OP here. My past supervisor at my current job was demoted. My current supervisor is going down the same path. So, yes, I am leaving a bad situation that I did not create.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP again. I should also add that I know what follow up questions to ask to get past a generic good reference and find out if the person is really a star.

Lol. You are contradicting yourself. You said you were burned by peer references. If you know the right follow up questions you wouldn't have been burned...

My follow up questions were borne of being burned by that experience. But as a supervisor, I can tell you that peers do not typically have the perspective to provide accurate info. There are a lot of people I worked with who I thought were great workers until I started supervising them and saw their work product up close.

Anonymous wrote:PP again. I should also add that I know what follow up questions to ask to get past a generic good reference and find out if the person is really a star.

Lol. You are contradicting yourself. You said you were burned by peer references. If you know the right follow up questions you wouldn't have been burned...

PP again. I should also add that I know what follow up questions to ask to get past a generic good reference and find out if the person is really a star.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just tell them they can't contact your current employer. That's very normal and they shouldn't have a problem with it. If they do, or insist on contacting anyways, that's not a company you want to work for.

Well the federal gov't certainly has a problem with it! My husband was applying for a position at the SEC and they said it was required that they have a current supervisor even after he explained that it would put his current job in jeopardy. The feds just don't understand what cutthroat real world business is like and that you may not want your boss knowing you are looking at other jobs. It was very nerve wracking and he almost walked away. He was able to find a partner that he felt he could trust to serve as the reference.

I ran into the same problem with a different agency, and it wasn't just to verify employment before making an offer. They wanted to contact every final round candidate's current supervisor even though they only had budget for one hire.

Wow, that's horrible. They have no right to that information.

I'm a federal manager who will not hire you without talking to your current supervisor. I don't do it for all final round applicants, just right before I give you an offer. I've been burned by people who provided their friends as references and then turned out to be nightmares who we can't fire (especially people coming from other agencies who don't get a new probation period when they start at our agency). Unlike the private sector, we can be stuck with bad employees for life, so I'm not taking chances.

And how's that working out for you? Have you not run into the common practice in the fed gov that if you want to get rid of some one, the best way to do it is to give them a great reference and make them some one else's problem. It's way easier and quicker than initiating the two year document, performance improvement, eventual fire, and then years of litigation afterwards - as I'm sure you know.

It's actually working out great. I'm a lawyer in practice area where everybody knows everybody. Nobody would risk their reputation giving a bad performer a glowing reference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just tell them they can't contact your current employer. That's very normal and they shouldn't have a problem with it. If they do, or insist on contacting anyways, that's not a company you want to work for.

Well the federal gov't certainly has a problem with it! My husband was applying for a position at the SEC and they said it was required that they have a current supervisor even after he explained that it would put his current job in jeopardy. The feds just don't understand what cutthroat real world business is like and that you may not want your boss knowing you are looking at other jobs. It was very nerve wracking and he almost walked away. He was able to find a partner that he felt he could trust to serve as the reference.

I ran into the same problem with a different agency, and it wasn't just to verify employment before making an offer. They wanted to contact every final round candidate's current supervisor even though they only had budget for one hire.

Wow, that's horrible. They have no right to that information.

I'm a federal manager who will not hire you without talking to your current supervisor. I don't do it for all final round applicants, just right before I give you an offer. I've been burned by people who provided their friends as references and then turned out to be nightmares who we can't fire (especially people coming from other agencies who don't get a new probation period when they start at our agency). Unlike the private sector, we can be stuck with bad employees for life, so I'm not taking chances.

And how's that working out for you? Have you not run into the common practice in the fed gov that if you want to get rid of some one, the best way to do it is to give them a great reference and make them some one else's problem. It's way easier and quicker than initiating the two year document, performance improvement, eventual fire, and then years of litigation afterwards - as I'm sure you know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just tell them they can't contact your current employer. That's very normal and they shouldn't have a problem with it. If they do, or insist on contacting anyways, that's not a company you want to work for.

Well the federal gov't certainly has a problem with it! My husband was applying for a position at the SEC and they said it was required that they have a current supervisor even after he explained that it would put his current job in jeopardy. The feds just don't understand what cutthroat real world business is like and that you may not want your boss knowing you are looking at other jobs. It was very nerve wracking and he almost walked away. He was able to find a partner that he felt he could trust to serve as the reference.

I ran into the same problem with a different agency, and it wasn't just to verify employment before making an offer. They wanted to contact every final round candidate's current supervisor even though they only had budget for one hire.

Wow, that's horrible. They have no right to that information.

