Anonymous
Post 05/29/2016 14:56     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:OP, if you really want your kid in AAP, you will be able to get him in there. Test scores are really not that important in the overall scheme of things. In the first round, maybe. I think for kids who don't make the initial cut off, they make you go through the hassle of getting extra tests and appealing because they want to ensure the parental engagement is there.

My son got 136 on his NNAT, 140 composite Cogat, in pool, denied entry first round. We didn't appeal, as he is in immersion and we prefer that. I've seen kids with scores in the low teens make it in with very noisy parents pushing the school. If you can pay for a wisc, it seems like every single one done by certain "highly recommended" offices will give your child a 99%ile. This often is adequate to get in to AAP.

All this to say that not all the kids who get in to AAP are truly "gifted." Not all kids who are there belong there. The teaching isn't all that differentiated anymore.

Make no mistake about it... AAP has become a socially acceptable way to segregate the higher and lower SES levels in Fairfax county.


My friend's daughter got a 120 on the WISC with Diana Dahlgren. Stop spouting information about which you know nothing. While it has been said on this board before, it is absolutely not true that if a parent makes enough noise, his/her kid will get into AAP. Other than the packet, the committee that offers or rejects admission knows nothing about an individual parent's noise. Clump this morsel of falsehood along with:

--Parents who volunteer at the school a lot can ensure their kids get high GBRS

--Go to x or y psychologist and you WILL get a high WISC for your child

--If the committee sees the parents are interested, the committee will admit the children

--My child acts out because he is bored and has been since kindergarten when he started TEACHING the other students.
Anonymous
Post 05/29/2016 11:38     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:OP, if you really want your kid in AAP, you will be able to get him in there. Test scores are really not that important in the overall scheme of things. In the first round, maybe. I think for kids who don't make the initial cut off, they make you go through the hassle of getting extra tests and appealing because they want to ensure the parental engagement is there.

My son got 136 on his NNAT, 140 composite Cogat, in pool, denied entry first round. We didn't appeal, as he is in immersion and we prefer that. I've seen kids with scores in the low teens make it in with very noisy parents pushing the school. If you can pay for a wisc, it seems like every single one done by certain "highly recommended" offices will give your child a 99%ile. This often is adequate to get in to AAP.

All this to say that not all the kids who get in to AAP are truly "gifted." Not all kids who are there belong there. The teaching isn't all that differentiated anymore.

Make no mistake about it... AAP has become a socially acceptable way to segregate the higher and lower SES levels in Fairfax county.


-1000
Anonymous
Post 05/29/2016 11:29     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
OP, if you really want your kid in AAP, you will be able to get him in there. Test scores are really not that important in the overall scheme of things. In the first round, maybe. I think for kids who don't make the initial cut off, they make you go through the hassle of getting extra tests and appealing because they want to ensure the parental engagement is there.

My son got 136 on his NNAT, 140 composite Cogat, in pool, denied entry first round. We didn't appeal, as he is in immersion and we prefer that. I've seen kids with scores in the low teens make it in with very noisy parents pushing the school. If you can pay for a wisc, it seems like every single one done by certain "highly recommended" offices will give your child a 99%ile. This often is adequate to get in to AAP.

All this to say that not all the kids who get in to AAP are truly "gifted." Not all kids who are there belong there. The teaching isn't all that differentiated anymore.

Make no mistake about it... AAP has become a socially acceptable way to segregate the higher and lower SES levels in Fairfax county.
Anonymous
Post 05/29/2016 09:16     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Those are low scores, pp. did you have a Wisc test to counteract them?


Nope. I don't even know what a Wisc is. The GBRS was a 16 though.


That is really surprising. Typically a GBRS of 16 won't be enough to balance those mediocre scores. Indeed, I don't recall ever seeing a post with scores like that and a kid getting in even with a 16 GBRS.


Yeah-- I don't see this happening. Even child has been in "TAG since kindy" (love to know what public school does FT GT at age 5, especially for a kid whose parent uses the word "kindy."). Either the CogAT score is a subtest and the full score is higher or PP is full of sh@t (which is my vie: I don't know what a WISC is, but his GBRS is 16?? Come on. If you are involved enough to know the CogAT, NNAT & GBRS, and hang out on the AAP forum, you know what a WISC is, even if you have not had one done).


Our school district started their gifted program in kindergarten. My kid was one of two out of five classes of kindergartners placed into the program.

My niece in Missouri was placed into her school's gifted program in kindergarten.

