Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 15:46     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
takoma wrote:Americans have many different outlook and expectations. Some wonderful people may have well-motivated reasons for voting in ways that seem insane to me. If I am a patriotic American, my loyalty should be to the American people, including those I disagree with, including those misguided enough (in my own personal view) to start divisive threads like this one.

And I hope others will feel that way even about people who write preachy notes like this.


I like you. You're reasonable. It's refreshing when we have so many crazy people posting here.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 15:33     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I think Latino support is probably more than some expect. My DIL is Hispanic and she is planning on voting for Trump as are some of her friends who are also Hispanic. I think the divide is among those who came here legally - and are not activists - where support for Trump is more marked.


Did you ask your DIL and your Hispanic friends how they feel about Trump now that he accused a judge of being biased because his parents are Mexican?


First,as a point of clarification I said it is my DIL's Hispanic friends who plan on voting for Trump.

To respond to your question: we talk politics often and her response to Trump's accusation about the judge is nuanced. She agrees with Trump that it is possible that most Hispanics may be impacted in how they feel about Trump because of his positions on illegal immigration. However, she says that she does not know if Curiel would allow his personal feelings to affect his jurisprudence.

FWIW, she and her friends feel that Obama and the Democrats have used the issue of illegal immigration as a wedge issue to alienate Hispanics from the Republicans. She says that if it really had been a priority for Obama, he could have passed comprehensive immigration reform in the first two years of his initial term when he had control of the House and an almost filibuster proof majority in the Senate. But if they had done that, it would have been a non-issue in 2012 and 2016 and the dominance that Democrats have with the Hispanic vote would have dissipated.

Also, lest anyone think that she is one of the "uneducated" who support Trump, she has a PhD and is well employed.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 15:09     Subject: Re:If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am independent but if he wins, I will blame the lack of an educated populace and the fact that politicians and the media (particularly Fox News) do not feel their job is to correct incorrect ideas or information.

It is sad - when they poll other countries, Trump loses by a lot particularly among our allies. But he does win in Russia, China and North Korea where of course, there is an interest in having a malleable person in charge of the US.


I always have a problem with this line of reasoning because it is some within the same populace who voted decisively for Obama in 08 and 12. Rightwing sites always attribute the Obama victory to "low information" voters - so I guess both Democrats and Republicans appear to agree that the uneducated voters are responsible for the victory by the other side.


I thought Romney would have made a better President than Obama before that election although i probably like Obama more now than at any point in his first 8 years. So I would have been fine with a Romney win if that would be the result of taking away the votes of an uneducated populace. That's what is nice about not being partisan - you can be consistent without changing your views depending on which party would win. it amazes me that any social conservative or fiscal conservative would support Trump who was a moderate Democrat before he started running as a Republican. What is amazing is if you put a D in front of his name but kept everything else exactly the same (rhetoric, policy views, etc.), Republicans would hate him.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 15:01     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
Al Gore or Ralph Nader
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 14:52     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
First, I will blame the people who voted for him. Next, I will blame the people who know he's a horror show and think he will be a horrible president, but who couldn't bring themselves to vote for (who they perceive to be) the lesser of the two evils.

I'm not sure why it has to be any more complicated than that.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 14:50     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
Anonymous wrote:
takoma wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
takoma wrote:Americans have many different outlook and expectations. Some wonderful people may have well-motivated reasons for voting in ways that seem insane to me. If I am a patriotic American, my loyalty should be to the American people, including those I disagree with, including those misguided enough (in my own personal view) to start divisive threads like this one.

And I hope others will feel that way even about people who write preachy notes like this.
As someone whose posts I respect, I am surprised that you think I am seeking to be divisive. What prompted me to post this topic was Jeff's citing of the PPP poll in PA that showed the race to be even. Unlike many of my liberal compatriots, I don't think a Trump presidency is out of the question. He has tapped into a strain of real discontent with the status quo, as did Bernie.

Since I know friends and associates and even family members who planning on voting for Trump, I assure you that they are not racists or bigots.

I apologize for misreading your intent. It looked to me that you were inviting a flurry of blame-throwing, but as I said in the previous note, there are often good motives that are not clear to me.

I definitely agree that a Trump win can happen. It scares me senseless because I fear his view of leadership is closer to Mussolini than to FDR or Reagan.


Apology accepted and I thank you for it.

In fairness, I sometimes encourage discussion - which is what I sought to do in this instance. My own leanings are decidedly liberal but I can't blindly dismiss what may be the reality. I was the OP on the thread that showed apparently surprising Hispanic support for Trump and you see two schools of reaction - there are those who dismiss the poll because the link was from Fox News although the actual poll was from another entity. Then there are others who were more open to its possible significance.

I think Latino support is probably more than some expect. My DIL is Hispanic and she is planning on voting for Trump as are some of her friends who are also Hispanic. I think the divide is among those who came here legally - and are not activists - where support for Trump is more marked.

For my part, I am fearful of a Trump presidency mainly because he lacks the knowledge that any president should have about world issues. What is even more bothersome is that he does not seem to feel a need to develop that knowledge even after he was likely to get the nomination. He has a authoritarian bent, probably from his background as the CEO of a large company, where everyone does his bidding. He does not seem to realize that it is a different ballgame when you have other players who will not take orders.


Did you ask your DIL and your Hispanic friends how they feel about Trump now that he accused a judge of being biased because his parents are Mexican?
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 14:45     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
takoma wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
takoma wrote:Americans have many different outlook and expectations. Some wonderful people may have well-motivated reasons for voting in ways that seem insane to me. If I am a patriotic American, my loyalty should be to the American people, including those I disagree with, including those misguided enough (in my own personal view) to start divisive threads like this one.

