Anonymous
Post 04/12/2016 07:56     Subject: This bothers me..
Tell me one well known alumni in science or math from TJ.. Based on being number on school in USA, atleast on average there should be 2-3/year..


Like other Ivy League colleges that are top schools in the country, which produce top undergrads every year, why I don't hear anything from people who did their schooling from TJ over last 20-30 years ?

So much for top facilities/labs. Total waste of funds...
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2016 07:31     Subject: This bothers me..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP - what is your base school. If you are so concerned about getting into Ivys and the bloated reputation of TJ, then you must know your base school's general college acceptances. Does it even compare?


A rough back-of-the-envelope figurin...

Assume the approx. 12500 seniors in Fairfax County Schools are ranked by your favorite SPR (Smarty Pants Ranking)

Assume 1/6 of TJ students are not from Fairfax County, so approx. 375 seniors at TJ are from Fairfax County.

Assume all TJ kids from Fairfax County are from the top 10% of the ranked students, i.e. from the top 1250 ranked students.

That leaves 825 top 10% senior students for the other 21 Fairfax County high schools, or 39 per school.

So on average, each HS has around 1/10 the number of top 10% students as TJ, so if TJ has 10 MIT admits, each other FFX hs would have at most 1. But I would guess the TJ strips out almost all of the top STEM students with the ability and ambition to get into MIT, so an MIT admit from a base school would be rare.


Nice figurin', PP! Still don't understand what OP is saying about TJ being "just any other high school".


You have the same (or worse) teaching compared with any other school in the county. But, they have on average, the brightest kids. Those kids would be equally bright at there base schools. The peer group would not be as good there. Where it gets interesting is TJ has critical mass to have far more advanced opportunities than any other school in the region. Unfortunately, that is not why many people go to TJ; they go because it looks good to go to the best.

TJ is now dominated by students from families that would view failure to be at the top as an indicator of failure. They grew up in cultures where resources were extremely limited and their society could only afford to educate the top 1-5%. In the US, we educate every one. While in other societies, there are many exits from the path to success -- many gate ways where people are winnowed out, in the US, everyone has the opportunity (in theory). Anyone can go to a community college and do well, transfer to a top state school, and then the sky is the limit. This is why America is great.

TJ was initially built for the brilliant child that was underperforming in high school because they were bored. Like the STEM oriented kid who went on to be an internationally known physicist, but had a 2.3 GPA in HS because he was not challenged: why do the Homework when you know the answers?

The over-achievers co-opted TJ so the true genius -- the Albert Einsteins (who underachieved in HS) could not be admitted.


Yes, agree with above. But, also have to add that the curriculum at TJ is unparalled to any high school. When you have bright kids matched with opportunities & resources = sky is the limit.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2016 07:22     Subject: Re:This bothers me..
Anonymous wrote:You are simply making things up when you claim TJ was built to challenge bored under-performers. It wasn't. It was built for two reasons. First, the county politicians at the time - largely Republicans - wanted a "tech" school that would reinforce the message that Fairfax County was open for business for any company willing to relocate to office parks in Chantilly, Reston and Tysons. Second, FCPS had excess capacity in eastern Fairfax, so it was either going to close one of Annandale, Jefferson or Stuart, or open a magnet there. At the time, FCPS was still overwhelmingly white, so there was no expectation that Asians already familiar with cut-throat admissions to secondary schools would flock there and dominate the school. But they did, so depending on the day of the week FCPS is either proud of having the top high school in the country or embarrassed that its flagship school has demographics that look nothing like the county in which it is located.


I was there when it was approved; I spoke before the school board. I was questioned on the lack of challenges; how one one day, my Algebra II teacher called home to 1) report that I was underperforming in class because of missed homework assignments (got A's on the test), and at the same time I scored the highest in the school on a math assessment, and I was going to be invited to go to states....How the curriculum was crushing my enthusiasm for science.

When include HW on the grade, you punish the truly brilliant kids. For me, it was just busy work. I would do the work until I understood the process. But, when 25% of your grade is homework, then 100% on tests and 0 on homework gives a C. That is how I got a C in Algebra II-Trig.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2016 07:04     Subject: Re:This bothers me..
You are simply making things up when you claim TJ was built to challenge bored under-performers. It wasn't. It was built for two reasons. First, the county politicians at the time - largely Republicans - wanted a "tech" school that would reinforce the message that Fairfax County was open for business for any company willing to relocate to office parks in Chantilly, Reston and Tysons. Second, FCPS had excess capacity in eastern Fairfax, so it was either going to close one of Annandale, Jefferson or Stuart, or open a magnet there. At the time, FCPS was still overwhelmingly white, so there was no expectation that Asians already familiar with cut-throat admissions to secondary schools would flock there and dominate the school. But they did, so depending on the day of the week FCPS is either proud of having the top high school in the country or embarrassed that its flagship school has demographics that look nothing like the county in which it is located.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2016 06:59     Subject: This bothers me..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP - what is your base school. If you are so concerned about getting into Ivys and the bloated reputation of TJ, then you must know your base school's general college acceptances. Does it even compare?


