Anonymous wrote:Well, you mention that the mom has lamented to you about her 13 year old son who is angry and abusive to the kids. She's already expressed fear about leaving Alex and his sister home with the older son. I sense that she already suspects something is going on. You telling her about what happened might be the best thing for everyone involved because she'll finally have someone forcing her to address what I bet is a nagging fear. Does the 13 year old have a phone and computer? The mother should be checking out viewing history, text messages, etc. Do any of her kids get anxious when the Dad is coming home after a three-month absence?

I second this. It's possible that this is the piece that she needs to solve the problem of what's going on with her kids/family. And if not, at least you tried and she can't deny it. I would say if she shows an indication of denial, you have CPS investigate based on the interaction between your son and this boy. He's clearly being abused by somebody and neither you nor their mom is equipped to respond. You need professional help. She needs professional help. Stop the cycle of abuse.

I agree that you should report this.

However, I also think that you should adjust your responses to your son - you don't need to say "ew" and "gross." This may prevent him from telling you if anything else happens because you have given him the message that you are disgusted.

If you and your husband talk to your son anymore, I'd strongly encourage framing it as "unwanted touching" rather than "gross" and reminding him that it wasn't his fault and that he's the boss of his own body.

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't find the specific acts to be that disturbing and explored similar things with other boys at that age, despite none of the kids involved having been abused (to the best of my knowledge).

What I do find worrying is that the other boy seemed very focused on it while your son was indicating discomfort. It doesn't sound like mutual curiosity.

+1. Had it been casual and mutual interest, I would consider it within the range of normal, though not something that could be treated as acceptable. The red flag, I think, is the persistence in the face of someone else's discomfort... clearly Alex has somehow gotten a skewed idea about it being okay to touch people in ways they do not want, and does not seem to understand that nobody should be touching anybody else in a way that makes them uncomfortable. I echo the PPs that I would be concerned Alex has been exposed to something inappropriate or is being abused, and because of that possibility his mother needs to be informed immediately in order to protect him. At the absolute least, if nothing like that is going on, his mother needs to know in order to work on reinforcing appropriate boundaries.

Well, you mention that the mom has lamented to you about her 13 year old son who is angry and abusive to the kids. She's already expressed fear about leaving Alex and his sister home with the older son. I sense that she already suspects something is going on. You telling her about what happened might be the best thing for everyone involved because she'll finally have someone forcing her to address what I bet is a nagging fear. Does the 13 year old have a phone and computer? The mother should be checking out viewing history, text messages, etc. Do any of her kids get anxious when the Dad is coming home after a three-month absence?

Unfortunately, it's not unusual for boys to be molested by their peers rather than older boys and adults. This is especially true during the teenaged years. Alex might be headed down a dark path leaving a string of confused victims as he goes. His mother needs to know there was inappropriate touching. The boy needs therapy.

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't find the specific acts to be that disturbing and explored similar things with other boys at that age, despite none of the kids involved having been abused (to the best of my knowledge).

What I do find worrying is that the other boy seemed very focused on it while your son was indicating discomfort. It doesn't sound like mutual curiosity.

Alex stick his hands in Freddy's anus and you don't find that unusual?

Agree that you must tell his mother in in doing so, make it clear that she is not permitted to talk to you son about this. At all. Ever. The process of helping your son deal with this and move on without any long term damage is something you must manage and forcing your son to talk to Alex's mom about this would only make it worse for you son. So, make it absolutely clear that she may not talk to Freddy about this...because she'll surely want to.

When I was around 4 some little boy wanted to show me his in a bathroom, and wanted me to show mine. I just walked out, not wanting any part of it. So, if it's just showing I think that's one thing, but any touching is crossing a line. I wouldn't want my kid playing with that kid. I think the mother needs to know, and it doesn't matter what other stress she has going on. You can't trust that kid anymore, unfortunately.

I actually don't find the specific acts to be that disturbing and explored similar things with other boys at that age, despite none of the kids involved having been abused (to the best of my knowledge).

What I do find worrying is that the other boy seemed very focused on it while your son was indicating discomfort. It doesn't sound like mutual curiosity.

