Anonymous wrote:Op here. Pocket money is an interesting idea, but then I feel like it makes the rewards system less valuable because he'll have the money that he needs to buy what he wants. I see PP's point that without him having any money (he had over $100 at one point and spent it on frivolous things), then he's reliant on good behavior to earn points and subsequent purchases. For a kid that struggles with being controlled and taking direction, maybe that's pissing him off.

Kids are allowed to spend money on frivolous things. We all are.

Op here. Pocket money is an interesting idea, but then I feel like it makes the rewards system less valuable because he'll have the money that he needs to buy what he wants. I see PP's point that without him having any money (he had over $100 at one point and spent it on frivolous things), then he's reliant on good behavior to earn points and subsequent purchases. For a kid that struggles with being controlled and taking direction, maybe that's pissing him off.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We have him on a points system where he can earn rewards. Just last night we took him to a store to buy some craft thing that he wanted and had earned with his points. That's what is so frustrating. Today we take him somewhere and he's pissed because we won't buy him what he wants. Well we just bought him something yesterday. He is never satisfied and totally disregards what we just did for him. The points system can be so frustrating because he can be a total jerk but doesn't lose points that he has earned because that's what his therapist tells us. So frustrating because as parents we give him our all and get little in return. I know parents shouldn't expect much, but it's very lopsided in this case and often makes us feel defeated.

OP- I really like the idea of pocket money. At our house, my DS craves independence but is highly immature due to ADHD and social pragmatics. He can be defiant and inflexible.
Pocket money gives him a sense of control and it's tangible because I make him pay at the register. Right now, I think your DS sees "you" as the obstacle between himself and what he wants- and he may see the rules as arbitrary, especially with ODD. An allowance (no strings- just a bit of spending money for being part of the family) may help him control himself and mature a bit when he realizes that things cost money.
As for being ungrateful, I know with ADHD it's a very much "in the moment" condition. It's nothing for my son to be overjoyed about what I do for him in one moment, then turn around the next and be angry because he wants something else. Appreciation and big picture thinking are not there (yet) because of the impulsivity and difficulty delaying gratification. I know it's hard- I see how mature DS's peers are in comparison and it makes me weary.
As for the therapist, I have two thoughts-- first, you cannot fight battles on all fronts. If there is a point system for doing well for a particular task, don't take the points for something else. You'll be fighting all kinds of battles and getting nowhere. Second, whatever method you use be consistent and ready for some fall out until things are well established. For instance, if you use pocket money, don't supplement it, unless it's by advance agreement (e.g. agree in advance that your son will pay for half of something).
Good luck.

^Me again. My DC has anxiety and OCD also and the higher level of SSRI that adequately helps the OCD definitely brings some aggression. We haven't tried any additional meds to deal with that and are working on behavioral interventions now, but if this got worse with the SSRI dosage, that's also probably related.

Can you work with him to get to the root of his motivation? It probably is not so much that he wants whatever the "thing" of the moment is, but it carries some other sort of importance for him. A reward for running an errand, something to look forward to for forcing himself out of his comfort zone? My kid has thrown huge tantrums over something that I know was not intrinsically important, but the act of having me buy it held greater meaning. I'm sure he can't easily articulate it but maybe with the therapist, you could get him thinking. Then you could address the problem before he goes somewhere with you. "I know you don't want to go to the grocery store with me but how about we agree ahead of time that you can pick an ice cream flavor when we get to that section?" And then no extras. Stick to the agreed plan.

This is what helped us - I know every kid is different. I feel your pain about feeling like you are in an abusive relationship. My only consolation is that my kid used to be abusive to everyone and know mostly holds it together with the rest of the world. So I'll call that progress. I also agree that puberty hormones are a bear and that boys often feel aggression and don't even know why.

