If politely but firmly communicating with his family when he fails to do so is a deal breaker, break the deal.

DH needs to grow up and speak up for you/kids. Try counseling again.

Anonymous wrote:OP, what I understand is why you are unable or unwilling to lay it out for your MIL the same way you explained it to us. Apparently, MIL does not get the hint. So tell her in plain English. She'll probably blow a gasket, at which point you can tell DH to go and handle his mother. It will be an unpleasant confrontation, but there is no other way you can stop being annoyed and resenting your in-laws and DH. I don't think your examples are horrible, and I do think MIL means well. However, if you are not willing to tolerate this, you should put a stop to this. Call her out. Respectfully and politely. Kids will get it.

I'm plenty willing and able, but have refrained because DH has told me that it's somewhat of a deal breaker if I do speak up. Again, that's where the frustration comes in. DH basically expects me to deal with whatever they do or say.

OP, what I understand is why you are unable or unwilling to lay it out for your MIL the same way you explained it to us. Apparently, MIL does not get the hint. So tell her in plain English. She'll probably blow a gasket, at which point you can tell DH to go and handle his mother. It will be an unpleasant confrontation, but there is no other way you can stop being annoyed and resenting your in-laws and DH. I don't think your examples are horrible, and I do think MIL means well. However, if you are not willing to tolerate this, you should put a stop to this. Call her out. Respectfully and politely. Kids will get it.

Anonymous wrote:I actually don't agree with the standard advice that each spouse should handle his & her family's craziness. Ideally, yes, we should. But if we were raised by these people with this form of crazy, then we're in it - we can't see it clearly for it is, and we have deeply entrenched habits. It's not as simple as deciding "hey, I'm going to put my spouse and children first!" If only it were that easy.

Further, the people with these unhealthy dynamics are often relying on the life-long relationship and love from their child to get away with this stuff. When I say no to the ILs, they respect it and accept it much more quickly than when DH says no. He can say "no" a dozen times and his mother will keep pestering him. Could he cut her off to force the boundary issue? Sure, but is that really the ideal solution here? We don't think so. I step in and say "thanks so much for your thoughtfulness, but that doesn't work for our family" and that's the end of it. She drops it, because she knows that I don't do this endless badgering thing - and I call it what it is, and that's harassment. Her son would never dare describe her behavior as harassment, even when he does feel harassed.

With my parents, we have a problem with direct communication - DH walks in, is super direct, and just point blank asks my siblings what they want, and he takes them at their word, rather than trying to read between the lines. So my family knows there's no subtle 2nd & 3rd meanings with my husband - say what you mean when you have the chance.

Anyway, we've found that we each can bring a new, somewhat healthier dynamic to the IL relationship so we don't opt out and just say "oh, that's your family, your problem."

OP here-I'm with you on this. We don't have the same issues with my family because either I'll speak up or DH will and my parents are generally ok with it. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way with DH's family.

Anonymous wrote:OP, tell your husband that you're going to start taking the reins since he won't. Your birthday when your grandmother died: you tell MIL "no, thanks, I'm feeling sad and I'm not up to company, but thank you so much anyway. We'll see you next weekend." Regardless of what DH says or wants, you just go ahead and do it. Camping: "thanks, MIL, but I'm not much of a camper, so I'm going to pass"
and let your DH go with the kids. Stand up to her as far as the kids' medical condition and just come out and tell her her comments to them and about them on this are counterproductive and contrary to what the doctors say. Etc. You pick the battles and set those boundaries.

If your DH nags you about holiday plans, just pick a date by which the decision will be made and tell him not to keep asking you. If he won't push back in his mother, the solution is not that he should keep nagging you. Offer to tell her that you won't really know until [x date].

The counselor suggested a "hard" date to make holiday decisions by, which we agreed on (a month before said holiday). Then, DH started asking me well before that date. When I reminded him about the date we agreed on, he said that he didn't understand why we just couldn't make a decision then. It MIGHT be ok to decide about the holiday well in advance, but then we're expected to commit to a time, what we're bringing, etc. It's just never enough. Anyway, I'm generally just trying to keep up with what's going on in the next week or month, much less what's happening in four, five, or six months. I've hosted plenty of holidays and get that it's helpful and courteous to let people know if you're coming so the requisite plans can be made, but it's just hard for me to commit to plans with anyone that far in advance. People don't even need that much lead time when you RSVP to a wedding! I think is a good example of why I'm feeling so frustrated-many of the the logical solutions haven't worked so far.

I wouldn't bite my tongue when MIL comments on the kids medical treatment. I allow my genuine shock for such behavior show and just reaction - "MIL, this treatment is critical to little Joey's health, and we can't have you calling it poison. If you have a serious concern, we can talk about it offline, but not in front of the kids."