And I hope others will feel that way even about people who write preachy notes like this.
As someone whose posts I respect, I am surprised that you think I am seeking to be divisive. What prompted me to post this topic was Jeff's citing of the PPP poll in PA that showed the race to be even. Unlike many of my liberal compatriots, I don't think a Trump presidency is out of the question. He has tapped into a strain of real discontent with the status quo, as did Bernie.

Since I know friends and associates and even family members who planning on voting for Trump, I assure you that they are not racists or bigots.

I apologize for misreading your intent. It looked to me that you were inviting a flurry of blame-throwing, but as I said in the previous note, there are often good motives that are not clear to me.

I definitely agree that a Trump win can happen. It scares me senseless because I fear his view of leadership is closer to Mussolini than to FDR or Reagan.


Apology accepted and I thank you for it.

In fairness, I sometimes encourage discussion - which is what I sought to do in this instance. My own leanings are decidedly liberal but I can't blindly dismiss what may be the reality. I was the OP on the thread that showed apparently surprising Hispanic support for Trump and you see two schools of reaction - there are those who dismiss the poll because the link was from Fox News although the actual poll was from another entity. Then there are others who were more open to its possible significance.

I think Latino support is probably more than some expect. My DIL is Hispanic and she is planning on voting for Trump as are some of her friends who are also Hispanic. I think the divide is among those who came here legally - and are not activists - where support for Trump is more marked.

For my part, I am fearful of a Trump presidency mainly because he lacks the knowledge that any president should have about world issues. What is even more bothersome is that he does not seem to feel a need to develop that knowledge even after he was likely to get the nomination. He has a authoritarian bent, probably from his background as the CEO of a large company, where everyone does his bidding. He does not seem to realize that it is a different ballgame when you have other players who will not take orders.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 14:29     Subject: Re:If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
Anonymous wrote:I am independent but if he wins, I will blame the lack of an educated populace and the fact that politicians and the media (particularly Fox News) do not feel their job is to correct incorrect ideas or information.

It is sad - when they poll other countries, Trump loses by a lot particularly among our allies. But he does win in Russia, China and North Korea where of course, there is an interest in having a malleable person in charge of the US.


I always have a problem with this line of reasoning because it is some within the same populace who voted decisively for Obama in 08 and 12. Rightwing sites always attribute the Obama victory to "low information" voters - so I guess both Democrats and Republicans appear to agree that the uneducated voters are responsible for the victory by the other side.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 13:57     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
Anonymous wrote:I'll blame the people who put their hatred for Hillary over their love of this country.

Trump is a loose cannon with zero political experience. Not to mention a blatant racist and sexist. For anyone sane enough to see this and still choose to vote for him because "Hillary is worse" is, well, insane.


Yup
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 13:56     Subject: Re:If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
I am independent but if he wins, I will blame the lack of an educated populace and the fact that politicians and the media (particularly Fox News) do not feel their job is to correct incorrect ideas or information.

It is sad - when they poll other countries, Trump loses by a lot particularly among our allies. But he does win in Russia, China and North Korea where of course, there is an interest in having a malleable person in charge of the US.
takoma
Post 06/09/2016 13:28     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
Anonymous wrote:
takoma wrote:Americans have many different outlook and expectations. Some wonderful people may have well-motivated reasons for voting in ways that seem insane to me. If I am a patriotic American, my loyalty should be to the American people, including those I disagree with, including those misguided enough (in my own personal view) to start divisive threads like this one.

And I hope others will feel that way even about people who write preachy notes like this.
As someone whose posts I respect, I am surprised that you think I am seeking to be divisive. What prompted me to post this topic was Jeff's citing of the PPP poll in PA that showed the race to be even. Unlike many of my liberal compatriots, I don't think a Trump presidency is out of the question. He has tapped into a strain of real discontent with the status quo, as did Bernie.

Since I know friends and associates and even family members who planning on voting for Trump, I assure you that they are not racists or bigots.

I apologize for misreading your intent. It looked to me that you were inviting a flurry of blame-throwing, but as I said in the previous note, there are often good motives that are not clear to me.

I definitely agree that a Trump win can happen. It scares me senseless because I fear his view of leadership is closer to Mussolini than to FDR or Reagan.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 12:41     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
Anonymous wrote:I'll blame the people who put their hatred for Hillary over their love of this country.

Trump is a loose cannon with zero political experience. Not to mention a blatant racist and sexist. For anyone sane enough to see this and still choose to vote for him because "Hillary is worse" is, well, insane.
+1. Love of country down the toilet. Love of me, me, me (Trump's mantra) is all that matters.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 12:41     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
takoma wrote:Americans have many different outlook and expectations. Some wonderful people may have well-motivated reasons for voting in ways that seem insane to me. If I am a patriotic American, my loyalty should be to the American people, including those I disagree with, including those misguided enough (in my own personal view) to start divisive threads like this one.

And I hope others will feel that way even about people who write preachy notes like this.


As someone whose posts I respect, I am surprised that you think I am seeking to be divisive. What prompted me to post this topic was Jeff's citing of the PPP poll in PA that showed the race to be even. Unlike many of my liberal compatriots, I don't think a Trump presidency is out of the question. He has tapped into a strain of real discontent with the status quo, as did Bernie.

Since I know friends and associates and even family members who planning on voting for Trump, I assure you that they are not racists or bigots.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 12:38     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
I blame dumb voters, Republicans, and conservative media.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2016 12:36     Subject: If Trump wins the general, who will liberals blame?
I can't how imagine how arrogant and self-centered you would have to be to assume that everyone who doesn't agree with you is therefore an idiot. I thought only mentally ill people believed that.