Anonymous wrote:In addition to my post above - the timeline for the school to address your request for evaluations does not get put on hold during the summer. The county has a team that does these evaluations over the summer. Even when school is closed, the district has a responsibility to address these referrals. But if your child is meeting or exceeding expectations in all or most areas, an IEP and the evaluation process may not be the right path.

+1. It is true that the timeline doesn't get put on hold during the summer. The timeline is strict. If you've made a written request for an IEP, the school has 30 days to schedule the 1st meeting, in which they determine if there is a "reasonable suspicion" of a disability that adversely impacts education and necessitates special instruction. If the team determines, yes, then they have another 60 days to do the assessment and hold a final "IEP determination" meeting. This is the meeting where they give a clear yes/no to having an IEP. If yes, then the team has another 30 days to write the IEP.

These timelines cannot be broken just because of summer vacation. But, you might consider whether it's to your advantage to have the meeting during the school year. If you have a teacher who has been supportive in arguing for your child's needs, you can request to have them present at the IEP meeting. But, if the meeting is held in the summer, most teachers are gone and can't participate. The law says that the IEP team has to have at least one general education teacher participating. It's better if there's one that knows your child and agrees that your child needs an IEP, but in the summer, the school system will dig up whatever live general education body they have to comply with the law.

FYI, sometimes the team will collapse the timeline. For example, if an IEP request is accompanied by a private neuropsych report, the team might decide to hold eligibility and determination together, particularly if the report is comprehensive enough and from qualified personnel, that the school psych doesn't want to waste her limited time doing more testing. Or the determination and IEP draft meeting might be held together. A good special ed school realizes it's better to combine some of these meetings.

Thank you for the prayers, and thank you all for the responses. We had the EMT meeting. Fortunately, although I think they were pretty much going to try and move us along without a 504 or anything of the sort I managed to use the correct phrasing to get an evaluation from the school psychologist. They were basically telling us that the accomodations the teacher is giving her are "best practices" and that even without them she'd be succeeding at the grade level expectations. The teacher then said she thought maybe my kid wouldn't be suceeding at the grade level expectations if she weren't using these accomodations (like checking in frequently with her, breaking up assignments into smaller parts, having a classmate give her a cue to get up and join groups etc...) because she wouldn't be completing her work so there would be nothing to grade. Her major problems are in writing though and not reading or math. The problem is right now, in third grade, even without accomodations and being very distracted or whatever she can do the grade level material because she is working above grade level. They stressed how they are not required to support her in above grade level material. It's very dispiriting. Basically if she could walk in the class room right now and get a P in grade level material (which in 3rd grade work she could) they don't need to offer formal support because they aren't required to help her do accelerated work. One thing is she will be going to one of the gifted centers next year...maybe this will help. Not sure. But for now at least the psychologist will observe her. At least that's something! We are just trying to help her after constant complaints from her teacher all year that she isn't completing work and is having problems.

Hi! I just wanted you to know that I am praying for you. I can offer little advice as far as public school goes, but I want to encourage you to keep advocating for your child. It sounds like you are doing a great job of that already. Here is a link to an article that might help. http://bit.ly/26NJzJE Continued prayers for you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't everyone do better with fewer distractions and preferential seating? Aren't there many children who don't finish their work? Without an official diagnosis, I can't see the school granting you and the child these advantages. There could be any number of reasons why a bright child doesn't finish schoolwork.

Well, they might...but this hasn't been a matter of just wanting my kid to do better, but of my kid even being able to finish her work, or her tests, or join her group at their table, or follow most directions. Her teacher does have the rest of the class as a comparison point and even though my kid is reading at an advanced level and has high MAP scores, she will often be the very last kid in the class to complete work, and only because her teacher has given her extra time or extra direction or prompting. I was also hoping that the school could help us get a diagnosis. We cannot afford out of pocket private testing right now. We do have an appointment in the summer scheduled at the hospital and hope that our insurance will cover some of it...but I'm hoping the school will evaluate her at least to the extent that they could then provide her with formal accomodations.