I agree with the posters that are saying your husband seems to side with them. I think people generally do what is in their best interest. He is not confronting/ disagreeing with them because he doesn't want to. No real advice here. Just somehing you need to accept.

Medical issues: HELL TO THE NO!!

Give your mother in law lots of literature to read up on and tell her to address any commments to you or your husband alone. Tell her yor discussed with their doctor her advice and she/he stated emphatically that children need to follow the advice of their medical professionals and her comments can add to the confusion.

OP, tell your husband that you're going to start taking the reins since he won't. Your birthday when your grandmother died: you tell MIL "no, thanks, I'm feeling sad and I'm not up to company, but thank you so much anyway. We'll see you next weekend." Regardless of what DH says or wants, you just go ahead and do it. Camping: "thanks, MIL, but I'm not much of a camper, so I'm going to pass"
and let your DH go with the kids. Stand up to her as far as the kids' medical condition and just come out and tell her her comments to them and about them on this are counterproductive and contrary to what the doctors say. Etc. You pick the battles and set those boundaries.

If your DH nags you about holiday plans, just pick a date by which the decision will be made and tell him not to keep asking you. If he won't push back in his mother, the solution is not that he should keep nagging you. Offer to tell her that you won't really know until [x date].

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you need to do more behind the scenes work. Why don't you know your holiday plans 6 months ahead of time? That's not that unusual.

Don't allow Christmas presents to be opened before Christmas morning. Say it's your tradition. Why does your dH need to tell them this?

It really sounds like your DH doesn't like the way YOU do things. He likes his family and wants to go on trips with them and have them over for dinner. He thinks you're the problem and doesn't know how to tell you. He's trying to tell you from his actions that he doesn't agree with you.

OP, this occurred to me as well (see bold, because I do not agree with the idea that you must have holiday plans set six months in advance!).

I would absolutely tell DH that going back into counseling is a must for you both, and I'd explore what the PP says above. DH may not consciously realize that he just wants to do things his family's way, when that may be the case. I also would want to explore whether he has issues with fearing confronting his family. So very, very many adults just use avoidance all the time with their parents because as they grew up, avoidance and acquiescence were the only ways to "go along to get along." He may also see ANY comment he might make, however gentle or innocuous, as something that his mom will interpret as conflict and confrontation. Did the counselor you had go into any of these things? Talk about DH's family dynamic as he grew up and how that needs to change once one is an adult, etc.? Maybe so, but it sounds like any such talks didn't stick, and DH is still using what he knows works to keep the peace -- avoidance.

The fact he wants YOU to avoid saying anything that might not be what his mom wants to hear -- that's very telling. He's scared of causing even the tiniest ripple on the pond. And he absolutely puts his parents ahead of you and your kids though he probably would resist it if you tell him that. He might need individual therapy as well as couples counseling with you.

And be sure to get a different counselor. Sounds like the first one didn't work so well since DH "got it" intellectually but never worked on a specific action plan with the counselor. If the counselor didn't work with him on tactics, on things to say and do when MIL is intrusive -- yeah, you need a new counselor who will deal with actions and not just with helping DH realize what's going on.

I do think that the examples you give are frankly more intrusive annoyances than anything truly huge, but they add up, and clearly you, yourself, have a long-standing issue with MIL overall, so -- back to counseling.

The one place I would absolutely tell DH and MIL that there is NO flexibility is with your kids' health. If MIL doesn't get that they have a diagnosed, potentially serious condition, tell her you will drive her to their doctor and let the doctor explain it to her face to face and walk through every medication they take with her. (If she says yes, which I doubt -- do it! Prepare the doctor to blind her with science and shut her down.) If she starts to try to sway the kids against their own meds, that's a deal-breaker. Her SON to tell her that the topic is permanently closed and raising it again will mean you, he and the kids walk out of the room when she starts to talk about it. But it sounds like he won't do that yet, and you may have to. I would really wait until the next time she starts to badmouth meds, and take her aside (no kids present) to say, "I will take you to the kids' doctor and have the doctor explain this to you. I really will do that, if you are willing to go. But starting today, I am asking you not to mention the kids' medication in front of them or me. It is confusing them and upsetting them and me. If it comes up again, we'll have to cut that visit short."

I actually don't agree with the standard advice that each spouse should handle his & her family's craziness. Ideally, yes, we should. But if we were raised by these people with this form of crazy, then we're in it - we can't see it clearly for it is, and we have deeply entrenched habits. It's not as simple as deciding "hey, I'm going to put my spouse and children first!" If only it were that easy.