Anonymous wrote:Alex sodomized your son and described sexual acts to him that no 6 year old just knows. I would call CPS on this family and let them figure out who is abusing this child because someone is. And distance your son from Alex.

+1

Not normal at all. Alex is probably being molested by someone. Maybe it's his brother, or maybe Alex and his brother are both being molested by someone else. You do need to tell the mother there was inappropriate touching between Alex and Freddy so she can instruct her son to stop. (Whether he does or not is a different story.) Obviously, Freddy and Alex should never be unsupervised and Freddy should not play at Alex's house. This is so sad.

Alex sodomized your son and described sexual acts to him that no 6 year old just knows. I would call CPS on this family and let them figure out who is abusing this child because someone is. And distance your son from Alex.

Anonymous wrote:Thank you guys so much. I knew this wasn't normal, husband didn't think it was either, but I was scared maybe it was I and shouldn't worry mom with my overreaction.

First pp, I'm not sure if my son even said no to know if it was respected or not. And now I don't want to keep bringing it up to refresh it in his mind. :/

Do you think I should wait until her husband is home, which is a couple weeks, so as not to give her additional stress? I don't want to push her over the edge with worry, but I also feel like addressing it now might not make it seem like it's totally the worst thing in the world.

You should tell her right away. Wetting the bed at 6 years old and the violent reaction to being woken up is a sign of distress.

Alex knows it's wrong and is looking to a friend to normalize it. Your son knew it was wrong and let you know about it the only way he knew how.

I wouldn't cut him off as others are suggesting because he and his mother both need attention and help, not shunning. Tell her right away.

Anonymous wrote:So sorry op. It's not normal at all.
I would never play with Alex again. Huge red flags.
It's not even age appropriate curiosuty. Someone is showing him these actions and the kid is obviously obsessed with it. And because your child told you so much, I'm willing to bet there was even more going on. Love your child, mom, and don't make him see this friend ever again.
-coming from someone who was abused, twice, by my brother's friends as a kid.

This, OP, this.

You also asked about whether to wait to tell the mom once the dad is home. You fear causing her stress. Please do NOT wait to tell her; it will only raise the question with her and her husband of "Why did you wait so long if this really did happen--?" Tell her and don't mince words. And I worry that you will tell her and couch everything with, "Well, maybe this is just normal play but..." or "This might just be curiosity and I don't want to blow it out of proportion" etc. Please don't hedge your words like that. You know that what was going on was beyond normal curiosity. In fact, you might need to tell her directly that you believe her son has been abused somewhere, by someone, or he would not have picked up these specific and fixed ideas.

The fact that Alex did these approaches to your son not just once but over and over, repeatedly, is a strong indication that his mind is inordinately full of these behaviors. He was pursuing your son to act out this behavior. Huge red flag that he is being abused or possibly witnessing another kid being abused. The mom is very possibly going to deny any possibility of that, say that son is never without her around or she trusts their sitters/relatives/teachers, etc. Be prepared for that kind of reaction. Be prepared for her possibly to go off on you in huge anger and denial or to blame your own son. If you are prepared for such reactions you will be able to avoid backtracking or saying, "Well, maybe I overreacted" etc. Don't backtrack.

I also worry a bit about your post that noted that you really enjoy this family's company. I hope you won't continue to put your son anywhere remotely near Alex or any other kids from his family, out of some sense that you can help them if you let the kids have "normal" friendships, etc. And although this mom is stressed and coping without her husband present, please don't let any ideas of trying to help her out let you put your son into any contact with Alex -- even supervised contact where you are right in the room. Just seeing Alex willl keep this fresh in your son's mind. It's hard to think of cutting off this family but you really need to do so. If the mom wants to see you, solo, as a friend, no kids present, and you can help her navigate getting help for her son somehow, that's one thing. But your son should not see Alex any more under any circumstances.

Trust your gut.

I would want to know if it were my child. Because if something bad was happening I would be furious if you hadn't said anything. But at the best possible scenario I would still want to know so I can tell my son to knock it off with the penis showing and butt touching. No good can come of keeping it a secret, even if it's innocent and no abuse is going on. Tell the mom.