There are school districts that start their gifted program in kindergarten. They tend to service just a tiny handful of kids in the early grades.
Anonymous
Post 05/29/2016 08:57     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
You need a composite of 132 on either test to be sure to be "in." For those one here, being gifted does not mean success in school normdoes it mean success in life. They is the point of AAP, selecting those who have the possibility to be learn quickly etc. Kids going into AAP only leaves room for non AAP students room to without a doubt become the leaders of their classrooms and schools. Also guving teachers more time to teach. Parents alway post in here how great their kids do without AAP. Well, what if the AAP students never left the classroom and the teachers had no time to develop other students academic talents and these students never got the classroom leadership skill b/c there were four students in class the teacher was constantly dealting with b/c they they needed no instruction on multiplication or fractions. The teacher was constantly giving them other work or dealing woh them miss behaving b/c they were beyond bored. Plus, all the super smart kids end up at TJ or Private schools, so these non AAP student are most likely never in class with them again after 2nd grade. They are non ever again compared to eacher.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2016 12:46     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:1st grade DS just received his NNAT of 120. I did not know they tested in 1st and DS has never taken a test before. DS is advanced in math, gets mostly 4s on his report card. He got 3s in music and language arts. I actually picked up a NNAT book after he took the test not knowing they even test in 1st grade. I thought they only tested in 2nd for 3rd grade AAP consideration.

DH and I are disappointed with his test score. Wondering if my child has any shot. I know he could do better. Don't think he understood many of the questions. I am not trying to make excuses for DS. I just think it would have made a big difference if my 6yo had at least seen the type of question before.[/quote]

Yes, he might have done better if he understood the questions and if he had seen the type of question before, which is the very reason kids can't take the test again within a 6 month period. The test is supposed to capture the high ability kids who have NOT seen the type of testing before. Meaning: your child should do fine on these tests without prepping. You should also know that prepping would have perhaps changed the score a few points. He isn't going to go from a 120 to a 132 from prepping.


This. You need to back off and let your kid learn. Worrying about gaming a test for a 1st grader is ridiculous.

I remember when one of my kids took either the NNAT or the CogAT. The teacher read the test to them and he couldn't even hear all the questions. I did nothing. He stayed in Gen Ed and is in all AP classes now with a 4.7 GPA. AAP, Gen Ed? It does not matter.


Sorry, I meant for this, his senior year. Last year as a junior he had a 5.0

You had me until 4.7 GPA. Which is mathematically impossible in FCPS, even if you are a straight A student and take all honors with a .5 grade bump and 10 APs with a 1.0 bump-- especially since you get no bump on PE, foreign language, and electives, and top out at a 4.0 in those classes. Even at TJ (where it is easier to get GPA bumps) the highest GPA this year was just over a 4.5. Maybe a 4.7 GOA this year/semester or last? But no way as a cumulative GPA once non- AP freshman classes and largely non-AP sophomore classes factor in. Nice try though.


What classes did he take and what school allowed 7 APs junior year?


No school under AP, because it's honors English (.5 bump) until 12th. So a 5.0 is not possible. PP is just trying to prove how exceptional her GE kid is ("he has a 5.0, which is impossible for mere mortals, while the loser former AAP kids only have a 4.8."). So people never outgrow middle school.

But isn't it possible for a strong foreign language student who took 1-2 years in MS to do AP foreign language in 11th and AP foreign Lit in 12th? Or is that not how that works. My kids are not FL rock stars, so I never checked that closely.

BTW-- also probably not possible to get a 5.0 Junior year w/ IB. Most IB classes cover 2 years, so you will get the foreign language and English 1.0 bump Junior and Senior years. But you are not allowed to do a 7th IB subject. Or does TOK get a 1.0 bump? I would think not. But I guess it is possible.


There is an AP English class for junior year and one for senior year. One is writing and one is lit. Only immersion kids can end up taking AP language by junior year otherwise only one year of foreign language in middle school ( which can be split between the two years).
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2016 12:25     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:1st grade DS just received his NNAT of 120. I did not know they tested in 1st and DS has never taken a test before. DS is advanced in math, gets mostly 4s on his report card. He got 3s in music and language arts. I actually picked up a NNAT book after he took the test not knowing they even test in 1st grade. I thought they only tested in 2nd for 3rd grade AAP consideration.

