14:35 again: I"m a fast and avid reader. I read about 3 books a week. All fiction, largely crap, but still, books. (well, 2 crap, one good so i can actually talk about what I"M reading. Right now I"m reading a visit from the goon squad, the interior by Lisa See and a YA book by Richelle Mead. I have no idea why that writer hooked me, but she did.

I"d just like to share that I'm a horrible speller. I know this about myself and I just concentrate on my writing more. One upside of my spelling inability is that I have a rather large vocabulary so that when I can't spell a word, I can choose another. To make that happen, I often have to vary my sentence structure too.

FWIW: I have a doctoral degree, professional job that requires a lot of writing and just got a paper accepted to a peer-reviewed journal, to be published in May and finally, NPR cited one of my blog posts in a story last year.

I won't say spelling doesn't matter but it's a surmountable disability.

Anonymous wrote:No specific advice, but one of the smartest guys I know was/is a HORRIBLE speller. He's still a double Ivy grad, clerked for a big name judge, all around intelligent person. Another bad speller I know is a chemistry PhD and amazing writer.

I don't know what causes bad spelling but in my anecdotal experience spelling isn't an indicator of smarts or predictor of life success or anything.

Yep. My DH can't spell to save his life. He is always chiming out to me when he's on the computer...'how do you spell...?". Genius. Speaks 3 languages fluently (2 acquired in his teens/20s), perfect SAT scores in the late 80s (when that meant something).

My older son (10) also has trouble with spelling. It does not have much correlation to intelligence. Son is very, very smart like his dad with photographic memory.

Spelling was always my strong suit.

It's called dysgraphia. Unfortunately, it is relatively rare so there are not many programs designed to help with it. Some of the tools for dsylexia help, but dysgraphia and dsylexia are different things.

OP, you can absolutely help your daughter be a better speller.

Buy these two workbooks:

http://shopabcdrp.com/content/student-workbook-b1-0

and

http://shopabcdrp.com/content/student-workbook-b2-0

The introduce a new sound in each chapter, and the many different ways to spell it.

For example, the first unit introduces the "long o" sound and the spellings, o, oa, ow, ought, oe and o-e

Each week have your daughter do the word sort at the start and then the activities that follow. As she is an advanced reader, reading the words will of course be a piece of cake for her. But then have her spell the words. Keep the possible spellings up for her to look at (the o, oe, o-e, ough, ow, etc) but have her spell the words on her own.

At the end of each uint are 10 sentences with words with those sounds, and sound learned preciously. Dictate those 10 sentences to her until she can spell all the words in it correctly.

You could probably do a lesson every day since she's such a strong reader. When you hit workbook B2, they introduce 2 syllable words which is probably where your daughter's spelling really breaks down. Continue dictating and having her spell the words. Don't ever refer to the letter name of a word, but to the sounds in the word.

Anonymous wrote:DD, 9 YO, is an advanced reader--reading several grades ahead, off the charts Map-R scores, etc. She is also an excellent writer--content-wise, that is. But her spelling is atrocious! I don't mean she can't spell harder words. I mean it is truly horrible: she still spells everything the way it sounds, and can't spell even simple words with any degree of accuracy. This is baffling to me, because I always thought that spelling comes with reading--but clearly it doesn't! It doesn't help that we're in MCPS where they have done away with spelling tests and with teaching spelling. I've talked to the teacher but she always just says not to worry, that it will come with time, and that there's no issue since her reading and writing are so good. It doesn't really seem to be improving with time, though.

Yes, I know that with spell-check, this problem won't be a major impediment in life for her,and I'm glad of that, but the discrepancy is so extreme between the content of her reading/writing and her ability to spell, that I almost wonder if this is some kind of disorder. Has anyone else dealt with this? Any advice welcome. TIA.

My husband is extremely intelligent and can talk the talk with the best of them but he can not spell to save his life. He was gifted thru school and one teacher told his mom that his mind moves so fast that he just doesn't care how it comes out on paper for others to see. He needs to move on, there is no slowing him down. That is what spell check is for.

I was always a phenomenal reader but a poor speller. It's gotten better with time, but only because I learned to focus more on the words I was spelling incorrectly. I still have issues with certain letter combinations and vowels, but I've mostly solved the problem as an adult.

FWIW, I think my spelling issues had something to do with the way I took in the words as I read as a child. I always read VERY quickly -- probably more whole-word from the start. Thinking back, my eyes skimmed over the words fast enough to understand them and to retain the concepts (and even to read them aloud when we were doing that) but not long enough to imprint the spelling in my memory. For me, reading for spelling required a different type of "seeing" than reading for content. And I never wanted to slow down enough to do it.

In addition, I have always had a poor memory for details out of context. So memorizing spelling (and rote foreign language vocabulary) was always more challenging that I expected. It's just not the way my memory works. Unless I could attach spelling to something conceptual, it went in one ear and out the other.

