Anonymous wrote:OP...you didn't get the memo. Women are the planners whether we want to be or not. We take on the psychic energy of the family and have to remember everything. Men can handle assignments, but they can't handle the planning of everything. God knows how/why they run most corporations.

Men run large corporations and countries because those things require big picture skills and a cooperative effort -- the same skills that allow men to not get offended by the small and imagined slights on which so many of the discussions on this site thrive. Rare is the woman who can run a large team without it collapsing under petty jealousies and real or imagined backstabbing, all of which is corrosive to large team-building. On the other hand, women tend to thrive in small team building and organization (the "planners", as you call them). As you point out, woman can handle "the planning of everything", but when the task requires large scale coordination and cooperation (think Ike planning D-Day) and significant obedience (think of the soldiers storming the beaches), well, then bring in men.

Anonymous wrote:A grown-ass man can utilize a calendar and a telephone. Preach!

Nag!! You need to be tamed, shrew.

I'm the OP of the thread this OP is talking about. Here's the thing about my brothers and their wives. The wives control everything. They make the choice about where to spend holidays. They decide what presents to give or not give. My brothers are clueless and while their marriages don't resemble mine (my DH actually does a good bit of the logistical day to day stuff and keeps our calendar), I know what family I have and what I'm working with.

I don't think we need to enable. But we need to recognize that some marriages have this dynamic and you just have to work with the people you are stuck with.

And here's the rub to my annoying situation. Do you think my brothers will care when I inevitably stop participating in gift exchanges for their kids? No. They probably won't notice. Their wives will. This is another annoying thing I am thinking through. Since these women are obviously the only people who give a crap (on their end) and are the people who make all of the choices that created my awkward situations, then yes, I am going to focus my ire on them. Because it's more productive than having yet another call with my clueless brother who's defensive.

Anonymous wrote:OP...you didn't get the memo. Women are the planners whether we want to be or not. We take on the psychic energy of the family and have to remember everything. Men can handle assignments, but they can't handle the planning of everything. God knows how/why they run most corporations.

Really? Men as in all men? I guess my super-planner didn't get the memo

Once you choose a man, you don't get to complain about your choice.

Anonymous wrote:op: How can we get men to cook and clean at holiday time, instead of the burden falling on us? Lobby for a ban on college sports and pro sports?

Don't cook, don't clean. Go out with people you like

This is how I feel too. Not big on getting my nails done. Would rather sit in the backyard with the men and talk politics. But it does make you feel a bit like a space alien.

It's delightful letting go of gender roles and not giving in to others' pressure and expectations. Try it. My in-laws are hardcore traditionalists from another culture, where women do everything (and get blamed for every transgression of men's), while men sit around like princes smoking and drinking and being waited on.

I used to try to do things with the women, to bond with them, but they were and are so uncomfortable with me, it's as if I were a man. So I go sit with the men and have a drink and chat. Win win!

(Since I quit buying the gifts and cards for them it's been quite relaxing, too. I don't care if they blame me, when it's his responsibility. I'm nice enough to remind him, and if he wants to make an effort, he can.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP...you didn't get the memo. Women are the planners whether we want to be or not. We take on the psychic energy of the family and have to remember everything. Men can handle assignments, but they can't handle the planning of everything. God knows how/why they run most corporations.

Myths like this are what drive behavior and expectation. Stop. It. Men can handle calendars, phones, and credit cards. Really. No, really.

+1

Anonymous wrote:Stop it. SERIOUSLY! Your brother's wife is not "in charge" of remembering birthdays or acknowledging milestones, or of celebrating holidays. Your son's wife is not "in charge" of scheduling visits or remembering to call you every weekend.

Stop enabling men to be forgetful/selfish. Stop blaming women for "failures" on this front. A man is in charge of his own relationships and his own family dynamics. He doesn't stop being a son, brother, cousin or uncle the second he gets married. It's not SIL's fault, it's not DIL's fault, it's not SIL's responsibility, it's not DIL's responsibility.

And, at the end of the day, remember this: this is the son YOU AND YOUR SPOUSE RAISED. This is YOUR brother. This is YOUR family dynamic, and you can address it WITH HIM with *direct communication.*

This. The number of threads complaining about stuff some poor sister in law isn't doing when it's really the brother 's responsibility!

My ILs get nothing - no gifts, phone calls, Christmas cards, Mother's Day cards etc... and no visits.
I plan vacations and trips to see my family. DH talks the talk about visiting his family but never walks the walk, so we never go. I don't feel at all bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Real men take responsibility for roasting the dead critter at feast time. You get yourself some manly gear like an electric smoker or a turkey fryer and keep the women-folk away from this crucial man task. Anyone who cooks should be given relief from dishes, so it's a win-win.

Just learn to let your control-freak fears fade away, and let your hubby do whatever crazy recipe he wants to follow for his roasting.

Blech. "Real men"? "Manly gear"? "Women-folk"? "HUBBY"?!?!

I think you missed the humor gene.

Anonymous wrote:OP...you didn't get the memo. Women are the planners whether we want to be or not. We take on the psychic energy of the family and have to remember everything. Men can handle assignments, but they can't handle the planning of everything. God knows how/why they run most corporations.

Ah, yes, female baseline entitlement once again. So many women are willing to negotiate who does things, when things are done, and even (sometimes) how things are done, but refuse to engage on the fundamental question of what has to be done, because that issue is non-negotiable.

I agree with you, OP.

But my SIL is still awful. My brother is an awful, angry asshole, but after going through a long period of being there for and helping my SIL (relatively independent from my brother), she is still a terribly selfish person.

What you say is fair, but there are some SIL's who brush off their own, independent crappy behavior as "just deal with it with your brother." Grownups are responsible for themselves. Brother, dad, sister, mom, BIL, SIL, MIL, or FIL.

Anonymous wrote:Real men take responsibility for roasting the dead critter at feast time. You get yourself some manly gear like an electric smoker or a turkey fryer and keep the women-folk away from this crucial man task. Anyone who cooks should be given relief from dishes, so it's a win-win.

Just learn to let your control-freak fears fade away, and let your hubby do whatever crazy recipe he wants to follow for his roasting.

Blech. "Real men"? "Manly gear"? "Women-folk"? "HUBBY"?!?!

Real men take responsibility for roasting the dead critter at feast time. You get yourself some manly gear like an electric smoker or a turkey fryer and keep the women-folk away from this crucial man task. Anyone who cooks should be given relief from dishes, so it's a win-win.

Just learn to let your control-freak fears fade away, and let your hubby do whatever crazy recipe he wants to follow for his roasting.