Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:43
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
I'm not the pps. But the article provides no evidence to support the claim. Its anecdotal.
Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:38
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should not go to the expense until we have data to support the claims. They are good playing surfaces. My kids play and I coach.
hopefully your kids aren't soccer goalies
http://www.ehhi.org/turf/cancer_patterns_1114.shtml
There is not a single fact in the article you linked to.
Well, that's wrong. The info in the EPA chart is factual.
You're right.
There's not a single relevant fact in the article.
Is that better?
No, because you keep swinging and missing. The article quotes data from the EPA chart. So the article, ergo, contains some facts. Keep trying, though. If you are going to play the do-the-science-card and actually do it well, you have to be extra attentive.
How is the EPA chart relevant to the claim that crumb rubber causes cancer?
The assertion was that there's not a single fact in the article. The assertion was demonstrably wrong.
I amended my assertion to say there wasn't a single relevant fact. You still haven't told me what was relevant about the EPA chart.
Amendments don't count.
Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:36
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I prefer what Bethesda is doing: Before getting all worked up, test the fields for the detectable presence of toxins.
http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/Web-2016/Council-Members-Call-on-County-to-Test-Artificial-Turf-Fields-for-Toxic-Substances/
Science works.
Science might not have all the answers at this point.
Yeah, but ignorance and superstition have a spotty track record with the answers they give.
Are you a crumb rubber lobbyist? Or do you feel qualified to speak on this because you got a B minus in an Earth Science class?
Not a lobbyist. Someone who believes in making decisions based on the scientific method. Statements like "Science might not have all the answers" drive me crazy. Sure, there's a lot of stuff we don't know. But what's left? Making decisions based on some combination of our fears, hopes, prejudices and wishes? Going on "gut," like Sarah Palin?
There's a lot of fear-mongering around crumb rubber. In particular, the goalie "study" (it's not really a study but a collection of anecdotes) suffers from small sample size. As my statistics professor said, unusual things happen every day.
Synthetic fields are incredibly useful because you just get so much more playing time. The introduction of crumb rubber a decade or so ago revolutionized them, because it made them much safer in terms of injuries to the joints and from falls. So it wouldn't be cost-free to get rid of them.
But they're not perfect. When they were introduced one of the selling points was you could use them 365 days a year. Now the manufacturers are saying not to use them on the hottest days, they get too hot to be safe. That is a finding that is backed up by science.
Reading comprehension matters. Hence the words "at this point." More analysis would be welcome. One huge cost, potentially, will be huge jury verdicts against counties, leagues, and coaches. Intuitively, something seems off about these fields. But if science persuades that that is not the case, then that is that.
You lost me. Are you backing science or intuition?
Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:33
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should not go to the expense until we have data to support the claims. They are good playing surfaces. My kids play and I coach.
hopefully your kids aren't soccer goalies
http://www.ehhi.org/turf/cancer_patterns_1114.shtml
There is not a single fact in the article you linked to.
Well, that's wrong. The info in the EPA chart is factual.
You're right.
There's not a single relevant fact in the article.
Is that better?
No, because you keep swinging and missing. The article quotes data from the EPA chart. So the article, ergo, contains some facts. Keep trying, though. If you are going to play the do-the-science-card and actually do it well, you have to be extra attentive.
How is the EPA chart relevant to the claim that crumb rubber causes cancer?
The assertion was that there's not a single fact in the article. The assertion was demonstrably wrong.
I amended my assertion to say there wasn't a single relevant fact. You still haven't told me what was relevant about the EPA chart.
Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:24
Subject: Re:Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Two prominent Democratic senators believe that studies have not been comprehensive enough, and three prominent federal agencies will be further analyzing the issue in agreement. The synthetic turf council (who knew such a thing existed?) has a different view. So this isn't a Palin situation.
Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:16
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should not go to the expense until we have data to support the claims. They are good playing surfaces. My kids play and I coach.
hopefully your kids aren't soccer goalies
http://www.ehhi.org/turf/cancer_patterns_1114.shtml
There is not a single fact in the article you linked to.
Well, that's wrong. The info in the EPA chart is factual.
You're right.
There's not a single relevant fact in the article.
Is that better?
No, because you keep swinging and missing. The article quotes data from the EPA chart. So the article, ergo, contains some facts. Keep trying, though. If you are going to play the do-the-science-card and actually do it well, you have to be extra attentive.
How is the EPA chart relevant to the claim that crumb rubber causes cancer?
The assertion was that there's not a single fact in the article. The assertion was demonstrably wrong.
Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:14
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I prefer what Bethesda is doing: Before getting all worked up, test the fields for the detectable presence of toxins.
http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/Web-2016/Council-Members-Call-on-County-to-Test-Artificial-Turf-Fields-for-Toxic-Substances/
Science works.
Science might not have all the answers at this point.
Yeah, but ignorance and superstition have a spotty track record with the answers they give.
Are you a crumb rubber lobbyist? Or do you feel qualified to speak on this because you got a B minus in an Earth Science class?
Not a lobbyist. Someone who believes in making decisions based on the scientific method. Statements like "Science might not have all the answers" drive me crazy. Sure, there's a lot of stuff we don't know. But what's left? Making decisions based on some combination of our fears, hopes, prejudices and wishes? Going on "gut," like Sarah Palin?
There's a lot of fear-mongering around crumb rubber. In particular, the goalie "study" (it's not really a study but a collection of anecdotes) suffers from small sample size. As my statistics professor said, unusual things happen every day.
Synthetic fields are incredibly useful because you just get so much more playing time. The introduction of crumb rubber a decade or so ago revolutionized them, because it made them much safer in terms of injuries to the joints and from falls. So it wouldn't be cost-free to get rid of them.
But they're not perfect. When they were introduced one of the selling points was you could use them 365 days a year. Now the manufacturers are saying not to use them on the hottest days, they get too hot to be safe. That is a finding that is backed up by science.
Reading comprehension matters. Hence the words "at this point." More analysis would be welcome. One huge cost, potentially, will be huge jury verdicts against counties, leagues, and coaches. Intuitively, something seems off about these fields. But if science persuades that that is not the case, then that is that.
Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:14
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I prefer what Bethesda is doing: Before getting all worked up, test the fields for the detectable presence of toxins.
http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/Web-2016/Council-Members-Call-on-County-to-Test-Artificial-Turf-Fields-for-Toxic-Substances/
Science works.
Science might not have all the answers at this point.
You could say that about rubber automobile tires or exhaust. But you haven't given up your car yet, have you?
To take this point further:
If you've ever bought tires, when you buy them the tread is about an inch thick. When it's time to buy a new set, the tread is about an eighth of an inch thick. Where did all that rubber go? It got ground off by the tires rubbing on the road. It came off as a fine black dust. Wherever you go in you're car you're trailing a cloud of fine black tire dust, and so is everyone else, and we're all breathing it, swallowing it, getting it on our skin and in our eyes and ears, all the time.
Guess what: that tire dust is exactly the same substance as the crumb rubber used on athletic fields, just smaller pieces. I won't go so far as to say it's harmless, but if it were acutely toxic we'd all be dead.
Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:08
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should not go to the expense until we have data to support the claims. They are good playing surfaces. My kids play and I coach.
hopefully your kids aren't soccer goalies
http://www.ehhi.org/turf/cancer_patterns_1114.shtml
There is not a single fact in the article you linked to.
Well, that's wrong. The info in the EPA chart is factual.
You're right.
There's not a single relevant fact in the article.
Is that better?
No, because you keep swinging and missing. The article quotes data from the EPA chart. So the article, ergo, contains some facts. Keep trying, though. If you are going to play the do-the-science-card and actually do it well, you have to be extra attentive.