Can your DH take him on a trip for the weekend or longer so you can get a break and maybe start to break your son out of this cycle? Can you take a trip and leave DH with your son?
I'm sorry this is happening, OP.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Hope that's not me. Some helpful advice here. I talked with DH this morning and the reality is that I'm in an abusive relationship with my son. For whatever reason, I'm his whipping boy and he gets angry at me for any reason. I feel pretty lost right now. He really needs to be away from me for a while but is so damn anxious that he can barely handle a one night sleepover. I wish we could find the right med cocktail also. His current SSRI isn't cutting it by itself.

Meant to say nope it's not me at the start.

Op here. Hope that's not me. Some helpful advice here. I talked with DH this morning and the reality is that I'm in an abusive relationship with my son. For whatever reason, I'm his whipping boy and he gets angry at me for any reason. I feel pretty lost right now. He really needs to be away from me for a while but is so damn anxious that he can barely handle a one night sleepover. I wish we could find the right med cocktail also. His current SSRI isn't cutting it by itself.

OP, is this the child who gets you up in the morning and insists you go down to the basement with him and so forth and you can't leave him alone for a second -- because he has anxiety and OCD?

I think it's time you consider a day program to deal with the symptoms of his anxiety and OCD. You've been posting for quite a while about the difficulties your family has.

I have a friend who just started a day program with her child with OCD/anxiety and it is difficult but it seems to be effective.

The Rogers hospital systems have programs for children. I know they are in the midwest. Perhaps they can give you referrals to more local programs, or maybe that will work for you.

Anonymous wrote:I doubt 20:06 has a SN kid. You have my sympathy OP b/c when puberty hits, it's hard.

I do.

And several special needs family members.

My advice is sound. What she is doing is not working. What uer therapist recommends is not working. The technique she is using is not going to yeild the long term results she wants. She needs to do something different to get different results. Giving him his own spending money (not a point system) might yield better results. Giving him ways to earn his own money will not only give better results, but it will also empower him, help him to feel like and grow into being a teenager, and will help him to learn skills he desperately needs to eventually become an independent, functioning adult.

Anonymous wrote:Whenever we travel somewhere, DS always wants to buy something. We go to the grocery store and he asks for ice cream. We go shopping and he wants some stupid trinket. If we say no, he always asks why and then proceeds to call us every bad name he can think of. Why the F-CK do I always have to give a reason for "no"and why does he have to act like a toddler with a tantrum when he doesn't get what he wants? It's always the same, no matter how we try to prep him for the trip in advance and work on being flexible. He has major anxiety and ODD and is therapy and on meds, but still the behavior persists. It makes me hate weekends and taking him anywhere because he rarely shows appreciation. It's Saturday evening and I'm done with him!

If you want to solve this problem, you need to simply stop buying the stuff. Period.

So sorry, OP. I have no advice but only sympathy. We also have an explosive MS DS and I know how exhausting it is to have a child like that.

How is he when you go to stores where it's unlikely he will want anything, like a lamp store?

Do you stick to your shopping lists, or do you deviate and add things for yourself? Just guessing, but I'm betting any deviation makes him feel like you'll get whatever you want for you, but what he wants (or even what he feels like he needs) isn't important.

Have you given him his own money? It doesn't even need to be money he earns. You could give him $5 a week that's specifically for treats and trinkets, and the rule is you don't buy him any, he buys what he wants himself. This often works because sometimes parents will get a treat for a child and it's not what that child would have purchased himself. The parent feels like they got him a treat, but the child doesn't feel like he got a treat.

Does he have healthy, appropriate ways of displaying he is upset or angry? He can say he is very mad at you, disappointed in the situation, but he cannot call names.

In my experience, points systems where you don't take back points are sometimes necessary for children who are really struggling. If they can lose points, they will never gain enough points to get the reward, which makes the point system absolutely useless and they will stop trying.

I doubt 20:06 has a SN kid. You have my sympathy OP b/c when puberty hits, it's hard.

Anonymous wrote:What does the therapist say?
Is there a different medical professional who knows him and could offer insight?
Have you read Ross Greene's The Explosive Child?

Op here. Yes I've read it and try to Plan B (collaborative problem solve) but sometimes the answer "no" should be okay without insighting abusive responses.