; that is normal.
She gets to say no whenever she wants; that is also normal.
Focus more on consent and less on what she is "expected" to do.

NP:

Just stop. A man expecting sex from a women is not "rape culture." He never implied that he was going to force himself on her. He's just saying that he is hoping for sex after x number of dates, or he's moving on (ending the relationship). That is his prerogative. That's not "rape culture."

Some "feminists" need to stop appropriating the term "rape" to mean things that it doesn't mean. It ultimately causes people to take rape less seriously.

I'm the OP. Thanks for the advice. Most of it has been helpful, save the one crazy woman above who can't differentiate versions of the word "expectations" and sees everything as a sexual assault.

In any event, I think a few posters are reading past me. I'm not talking about having sex. I'm just finding it odd that women who are in their early 30s aren't wanting to figure out if there's chemistry (i.e., through a kiss) on date 2 or 3. These women seem content to go on 5-6 dates and they rarely "open up" either... I have no idea whether they are into me or whether we click because they play it so close to the vest. I never remember dating being like this in the late 20s. You'd think now that both sides have less time to figure it out things would be more direct. Again, this isn't about getting laid.

I agree that because these are all basically blind dates, women are more cautious than if they had met you at a party or something where they could assume you had mutual acquaintances. So even though it seems like you know more about each other because of the profiles and the texting, there's less depth in terms of knowing what's true and false.

Also, if they are also seeing a number of people from the dating site, they may not want to get intimate with you until they have more of a sense it's going somewhere. If they get the sense from you that you're having a lot of "success" and that you're dating a lot, that's probably going to put you further away on the sex time scale for any woman who isn't just looking for sex. It's not an audition.

Anonymous wrote:Go ahead, become pickier as you get older and lose leverage. This isn't the time for games. Women in their 20s can play games because there is an endless supply of men just waiting to stick their faces between their legs. Those odds decline once you hit 30.

So go ahead. Be picky. Play games with otherwise well qualified men under the guise of "I can't figure out if you're a decent guy in 2 or 3 dates."

Better start figuring it out, sweetheart, or you'll be making the same complaints when you're in your 30s and still sitting on the sidelines.

Being smart about your safety is being picky, now? Hope you don't have a daughter.

Anonymous wrote:I'm your age and it probably takes me about 5 dates to get comfortable with a house visit on average. I kiss on the second date if there's chemistry. Not hard and fast rules but guys who hint at coming over early on usually turn me off.

This

You may be giving off a vibe that makes them uncomfortable

The bottom line is that most women have had some negative experiences with online dating. There are guys out there that say that they want relationships, etc. but they are really looking for just quick and easy hook-ups.

When I meet a stranger from an online site, I am usually a bit more vocal about making it clear that I am not going to sleep with them right away. Nothing is really all that different from regular dating (I still find a make out session on date 3 or 4 to be the norm, sex after 5-6 dates if the vibe is right).

Women are just more open about telling you that they aren't going to hop in bed with you if they meet you online. It's a way to weed out the ones that won't wait more than 3 dates for sex. If a guy has a hard and fast rule about not waiting more than that, he is probably not a very high quality guy.

Anonymous wrote:Never married, early 30s male here. Recently got out of a long term relationship. Finally taking the plunge into dating again. The last time I was single online dating was slightly less mainstream. So, this is my first time using apps like Bumble or Tinder. So far, the supply of high quality women in my target age range (27-35) is solid and I've gone on several dates. I'm going on a 2nd date today with a woman I am very attracted to and who is great "on paper" for me. That said, she (and a few others that I've met frankly) seem very cautious/conservative. I'm not looking for a hook up, but comments that these women have made make me wonder if my views on when physical stuff is supposed to happen are out of the mainstream. Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting sex on the first date, or even before monogamy, but the last time I was dating (late 20s) cooking dinner and watching a movie followed with a make out session (or more) was quite common around date #3. These women are giving me the vibe that's not normal to them. Am I picking the wrong women? Has dating changed that much between late 20s and early 30s? Is it the medium (online)?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Your whole concept about "expectations" is wrong. You seem to think that it's OK to "expect" that a woman make out with you by date X, because you're not "expecting sex".