How is the EPA chart relevant to the claim that crumb rubber causes cancer?
Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:06
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should not go to the expense until we have data to support the claims. They are good playing surfaces. My kids play and I coach.
hopefully your kids aren't soccer goalies
http://www.ehhi.org/turf/cancer_patterns_1114.shtml
There is not a single fact in the article you linked to.
Well, that's wrong. The info in the EPA chart is factual.
You're right.
There's not a single relevant fact in the article.
Is that better?
No, because you keep swinging and missing. The article quotes data from the EPA chart. So the article, ergo, contains some facts. Keep trying, though. If you are going to play the do-the-science-card and actually do it well, you have to be extra attentive.
Anonymous
04/04/2016 20:00
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I prefer what Bethesda is doing: Before getting all worked up, test the fields for the detectable presence of toxins.
http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/Web-2016/Council-Members-Call-on-County-to-Test-Artificial-Turf-Fields-for-Toxic-Substances/
Science works.
Science might not have all the answers at this point.
You could say that about rubber automobile tires or exhaust. But you haven't given up your car yet, have you?
Anonymous
04/04/2016 19:59
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should not go to the expense until we have data to support the claims. They are good playing surfaces. My kids play and I coach.
hopefully your kids aren't soccer goalies
http://www.ehhi.org/turf/cancer_patterns_1114.shtml
One is. And I am aware of this, but there is really no study about this. People have reported clusters of cancer for decades. Most of them turn out to be statistically insignificant.
Anonymous
04/04/2016 19:44
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I prefer what Bethesda is doing: Before getting all worked up, test the fields for the detectable presence of toxins.
http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/Web-2016/Council-Members-Call-on-County-to-Test-Artificial-Turf-Fields-for-Toxic-Substances/
Science works.
Science might not have all the answers at this point.
Yeah, but ignorance and superstition have a spotty track record with the answers they give.
Are you a crumb rubber lobbyist? Or do you feel qualified to speak on this because you got a B minus in an Earth Science class?
Not a lobbyist. Someone who believes in making decisions based on the scientific method. Statements like "Science might not have all the answers" drive me crazy. Sure, there's a lot of stuff we don't know. But what's left? Making decisions based on some combination of our fears, hopes, prejudices and wishes? Going on "gut," like Sarah Palin?
There's a lot of fear-mongering around crumb rubber. In particular, the goalie "study" (it's not really a study but a collection of anecdotes) suffers from small sample size. As my statistics professor said, unusual things happen every day.
Synthetic fields are incredibly useful because you just get so much more playing time. The introduction of crumb rubber a decade or so ago revolutionized them, because it made them much safer in terms of injuries to the joints and from falls. So it wouldn't be cost-free to get rid of them.
But they're not perfect. When they were introduced one of the selling points was you could use them 365 days a year. Now the manufacturers are saying not to use them on the hottest days, they get too hot to be safe. That is a finding that is backed up by science.
Anonymous
04/04/2016 19:22
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I prefer what Bethesda is doing: Before getting all worked up, test the fields for the detectable presence of toxins.
http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Beat/Web-2016/Council-Members-Call-on-County-to-Test-Artificial-Turf-Fields-for-Toxic-Substances/
Science works.
Science might not have all the answers at this point.
Yeah, but ignorance and superstition have a spotty track record with the answers they give.
Are you a crumb rubber lobbyist? Or do you feel qualified to speak on this because you got a B minus in an Earth Science class?
Anonymous
04/04/2016 19:16
Subject: Petition to Arlington County to Ban use of crumb rubber on fields
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They should not go to the expense until we have data to support the claims. They are good playing surfaces. My kids play and I coach.
hopefully your kids aren't soccer goalies
http://www.ehhi.org/turf/cancer_patterns_1114.shtml
There is not a single fact in the article you linked to.
Well, that's wrong. The info in the EPA chart is factual.
You're right.
There's not a single relevant fact in the article.
Is that better?