Anonymous wrote:If your pension qualifies under a ERISA plan then the court will likely order a QDRO. It's a order to take his portion of the pension in one lump sum. Since he also has a pension I doubt you would have to pay him much. I don't know what his lawyer told him, but I think he's dreaming. His plan won't happen, and yes he is still accountable for his portion of the marital home and child support. fyi Child support doesn't end at 18, it ends after high school. If you guys lived in DC he could be forced to pay a portion of your child's college expenses. Not so in MD.

Have you called you lawyer about this? This guy sounds like a real creep who apparently doesn't think much of his own child. Does your daughter know daddy dearest hasn't paid anything in 6 mo?

Yeap! this is a suggestion to use the child as a pawn. Put them in the middle... alienate the father. This is so incredibly wrong to suggest to the OP. All the mothers out here to shout welfare of the child and then go on to inflict emotional cruelty on them should be ashamed.

If your pension qualifies under a ERISA plan then the court will likely order a QDRO. It's a order to take his portion of the pension in one lump sum. Since he also has a pension I doubt you would have to pay him much. I don't know what his lawyer told him, but I think he's dreaming. His plan won't happen, and yes he is still accountable for his portion of the marital home and child support. fyi Child support doesn't end at 18, it ends after high school. If you guys lived in DC he could be forced to pay a portion of your child's college expenses. Not so in MD.

Have you called you lawyer about this? This guy sounds like a real creep who apparently doesn't think much of his own child. Does your daughter know daddy dearest hasn't paid anything in 6 mo?

OP here. Thanks for the perspective, everybody. My divorced friends didn't have kids or it wasn't this messy.

You're right: the pension is the big issue here, and I need to split the present value or nothing. The child support and mortgage rankle because he's effectively stolen tens of thousands of dollars from me, and I've only shown you the tip of the iceberg about what he's doing both in the negotiations and outside. But I'd definitely take splitting the current value of pensions if I can be rid of him forever.

To the PP who asked about college, we already have one kid in (an expensive) college and DS is headed there next year. Yes, XH's counter proposal did have a college plan. That's that my mother contribute $50k a year to the kids' colleges. You read that correctly, my mother. In a formal proposal via his lawyer who I can only guess has no ethics or pride. Needless to say I rejected that one and I'm trying to get a commitment in writing that he'll contribute his own money..

Anonymous wrote:You probably aren't going to get child support back before you filed especially if you're still married (technically.) There is almost zero chance you won't have to split the house unless you just purchased it. (Especially since it can also be seen as a "benefit" that you got to stay in it.) The pension might be different, I don't know. But since the dicorce sounds messy anyway, you can always throw everything at the wall and see what sticks since it sounds like you'll need a lawyer anyway. How much do you make a year?

OP you're being silly about the house. You're getting use and occupancy of the house presumably without paying rent for it right? Well, that's his share of the mortgage payment right there. If you don't like that arrangement, move out and rent the house and split the difference (over or under) on the rent as compared to the mortgage amount.

OP, I'm not a lawyer, just a divorced woman with some words of advice. In the end, the child support and the house are not going to be worth a big fight. You should each get half of what the house is worth. You need to figure out today's value do pensions and assets so you each end up with half. You don't wan to split payouts in the future is because you each want to be able to walk away. Also, I hope you two plan for your child's college. Kids with divorced parents can really have a hard time with finances and it's easier if it's in writing now.

You probably aren't going to get child support back before you filed especially if you're still married (technically.) There is almost zero chance you won't have to split the house unless you just purchased it. (Especially since it can also be seen as a "benefit" that you got to stay in it.) The pension might be different, I don't know. But since the dicorce sounds messy anyway, you can always throw everything at the wall and see what sticks since it sounds like you'll need a lawyer anyway. How much do you make a year?

OP again. I worry that many spouses don't realize how big the pension piece is relative to everything else. You might have to rely on your pension for 20-30 years. I did some back-of-the envelope calcs and saw that I'd be transferring over a hundred thousand to XH over my retirement, if I agreed to his plan to retire early and get me to subsidize it.

So we'll probably go to court over that. I was asking about child custody because that one is less clear to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the advice, everyone! He moved out a year ago and the mortgage is fairly high, so that 1/2 of that is over $10k and potentially worth going to court over. If I could win it....

Similarly, $1,500 in child support for the past 6 months, plus something less for the first 6 months when DS was tentatively trying to live with him, is also potentially worth over $10k. Again, if I could win it....

The pension thing.... Yes, he has one, but he wants to retire at 56, which means a huge cut to his monthly pension amount. He wants a pension-sharing arrangement where I give him 1/2 of my much larger pension because I'm planning to continue working. So I said no, I'm not going to finance your early retirement. We're at an impasse here.

So that's why I'm here! My lawyers can't offer certainty in the child support, mortgage, and pension issues if we go to court. I realize certainty doesn't exist! But I'm interested in others' experiences.

SInce you have a child about to turn 18, I am assuming you have been married at least 20 years? So you each have a stake in each of your pensions.