A rough back-of-the-envelope figurin...

Assume the approx. 12500 seniors in Fairfax County Schools are ranked by your favorite SPR (Smarty Pants Ranking)

Assume 1/6 of TJ students are not from Fairfax County, so approx. 375 seniors at TJ are from Fairfax County.

Assume all TJ kids from Fairfax County are from the top 10% of the ranked students, i.e. from the top 1250 ranked students.

That leaves 825 top 10% senior students for the other 21 Fairfax County high schools, or 39 per school.

So on average, each HS has around 1/10 the number of top 10% students as TJ, so if TJ has 10 MIT admits, each other FFX hs would have at most 1. But I would guess the TJ strips out almost all of the top STEM students with the ability and ambition to get into MIT, so an MIT admit from a base school would be rare.


Nice figurin', PP! Still don't understand what OP is saying about TJ being "just any other high school".


You have the same (or worse) teaching compared with any other school in the county. But, they have on average, the brightest kids. Those kids would be equally bright at there base schools. The peer group would not be as good there. Where it gets interesting is TJ has critical mass to have far more advanced opportunities than any other school in the region. Unfortunately, that is not why many people go to TJ; they go because it looks good to go to the best.

TJ is now dominated by students from families that would view failure to be at the top as an indicator of failure. They grew up in cultures where resources were extremely limited and their society could only afford to educate the top 1-5%. In the US, we educate every one. While in other societies, there are many exits from the path to success -- many gate ways where people are winnowed out, in the US, everyone has the opportunity (in theory). Anyone can go to a community college and do well, transfer to a top state school, and then the sky is the limit. This is why America is great.

TJ was initially built for the brilliant child that was underperforming in high school because they were bored. Like the STEM oriented kid who went on to be an internationally known physicist, but had a 2.3 GPA in HS because he was not challenged: why do the Homework when you know the answers?

The over-achievers co-opted TJ so the true genius -- the Albert Einsteins (who underachieved in HS) could not be admitted.


This is sad, but true. FCPS admin was also complicit in this by becoming so enamored with having a top U.S. high school that they forgot why it was created in the first place. Sort of like the former gifted program has become the AAP and rewards pushiness and achievement over true learning.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2016 06:57     Subject: This bothers me..
Sorry - typo - that's 1985 for TJ admissions testing ...
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2016 06:55     Subject: This bothers me..
Since 1995, admission to TJ has been based on testing and grades. It's not been a place for middle school C students since at least then. Assuming the hypothetical Einstein wasn't too bored to work yet at that age, and demonstrated that ability in school and on the admissions test, he would have a chance to get into TJ. As to the types of students there, any assumption that they generally aren't productive or lack capacity to become top scientists is ridiculous (and not supported by the college admissions information this discussion started with).
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2016 06:15     Subject: This bothers me..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP - what is your base school. If you are so concerned about getting into Ivys and the bloated reputation of TJ, then you must know your base school's general college acceptances. Does it even compare?


A rough back-of-the-envelope figurin...

Assume the approx. 12500 seniors in Fairfax County Schools are ranked by your favorite SPR (Smarty Pants Ranking)

Assume 1/6 of TJ students are not from Fairfax County, so approx. 375 seniors at TJ are from Fairfax County.

Assume all TJ kids from Fairfax County are from the top 10% of the ranked students, i.e. from the top 1250 ranked students.

That leaves 825 top 10% senior students for the other 21 Fairfax County high schools, or 39 per school.

So on average, each HS has around 1/10 the number of top 10% students as TJ, so if TJ has 10 MIT admits, each other FFX hs would have at most 1. But I would guess the TJ strips out almost all of the top STEM students with the ability and ambition to get into MIT, so an MIT admit from a base school would be rare.


Nice figurin', PP! Still don't understand what OP is saying about TJ being "just any other high school".


You have the same (or worse) teaching compared with any other school in the county. But, they have on average, the brightest kids. Those kids would be equally bright at there base schools. The peer group would not be as good there. Where it gets interesting is TJ has critical mass to have far more advanced opportunities than any other school in the region. Unfortunately, that is not why many people go to TJ; they go because it looks good to go to the best.