DH and I are disappointed with his test score. Wondering if my child has any shot. I know he could do better. Don't think he understood many of the questions. I am not trying to make excuses for DS. I just think it would have made a big difference if my 6yo had at least seen the type of question before.[/quote]

Yes, he might have done better if he understood the questions and if he had seen the type of question before, which is the very reason kids can't take the test again within a 6 month period. The test is supposed to capture the high ability kids who have NOT seen the type of testing before. Meaning: your child should do fine on these tests without prepping. You should also know that prepping would have perhaps changed the score a few points. He isn't going to go from a 120 to a 132 from prepping.


This. You need to back off and let your kid learn. Worrying about gaming a test for a 1st grader is ridiculous.

I remember when one of my kids took either the NNAT or the CogAT. The teacher read the test to them and he couldn't even hear all the questions. I did nothing. He stayed in Gen Ed and is in all AP classes now with a 4.7 GPA. AAP, Gen Ed? It does not matter.


Sorry, I meant for this, his senior year. Last year as a junior he had a 5.0

You had me until 4.7 GPA. Which is mathematically impossible in FCPS, even if you are a straight A student and take all honors with a .5 grade bump and 10 APs with a 1.0 bump-- especially since you get no bump on PE, foreign language, and electives, and top out at a 4.0 in those classes. Even at TJ (where it is easier to get GPA bumps) the highest GPA this year was just over a 4.5. Maybe a 4.7 GOA this year/semester or last? But no way as a cumulative GPA once non- AP freshman classes and largely non-AP sophomore classes factor in. Nice try though.


What classes did he take and what school allowed 7 APs junior year?


No school under AP, because it's honors English (.5 bump) until 12th. So a 5.0 is not possible. PP is just trying to prove how exceptional her GE kid is ("he has a 5.0, which is impossible for mere mortals, while the loser former AAP kids only have a 4.8."). So people never outgrow middle school.

But isn't it possible for a strong foreign language student who took 1-2 years in MS to do AP foreign language in 11th and AP foreign Lit in 12th? Or is that not how that works. My kids are not FL rock stars, so I never checked that closely.

BTW-- also probably not possible to get a 5.0 Junior year w/ IB. Most IB classes cover 2 years, so you will get the foreign language and English 1.0 bump Junior and Senior years. But you are not allowed to do a 7th IB subject. Or does TOK get a 1.0 bump? I would think not. But I guess it is possible.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2016 12:23     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a poor tester, I will reiterate that test scores are not the end all be all for getting in. My DS did horribly on the NNAT and was not in pool on CogAT, either, although did have one subset over the benchmark (but the whole score was not) and still got in based on parent referral, teacher comments, GBRS, etc.



I was glad to read this. We are appealing due to the overwhelming ability in the classroom and a 15 GBRS score. I'm not sure it will work, but when all previous, current, and gifted teachers say child is gifted and school work in math and language arts is above fused level, this student is performing sand needs enrichment. It was assumed child would get high test scores. Child is not faking an extremely high level of work or interaction with adults. Tests are not good for all kids. If a kid is a great tester, and that's it, they may not need an advanced academic program. There are a few children who do not fit the mold.


Post back when you hear. Good luck!
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2016 12:09     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:1st grade DS just received his NNAT of 120. I did not know they tested in 1st and DS has never taken a test before. DS is advanced in math, gets mostly 4s on his report card. He got 3s in music and language arts. I actually picked up a NNAT book after he took the test not knowing they even test in 1st grade. I thought they only tested in 2nd for 3rd grade AAP consideration.

DH and I are disappointed with his test score. Wondering if my child has any shot. I know he could do better. Don't think he understood many of the questions. I am not trying to make excuses for DS. I just think it would have made a big difference if my 6yo had at least seen the type of question before.[/quote]

Yes, he might have done better if he understood the questions and if he had seen the type of question before, which is the very reason kids can't take the test again within a 6 month period. The test is supposed to capture the high ability kids who have NOT seen the type of testing before. Meaning: your child should do fine on these tests without prepping. You should also know that prepping would have perhaps changed the score a few points. He isn't going to go from a 120 to a 132 from prepping.


This. You need to back off and let your kid learn. Worrying about gaming a test for a 1st grader is ridiculous.

I remember when one of my kids took either the NNAT or the CogAT. The teacher read the test to them and he couldn't even hear all the questions. I did nothing. He stayed in Gen Ed and is in all AP classes now with a 4.7 GPA. AAP, Gen Ed? It does not matter.