Don't you have to quit for your pension to start paying out now? Otherwise, he gets half of the value of your pension at the time of divorce AND you get half of his at the time of divorce. The value of your pension will increase at a rapid pace from here to your retirement and the increase should be all yours, so he will not get half of what starts coming when you retire. This is where you figure out how much his is worth now and how much yours is worth now and split the difference through other assets like 401k type vehicles or house value. If they are roughly equal today- it will be a wash and you will walk away with your and he will walk away with his cause that is easier all around.

Thanks so much for helping me think this through. Yes, we've been married 21 years, and we do have a stake in each other's pensions, at least the marital part. We both have traditional pensions, in addition to 401(k)s.

He's asking for the actual annuity payments from our traditional pensions to be split, on an if/when paid basis. Not to split the present value of the marital part of the pensions, which you describe, and which would indeed be fairer to me. My objection here is that most pensions, including his, give you a big cut to the annual/monthly amount if you take them before the regular retirement age of 62 or 65, whatever your plan specifies. Specifically, his pension payments are cut by 5% a year for every year below age 62, for a total cut of 30% to his pension if he takes it 6 years early. Meanwhile, because I plan to continue working, my annuity/annual benefit on an if/when paid basis continues to grow, and he wants 1/2 of the whole thing. So I get 1/2 of his much reduced annuity payment. And he gets 1/2 of my bigger pension annuity, and then I'm taking a bigger hit to my own pension to effectively subsidize his really early retirement. No thanks.... But he's dug in on this.

My lawyer is actually a lot cheaper than his. So possibly just the threat of court might make him see reason.

What's dismaying is that someone I was married to for 21 years is being so selfish and conniving (I'm sure he thought I wouldn't notice the pension angle, or realize that it's probably the biggest piece of the whole negotiations). Well, it's not a complete surprise, coming from him. At least I have full-on support from family and friends!

Does he realize that half of his pension belongs to you?

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the advice, everyone! He moved out a year ago and the mortgage is fairly high, so that 1/2 of that is over $10k and potentially worth going to court over. If I could win it....

Similarly, $1,500 in child support for the past 6 months, plus something less for the first 6 months when DS was tentatively trying to live with him, is also potentially worth over $10k. Again, if I could win it....

The pension thing.... Yes, he has one, but he wants to retire at 56, which means a huge cut to his monthly pension amount. He wants a pension-sharing arrangement where I give him 1/2 of my much larger pension because I'm planning to continue working. So I said no, I'm not going to finance your early retirement. We're at an impasse here.

So that's why I'm here! My lawyers can't offer certainty in the child support, mortgage, and pension issues if we go to court. I realize certainty doesn't exist! But I'm interested in others' experiences.

SInce you have a child about to turn 18, I am assuming you have been married at least 20 years? So you each have a stake in each of your pensions.

Don't you have to quit for your pension to start paying out now? Otherwise, he gets half of the value of your pension at the time of divorce AND you get half of his at the time of divorce. The value of your pension will increase at a rapid pace from here to your retirement and the increase should be all yours, so he will not get half of what starts coming when you retire. This is where you figure out how much his is worth now and how much yours is worth now and split the difference through other assets like 401k type vehicles or house value. If they are roughly equal today- it will be a wash and you will walk away with your and he will walk away with his cause that is easier all around.

OP, I just want to reiterate what others said about attorneys' fees. You will rack up a ton very quickly. We had less issues to fight about than you and it took next to no time to reach almost $50k in attorneys' fees. My child support went retroactive to the date of service of my court filing, which was only two days after filing. As to the house, my ex was ordered to pay half of the mortgage for a period of four years, unless I moved out. At the end of four years, the house was to be sold and proceeds split evenly. Over the years, our salaries were relatively equally. Sometimes one of us made more and sometimes the other did, but in the end, it was a wash. The biggest issue I see is your pension. Sounds like the court will have to decide that.

Thanks everyone!

-OP

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for all the advice, everyone! He moved out a year ago and the mortgage is fairly high, so that 1/2 of that is over $10k and potentially worth going to court over. If I could win it....

Similarly, $1,500 in child support for the past 6 months, plus something less for the first 6 months when DS was tentatively trying to live with him, is also potentially worth over $10k. Again, if I could win it....

The pension thing.... Yes, he has one, but he wants to retire at 56, which means a huge cut to his monthly pension amount. He wants a pension-sharing arrangement where I give him 1/2 of my much larger pension because I'm planning to continue working. So I said no, I'm not going to finance your early retirement. We're at an impasse here.

So that's why I'm here! My lawyers can't offer certainty in the child support, mortgage, and pension issues if we go to court. I realize certainty doesn't exist! But I'm interested in others' experiences.

You're getting divorced and need to go to court. You're lawyer can't offer certainty because there is none. A judge will decide. You should have filed right away instead of hashing it out with your dh who is only thinking about himself. Stick with your lawyer, try to get as much of the assets as you can.

Like I said.... 10K is marginal at best. Odds are the retainer for your attorney would be at least 10K. They will use that up... so its a push... spend 10K to make 10K. What do you get? headache during the process...

PS - I meant that DS spent a few days here and there trying to live part-time with XH, and then decided against it. So I'd still be due a smaller amount of child support for that period.