TJ is now dominated by students from families that would view failure to be at the top as an indicator of failure. They grew up in cultures where resources were extremely limited and their society could only afford to educate the top 1-5%. In the US, we educate every one. While in other societies, there are many exits from the path to success -- many gate ways where people are winnowed out, in the US, everyone has the opportunity (in theory). Anyone can go to a community college and do well, transfer to a top state school, and then the sky is the limit. This is why America is great.

TJ was initially built for the brilliant child that was underperforming in high school because they were bored. Like the STEM oriented kid who went on to be an internationally known physicist, but had a 2.3 GPA in HS because he was not challenged: why do the Homework when you know the answers?

The over-achievers co-opted TJ so the true genius -- the Albert Einsteins (who underachieved in HS) could not be admitted.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2016 20:45     Subject: This bothers me..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP - what is your base school. If you are so concerned about getting into Ivys and the bloated reputation of TJ, then you must know your base school's general college acceptances. Does it even compare?


A rough back-of-the-envelope figurin...

Assume the approx. 12500 seniors in Fairfax County Schools are ranked by your favorite SPR (Smarty Pants Ranking)

Assume 1/6 of TJ students are not from Fairfax County, so approx. 375 seniors at TJ are from Fairfax County.

Assume all TJ kids from Fairfax County are from the top 10% of the ranked students, i.e. from the top 1250 ranked students.

That leaves 825 top 10% senior students for the other 21 Fairfax County high schools, or 39 per school.

So on average, each HS has around 1/10 the number of top 10% students as TJ, so if TJ has 10 MIT admits, each other FFX hs would have at most 1. But I would guess the TJ strips out almost all of the top STEM students with the ability and ambition to get into MIT, so an MIT admit from a base school would be rare.


Nice figurin', PP! Still don't understand what OP is saying about TJ being "just any other high school".
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2016 20:27     Subject: This bothers me..
Anonymous wrote:OP - what is your base school. If you are so concerned about getting into Ivys and the bloated reputation of TJ, then you must know your base school's general college acceptances. Does it even compare?


A rough back-of-the-envelope figurin...

Assume the approx. 12500 seniors in Fairfax County Schools are ranked by your favorite SPR (Smarty Pants Ranking)

Assume 1/6 of TJ students are not from Fairfax County, so approx. 375 seniors at TJ are from Fairfax County.

Assume all TJ kids from Fairfax County are from the top 10% of the ranked students, i.e. from the top 1250 ranked students.

That leaves 825 top 10% senior students for the other 21 Fairfax County high schools, or 39 per school.

So on average, each HS has around 1/10 the number of top 10% students as TJ, so if TJ has 10 MIT admits, each other FFX hs would have at most 1. But I would guess the TJ strips out almost all of the top STEM students with the ability and ambition to get into MIT, so an MIT admit from a base school would be rare.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2016 20:27     Subject: Re:This bothers me..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Weird that it bothers you. My kid is not going to TJ for college reasons. She is going to TJ because she loves math and science and wants to be surrounded by hard-working, academic minded peers.

We couldn't afford out of state and are not interested in her burdening herself with loans for that. Out in-state schools are great.

College has gotten prohibitively expensive and people aren't going to really apply where they cannot afford to pay.


NP here. IMO this should be the only reason a kid chooses to go to TJ. As a magnet school it was designed for students who want to go deeply into math and science and care more about learning for learning's sake. Amassing a really good resume for college can be and sometimes is a side benefit, but this shouldn't be the main reason a kid chooses to go there.


You must be on drugs.. More than half of asians(indians and chinese students) are forced by parents, prepped, to boost their egos to get into TJ.. Nothing to do with science or math.

I can say probably 200 or so out of 480 could be serious math and science fanatics..
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2016 20:26     Subject: This bothers me..
Each high school keeps their own data. But, I've never seen it published for public consumption.
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2016 20:21     Subject: This bothers me..
Anonymous wrote:And here's where they went:

http://thebullelephant.com/college-destinations-for-tjhsst-class-of-2015/



Is it possible to know about other high schools in FCPS ? do high school students have access to similar statistics, so, they can know what to expect realistically.. Where do other students in FCPS high schools generally go to or get accepted ?
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2016 20:19     Subject: This bothers me..
Anonymous wrote:And here's where they went:

http://thebullelephant.com/college-destinations-for-tjhsst-class-of-2015/



Wow. 6 to Stanford, 8 to U. Chicago, 8 to MIT -- Wonder what other school in this region comes close to matching that?
Anonymous
Post 04/11/2016 20:04     Subject: This bothers me..
And here's where they went:

http://thebullelephant.com/college-destinations-for-tjhsst-class-of-2015/