I'm a federal manager who will not hire you without talking to your current supervisor. I don't do it for all final round applicants, just right before I give you an offer. I've been burned by people who provided their friends as references and then turned out to be nightmares who we can't fire (especially people coming from other agencies who don't get a new probation period when they start at our agency). Unlike the private sector, we can be stuck with bad employees for life, so I'm not taking chances.

How does that solve your bad employee problem? If the person is terrible, and since you say you can't fire people, the current supervisor is more than likely to sing the praises of a bad person so they can get rid of them.

It's sort of okay if it's basically that they are giving you an offer but it's conditional on a good reference from current employer. Anything else just stinks and frankly will probably rule out strong candidates. My current fed position pushed for a reference from a partner at my law firm when I joined years ago. I had to push back hard and only gave them a go once I had s conditional offer. My firm did not know I was looking and I actually wasn't really looking - if the fed position hadn't come through I didn't really plan on leaving right away. It could have been career suicide. Also, I wanted to know what I was being offered in terms of salary and a few other particulars first.

It's short sighted because I was well liked at my firm. If it was a situation where I was being pushed out then it would probably have been easy to provide the reference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just tell them they can't contact your current employer. That's very normal and they shouldn't have a problem with it. If they do, or insist on contacting anyways, that's not a company you want to work for.

Well the federal gov't certainly has a problem with it! My husband was applying for a position at the SEC and they said it was required that they have a current supervisor even after he explained that it would put his current job in jeopardy. The feds just don't understand what cutthroat real world business is like and that you may not want your boss knowing you are looking at other jobs. It was very nerve wracking and he almost walked away. He was able to find a partner that he felt he could trust to serve as the reference.

I ran into the same problem with a different agency, and it wasn't just to verify employment before making an offer. They wanted to contact every final round candidate's current supervisor even though they only had budget for one hire.

Wow, that's horrible. They have no right to that information.

I'm a federal manager who will not hire you without talking to your current supervisor. I don't do it for all final round applicants, just right before I give you an offer. I've been burned by people who provided their friends as references and then turned out to be nightmares who we can't fire (especially people coming from other agencies who don't get a new probation period when they start at our agency). Unlike the private sector, we can be stuck with bad employees for life, so I'm not taking chances.

I'm a Fed. I got a promotion about 6 months ago. They only wanted references from my current and former supervisors. I thought it was odd, but that's standard for this agency.Good luck.

I almost applied to a job that wanted letters of recommendation from last two supervisors at time of application. Then the whole thing just seemed too ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just tell them they can't contact your current employer. That's very normal and they shouldn't have a problem with it. If they do, or insist on contacting anyways, that's not a company you want to work for.

Well the federal gov't certainly has a problem with it! My husband was applying for a position at the SEC and they said it was required that they have a current supervisor even after he explained that it would put his current job in jeopardy. The feds just don't understand what cutthroat real world business is like and that you may not want your boss knowing you are looking at other jobs. It was very nerve wracking and he almost walked away. He was able to find a partner that he felt he could trust to serve as the reference.

I ran into the same problem with a different agency, and it wasn't just to verify employment before making an offer. They wanted to contact every final round candidate's current supervisor even though they only had budget for one hire.

Wow, that's horrible. They have no right to that information.

I'm at a foreign service agency where my team lead is always foreign service, but my long-term perm director is civil service. The director is probably who folks have in mind when they think of my boss, but if some one really insisted, I'd give them my latest FS team lead - officially that person is the first layer in my supervision (though they mostly just sign off on paperwork, they don't give me technical direction), so it's valid, but the FSOs aren't wedded enough to our DC office to care that I'm interviewing - especially when they're on their way out, or already off at language training.

I don't think its ridiculous or inappropriate for them to want to talk to someone from your current company. First, they want to know you're not taking the job just to escape a bad situation. Second, since you won't want 50 future employers calling your current boss, you agreeing to the request suggests a sincere interest in joining them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just tell them they can't contact your current employer. That's very normal and they shouldn't have a problem with it. If they do, or insist on contacting anyways, that's not a company you want to work for.

Well the federal gov't certainly has a problem with it! My husband was applying for a position at the SEC and they said it was required that they have a current supervisor even after he explained that it would put his current job in jeopardy. The feds just don't understand what cutthroat real world business is like and that you may not want your boss knowing you are looking at other jobs. It was very nerve wracking and he almost walked away. He was able to find a partner that he felt he could trust to serve as the reference.

Had the same thing at the SEC but I was able to give a co-worker as a reference.

OP here. I have a feeling that he just wanted a response from me. After asking, I supplied my list of references. One of my references had surgery this week, so I have to give a home number since they are out.