Meanwhile, my DD is completely different. She's also a very fast, whole-word reader. But her memory works quite differently. She picks up all the details and retains them. I'm in awe sometimes. She can look at a list of spelling words and will just KNOW and RETAIN them after that. Lucky her!

I don't know if the issues in here apply to your daughter but you should read this anyway. It's a great, funny, smart article by a man who makes his living as a writer but spells horribly.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27074-2005Feb15.html

Anonymous wrote:It's difficult to pinpoint the source of your child's spelling challenges without seeing work samples, but this much is clear: if reading is advanced, then the child knows the phonemic sounds.

The question is, when encoding (spelling), why does she consistently choose the wrong representation of the sound? Logic dictates that a strong reader is familiar with words and their appropriate spelling (including homophones) because the reader is able to consistently connect context with visual cues to correctly decode (read) and comprehend the word(s) in question. So...why does your child fail to consistently apply contextual and visual cues when attempting to write the same words she reads?

Again, this is an educated guess (not having observed writing behaviors and work samples), but I would suggest the following:
--There are 44 phonemes in the english language. Google it, and make sure your child knows ALL of them.
--Each developing speller needs a strategy to use when she comes across a word she does not know how to spell. Teach the 6 syllable types (open, closed, r-controlled, vowel team, consonant-'le', silent 'e') and stress syllibication (an extension of "chunking").
--Stress accountability. At a certain point, it is no longer acceptable to guess. The child must recall all that she has learned and all she knows from visually recognizing words (i.e. reading) in order to take their best shot at the correct spelling.

That is not necessarily true. It is not unusual for people with dyslexia or dysgraphia to be advanced readers by amassing a huge inventory of sight words. As long as it is in context the meaning is easily understood.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In English, spelling is largely a matter of memorization. Memorization and intelligence are not the same thing.

Are you sure? Memorization does not equal intelligence? Off to research because I have a nearly photographic memory for words (hello, two-time spelling bee champ). Huge word nerd and my ability to memorize letter patterns extends to surnames.

My brother is truly the most intelligent person I know; terminal degree, lecturer, prolific writer, published author, frequent subject matter expert and public speaker. His spelling is atrocious! He has very talented editors.

NP. Memorization is not the same thing as photographic memory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In English, spelling is largely a matter of memorization. Memorization and intelligence are not the same thing.

Are you sure? Memorization does not equal intelligence? Off to research because I have a nearly photographic memory for words (hello, two-time spelling bee champ). Huge word nerd and my ability to memorize letter patterns extends to surnames.

My brother is truly the most intelligent person I know; terminal degree, lecturer, prolific writer, published author, frequent subject matter expert and public speaker. His spelling is atrocious! He has very talented editors.

Some people can see the word in their head and memorize it. Many can't, especially dyslexic people (because the word appears differently in their head sometimes). Believe it or not there are rules around spelling and dyslexic people are taught all the rules but still their spelling will always be labored.

This. My DS says he knows how to spell the word, but his hand writes it wrong. He does better when he types and he knows the word is wrong when he reads it. But, he cannot remember the spelling rules or which sounds (mainly vowels and blends) go with which letters.

My 9 y/o DS is the same way. He's bright and capable in every subject, but he cannot spell. He spells simple, common words differently every time he writes them. Basically, how he thinks they sound. We've had interventions since 2nd grade, and he hasn't really improved much. Now, he's beginning to type his written assignments and learning to use spell check, Grammarly, and other resources. We've discussed testing but the school seems to think it isn't worthwhile since he is dong fine in all other subjects and is reading above grade level. I guess it's just something he will have to learn to compensate for as he grows up. Luckily, kids these days have a lot more resources than we did. Spell check will be his best defense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In English, spelling is largely a matter of memorization. Memorization and intelligence are not the same thing.

Are you sure? Memorization does not equal intelligence? Off to research because I have a nearly photographic memory for words (hello, two-time spelling bee champ). Huge word nerd and my ability to memorize letter patterns extends to surnames.

My brother is truly the most intelligent person I know; terminal degree, lecturer, prolific writer, published author, frequent subject matter expert and public speaker. His spelling is atrocious! He has very talented editors.

Some people can see the word in their head and memorize it. Many can't, especially dyslexic people (because the word appears differently in their head sometimes). Believe it or not there are rules around spelling and dyslexic people are taught all the rules but still their spelling will always be labored.

You should check to see if she is dyslexic.

Anonymous wrote:In English, spelling is largely a matter of memorization. Memorization and intelligence are not the same thing.

Are you sure? Memorization does not equal intelligence? Off to research because I have a nearly photographic memory for words (hello, two-time spelling bee champ). Huge word nerd and my ability to memorize letter patterns extends to surnames.

My brother is truly the most intelligent person I know; terminal degree, lecturer, prolific writer, published author, frequent subject matter expert and public speaker. His spelling is atrocious! He has very talented editors.