I'm the pessimist from before. My child had the ADHD diagnosis from the expensive neuropsych. He completes less than 10% of his assignments, rarely joins his group, and does not follow most directions. I asked for additional evaluations relating to speech/language and similar issues that private practitioners had flagged, and they denied it because they said he was working at or above grade level, and therefore there was no educational impact from any disability. They pulled out the 10% of assignments that he had completed and said that showed he was capable of grade level work. We did get a 504 with a lot of accommodations, so you may be able to get that, particularly if the teacher is savvy enough to say the right things to the school psychologist. Our teacher, while very nice, is not very educated about ADHD, and her opinion is that our child is "capable" of doing the work and "just doesn't try."
Also, if you press your pediatrician for a diagnosis just so that you can get the accommodations, they might be willing to give you one. They are capable of giving the Dx, but the good ones are reluctant to do it, as they are not expert and therefore not really the best qualified to do so. But if you make it clear you're looking for the school accommodations and not medications at this point, the pediatrician might be willing to give you the diagnosis.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to do a $3500 neuropsych to get an ADHD diagnosis. Go to your pediatrician. The doctor will do a screening, probably much like was already done. If it comes up positive, the doctor will give you the diagnosis. If you have good insurance, all you pay is the co-pay.

Yes, before anyone jumps on me, a neuropsych is the gold standard, but not all of us have the money for the gold standard and we have to settle for doing the best we can.

PP this is horrible advice. Even with your caveat, this is horrible advice.

Most of us do not have $4K lying around to get the full battery neuro/psycho educational testing, that said I am here to tell you that at 3rd grade is when a lot of these issues are caught...because up to THAT point school's been pretty much a breeze with very little being asked of the children academically speaking. So just because OP's child is working "at grade level" which means nothing and is worth only the paper is written on, OP needs to make sure that there are no other issues going on. A pediatrician cannot do this for you.

If you don't or can't see a psychologist OP, at a minimum let the school test your child. I am not a proponent of letting the county test my kid, but its better than letting the pediatrician "diagnose" your child. For christ's sake! At least with the school, they are the ones that see your child in an academic setting where the problems are occurring.

Okay, off my soap box.

+1000

I agree with this, too, OP. Pediatricians make a diagnosis based on questionnaires. All they can see are behaviors. They have absolutely no clue what is causing the behaviors. A lot of inaccurate diagnoses happen this way: a dyslexic or anxious child gets diagnosed with ADHD; a severely inattentive child doesn't get diagnosed. My very experienced pediatrician told me that she hates being put in the position to diagnose ADHD and always wants parents to do extensive formal testing, but that she does it when she feels that it is the only way for the child to get some help (ie, meds).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to do a $3500 neuropsych to get an ADHD diagnosis. Go to your pediatrician. The doctor will do a screening, probably much like was already done. If it comes up positive, the doctor will give you the diagnosis. If you have good insurance, all you pay is the co-pay.

Yes, before anyone jumps on me, a neuropsych is the gold standard, but not all of us have the money for the gold standard and we have to settle for doing the best we can.

PP this is horrible advice. Even with your caveat, this is horrible advice.

Most of us do not have $4K lying around to get the full battery neuro/psycho educational testing, that said I am here to tell you that at 3rd grade is when a lot of these issues are caught...because up to THAT point school's been pretty much a breeze with very little being asked of the children academically speaking. So just because OP's child is working "at grade level" which means nothing and is worth only the paper is written on, OP needs to make sure that there are no other issues going on. A pediatrician cannot do this for you.

If you don't or can't see a psychologist OP, at a minimum let the school test your child. I am not a proponent of letting the county test my kid, but its better than letting the pediatrician "diagnose" your child. For christ's sake! At least with the school, they are the ones that see your child in an academic setting where the problems are occurring.

Okay, off my soap box.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't everyone do better with fewer distractions and preferential seating? Aren't there many children who don't finish their work? Without an official diagnosis, I can't see the school granting you and the child these advantages. There could be any number of reasons why a bright child doesn't finish schoolwork.