Sorry, I meant for this, his senior year. Last year as a junior he had a 5.0

You had me until 4.7 GPA. Which is mathematically impossible in FCPS, even if you are a straight A student and take all honors with a .5 grade bump and 10 APs with a 1.0 bump-- especially since you get no bump on PE, foreign language, and electives, and top out at a 4.0 in those classes. Even at TJ (where it is easier to get GPA bumps) the highest GPA this year was just over a 4.5. Maybe a 4.7 GOA this year/semester or last? But no way as a cumulative GPA once non- AP freshman classes and largely non-AP sophomore classes factor in. Nice try though.


What classes did he take and what school allowed 7 APs junior year?
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2016 12:03     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a poor tester, I will reiterate that test scores are not the end all be all for getting in. My DS did horribly on the NNAT and was not in pool on CogAT, either, although did have one subset over the benchmark (but the whole score was not) and still got in based on parent referral, teacher comments, GBRS, etc.



I was glad to read this. We are appealing due to the overwhelming ability in the classroom and a 15 GBRS score. I'm not sure it will work, but when all previous, current, and gifted teachers say child is gifted and school work in math and language arts is above fused level, this student is performing sand needs enrichment. It was assumed child would get high test scores. Child is not faking an extremely high level of work or interaction with adults. Tests are not good for all kids. If a kid is a great tester, and that's it, they may not need an advanced academic program. There are a few children who do not fit the mold.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2016 11:59     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:^^ a sample schedule for a kid in advanced math junior year would be: AP Calc, AP history, AP Foreign Lang. 2x AP science (Biology & Chemistry or Physics) and AP Stats. I was not aware you could get AP English in 11th-- I though it was honors only-- so you can't make a 5.0 because English honors would get the .5 bump, and not 1.0. So straight As would be a 4.8 or so, not a 5.0. But maybe some schools
Let you take AP English language in 11th and AP lit in 12th? DC's HS does not, but maybe it is possible some places? But that is on day to get at least a 4.8 junior year. Senior year: could do AP English, AP foreign language lit, the AP science you skipped, AP history, mutivariable Calc (post AP gets a 1.0 bump) and 2 throwaway classes, like AP psych and AP economics, which makes a 5.0 for straight As possible.

But, I think it's sad that kids are dropping art, band, orchestra, drama, academy classes, etc to take AP classes with marginal value (like psych) just to inflate GPA.


Unless the kid was in immersion and not AAP in ES, AP language is not until senior year.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2016 10:21     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
As a parent of a poor tester, I will reiterate that test scores are not the end all be all for getting in. My DS did horribly on the NNAT and was not in pool on CogAT, either, although did have one subset over the benchmark (but the whole score was not) and still got in based on parent referral, teacher comments, GBRS, etc.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2016 09:18     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Those are low scores, pp. did you have a Wisc test to counteract them?


Nope. I don't even know what a Wisc is. The GBRS was a 16 though.


That is really surprising. Typically a GBRS of 16 won't be enough to balance those mediocre scores. Indeed, I don't recall ever seeing a post with scores like that and a kid getting in even with a 16 GBRS.


Because the board is skewed with people posting high scores. I have a friend whose kid got in this year with similar scores. I was shocked, but I really don't care because I think the whole process is a farce. I would have never thought to refer with those scores, but now I know you should refer if both scores are above 100 and at least one is in the high teens.
Anonymous
Post 05/24/2016 08:30     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Those are low scores, pp. did you have a Wisc test to counteract them?


Nope. I don't even know what a Wisc is. The GBRS was a 16 though.


That is really surprising. Typically a GBRS of 16 won't be enough to balance those mediocre scores. Indeed, I don't recall ever seeing a post with scores like that and a kid getting in even with a 16 GBRS.


Yeah-- I don't see this happening. Even child has been in "TAG since kindy" (love to know what public school does FT GT at age 5, especially for a kid whose parent uses the word "kindy."). Either the CogAT score is a subtest and the full score is higher or PP is full of sh@t (which is my vie: I don't know what a WISC is, but his GBRS is 16?? Come on. If you are involved enough to know the CogAT, NNAT & GBRS, and hang out on the AAP forum, you know what a WISC is, even if you have not had one done).
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2016 12:59     Subject: What type of scores do you need to get into AAP in 3rd grade?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Those are low scores, pp. did you have a Wisc test to counteract them?


Nope. I don't even know what a Wisc is. The GBRS was a 16 though.


That is really surprising. Typically a GBRS of 16 won't be enough to balance those mediocre scores. Indeed, I don't recall ever seeing a post with scores like that and a kid getting in even with a 16 GBRS.


The board looks at the package as a whole. Work samples, GBRS and letters of recommendation (from previous out of state educators of our child) were submitted on top of the test scores. It doesn't surprise me, not every case is typical.