Unwanted sex is rape. Unwanted sexual contact is sexual assault. "Expecting" that a woman would do anything sexual with you is a reflection of rape culture.

You may want a particular kind of sexual contact at a particular time and she may not. That doesn't mean that she has violated some kind of cultural "expectation".

You do see how "expectation" is tied to rape culture, don't you?

You get to ask when you feel the need; that is normal.
She gets to say no whenever she wants; that is also normal.
Focus more on consent and less on what she is "expected" to do.

You are older now so you are of course dating older too now.

At this stage in life, many people have sowed their wild oats and are looking for something simply meaningful.

And to get there.....You need to take things a lot slower than when you were young + dumb.

Go ahead, become pickier as you get older and lose leverage. This isn't the time for games. Women in their 20s can play games because there is an endless supply of men just waiting to stick their faces between their legs. Those odds decline once you hit 30.

So go ahead. Be picky. Play games with otherwise well qualified men under the guise of "I can't figure out if you're a decent guy in 2 or 3 dates."

Better start figuring it out, sweetheart, or you'll be making the same complaints when you're in your 30s and still sitting on the sidelines.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A woman in her 30s probably has better expectations for herself and her date than dinner, chill , and make out especially if she's like many women in that age group who are seriously thinking of finding a husband and potential husband before 35.

If you're looking for a more movie and chill type relationship you might have better luck with a mid to late 20 something who still feels she has all the time in the world.

Female logic is just absurd and gets even worse the older they get. Like how the older they get they don't have "all the time in the world," yet they get pickier and hold out longer.

OP, pump 'em and dump 'em. 1) stop looking for a relationship and 2) especially before if you know if these women are worth one.

OP, see this guy right here? This is your problem.

There is literally NO way to tell from 2-3 dates if you're a decent guy, or this guy.

Decent men of the world, come get your boy. This knuckle-dragger is messing it up for the lot of you.

Anonymous wrote:I'm your age and it probably takes me about 5 dates to get comfortable with a house visit on average. I kiss on the second date if there's chemistry. Not hard and fast rules but guys who hint at coming over early on usually turn me off.

+1. I met you online for chrissakes. I really don't know you at all. After two dates, you could be a nice guy or you could be an axe murderer who can hold it together for a few days; I'm still not sure which. I'm not going over to your house for dinner and making out on date 3. It's not safe for me. I'm not even all that comfortable by date 5 at your house, but YMMV.

Pre-online dating, I met you thru something - work, friends, softball, whatever. If I didn't know you, I met you in a way that I knew someone who knew someone who knew you. And I could get some comfort from the fact that someone in that chain would alert me if you were trouble.

Now all I can do is read your profile, listen to what you tell me about yourself and Google you later to see if you're lying. That still doesn't tell me much about whether you're a safe guy or not.

Think about it.

Don't be one of those creepy guys whose always pushing for sex, and then labeling her if she doesn't want to jump you.

You might know you're safe, but to me, given the past 30 years of my life, I've learned that sometimes guys I thought were "nice" or "safe" upon first meeting were actually guys who were sexist or harassed me or pushed me to engage in sexual activity I didn't want.

Respect my boundaries, don't test them.

Anonymous wrote:A woman in her 30s probably has better expectations for herself and her date than dinner, chill , and make out especially if she's like many women in that age group who are seriously thinking of finding a husband and potential husband before 35.

If you're looking for a more movie and chill type relationship you might have better luck with a mid to late 20 something who still feels she has all the time in the world.

Female logic is just absurd and gets even worse the older they get. Like how the older they get they don't have "all the time in the world," yet they get pickier and hold out longer.

OP, pump 'em and dump 'em. 1) stop looking for a relationship and 2) especially before if you know if these women are worth one.