Well, they might...but this hasn't been a matter of just wanting my kid to do better, but of my kid even being able to finish her work, or her tests, or join her group at their table, or follow most directions. Her teacher does have the rest of the class as a comparison point and even though my kid is reading at an advanced level and has high MAP scores, she will often be the very last kid in the class to complete work, and only because her teacher has given her extra time or extra direction or prompting. I was also hoping that the school could help us get a diagnosis. We cannot afford out of pocket private testing right now. We do have an appointment in the summer scheduled at the hospital and hope that our insurance will cover some of it...but I'm hoping the school will evaluate her at least to the extent that they could then provide her with formal accomodations.

For ADHD, MCPS policy is that the school psychologist provides the diagnosis

See Pages 2-4 of the MCPS 504 handbook, Especially section F.1
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/studentservices/mentalhealth/handbook504.pdf

And the ADHD form the school psychologist completes


http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/forms/pdf/270-2a.pdf

The disability has to be documented by multiple methods, but an official diagnosis is not required.

See here under "evaluation"

http://www.chadd.org/Understanding-ADHD/For-Parents-Caregivers/Education/Section-504.aspx

Also, the county may have a team that is supposed to do something over the summer, but when we requested an IEP at the end of the school year, they did nothing until a month into the following year.

What does the child say the reason is for not doing her work? Does she generally not follow direction at home? Is there defiance (I don't want to do that) or just cluelessness (assignment? What assignment?)?

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't everyone do better with fewer distractions and preferential seating? Aren't there many children who don't finish their work? Without an official diagnosis, I can't see the school granting you and the child these advantages. There could be any number of reasons why a bright child doesn't finish schoolwork.

Well, they might...but this hasn't been a matter of just wanting my kid to do better, but of my kid even being able to finish her work, or her tests, or join her group at their table, or follow most directions. Her teacher does have the rest of the class as a comparison point and even though my kid is reading at an advanced level and has high MAP scores, she will often be the very last kid in the class to complete work, and only because her teacher has given her extra time or extra direction or prompting. I was also hoping that the school could help us get a diagnosis. We cannot afford out of pocket private testing right now. We do have an appointment in the summer scheduled at the hospital and hope that our insurance will cover some of it...but I'm hoping the school will evaluate her at least to the extent that they could then provide her with formal accomodations.

In some districts now, a school psych can provide the information to identify a child as having ADHD for the purposes of OHI. Previously, it did need to be a medical diagnosis.

A child can receive an IEP by qualifying for Other Health Impairment for ADHD, with or without the diagnosis. However, they must need specialized instruction and not just accommodations.

This is the definition of other health impairment:

Other health impairment means having limited strength, vitality, or alertness, including a heightened alertness to environmental stimuli, that results in limited alertness with respect to the educational environment, that--
(i) Is due to chronic or acute health problems such as asthma, attention deficit disorder or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, diabetes, epilepsy, a heart condition, hemophilia, lead poisoning, leukemia, nephritis, rheumatic fever, sickle cell anemia, and Tourette syndrome; and
(ii) Adversely affects a child's educational performance.

I have never seen or heard of being able to be classified as having an Other Health Impairment without a diagnosis. There has to be a chronic or acute health problem, which implies diagnosis.

Wouldn't everyone do better with fewer distractions and preferential seating? Aren't there many children who don't finish their work? Without an official diagnosis, I can't see the school granting you and the child these advantages. There could be any number of reasons why a bright child doesn't finish schoolwork.

In addition to my post above - the timeline for the school to address your request for evaluations does not get put on hold during the summer. The county has a team that does these evaluations over the summer. Even when school is closed, the district has a responsibility to address these referrals. But if your child is meeting or exceeding expectations in all or most areas, an IEP and the evaluation process may not be the right path.

A 504 requires a diagnosed disability and will only provide accommodations and possible some services like OT and PT or vision services. An IEP does not require a medical diagnosis. The school team (gen Ed teacher, sped teacher, possibly a school psych, etc) will evaluate the child and determine if the child presents with delays so severe that special education and related services are provided. As a parent, you can make a formal referral for special education evaluations. I believe the timeline for the school to complete the evaluations is 60 days.

A child can receive an IEP by qualifying for Other Health Impairment for ADHD, with or without the diagnosis. However, they must need specialized instruction and not just accommodations.

In order to require accommodations through a 504, the diagnosis is needed.

All that said. Every child had a right to succeed and revive what supports they need in order to access their education. The accommodations you described are things that should be expected if a child needs them.