Further, the people with these unhealthy dynamics are often relying on the life-long relationship and love from their child to get away with this stuff. When I say no to the ILs, they respect it and accept it much more quickly than when DH says no. He can say "no" a dozen times and his mother will keep pestering him. Could he cut her off to force the boundary issue? Sure, but is that really the ideal solution here? We don't think so. I step in and say "thanks so much for your thoughtfulness, but that doesn't work for our family" and that's the end of it. She drops it, because she knows that I don't do this endless badgering thing - and I call it what it is, and that's harassment. Her son would never dare describe her behavior as harassment, even when he does feel harassed.

With my parents, we have a problem with direct communication - DH walks in, is super direct, and just point blank asks my siblings what they want, and he takes them at their word, rather than trying to read between the lines. So my family knows there's no subtle 2nd & 3rd meanings with my husband - say what you mean when you have the chance.

Anyway, we've found that we each can bring a new, somewhat healthier dynamic to the IL relationship so we don't opt out and just say "oh, that's your family, your problem."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does your husband think it's ok to consistently put his parents ahead of you? Ask him this point-blank.

What kinds of things are we talking about?

I have asked him this over and over; as has a counselor. He seems to understand "intellectually" what he's doing, but then can't execute on doing anything about it.

The things range from little things to bigger things. I don't think the ILs are evil, but generally thoughtless and if DH had just spoken up in the beginning (and not in a mean or loud way), I think things would be much better. To make matters worse, when I've asked if I can speak up for myself and the kids, he prefers that I don't. Personally, I think it's even unfair to my ILs for DH not to tell them nicely, but directly, about expectations.

Here are some random examples:

Planned a camping weekend for the family without asking us first if we'd like to go. She told us that she'd like us to all be together (again, nice sentiment), but that "if she was paying, she was picking." We've never asked her to ever pay for our vacation or anything else for that matter. Emailed the list of things we were to bring and cook. I don't camp, so I had no intention of going. She also planned a "girls' shopping day" in Gettysburg near the campground for my mother (who lives 2 hours from Gettysburg), SIL, herself, and me. My mother never even knew about the shopping day and I wasn't camping, so I definitely wasn't driving to Gettysburg to shop. She was "shocked" when DH finally had to tell her neither my mother nor I were going.

My grandmother died and the services were the weekend of my birthday. MIL called and announced that she and FIL were coming over with BIL and SIL to celebrate my birthday. That's a nice sentiment, but I wasn't at all up for any celebration at all. DH couldn't tell her no, so they all came over.

ILs take kids out for Christmas presents in late October or November (we all live in the same general area, so it isn't as if we won't see them nearer to the holiday); brings the kids home and asks in front of me if it's ok that they have all the gifts then. Sometimes, what they buy (even if I try to give parameters), are special things I've already bought or are planning to get from Santa.

Asks literally six months in advance if we're celebrating a particular holiday with them. DH expects me to decide our holiday plans at that time because she will continue to ask him every week until he answers.

Promises kids they'll take them somewhere or do something with them and then back out at the last minute and don't give a reason.

Two of my kids have Crohn's disease and MIL gives them diet "advice" and asks in front of them if we can stop with their infusions since so much "medication is like poison." I don't want to be disrespectful or have my kids be disrespectful, but at the same time, the "advice" is complete crap, so I'm in the position to try to explain that grandma doesn't know what she's talking about.

Oh op these examples are not that bad at all. I mean, obviously, they ARE bad, but by the standards of some of the crazy ILs people write about here, not that bad. RE your grandmother dying, YES, DH should have told your in laws not to come over, but at that point, it's been established that your DH is useless, you should have called them. It sounds like you can just directly engage them without anger or resentment occurring. The other stuff like planning events, not bad. The diet advice, yes, annoying, but not that bad. That's stuff we all have to deal with, with our parents. Your MIL sounds caring and annoyingly oblivious-- MOST mother in laws are like this. Most MOTHERS are like this, period. At least be happy that she is nice and means well and is not a mean person.

I don't disagree that the individual examples aren't that bad. It's just the same crap over years and years without any resolution ever in sight has made me resentful. The food advice and questioning the Crohn's treatment does really make me mad, though, because what she tells them is opposite of what our doctors say. I also fear that as the ILs get older (they're youngest and in good shape), we'll have a situation where they're asking to move in. We moved into a largish house a few years ago and MIL made "jokes" several times that if we finished the basement it'd be perfect for them to live in. I'm not sure DH would be able to tell them no about that.

Tell DH that he can live with you *or* his parents, but not both.

Anonymous wrote:Based on the examples you have given, I think you need to return to a counselor with your DH and tell him that these things need to stop. Your preference would be that he do it, and you will give him X amount of time to do so. After that, you will calmly but politely say the things that need to be said to them. You understand that he would prefer that you not, but in cases where you or your children's mental/physical health is concerned, you can't let it go on. So you ARE GIVING HIM THE DECISION as to whether he will do it or you will, but one of those things must happen.

+1

Tell him that if he won't say no, you will, and he needs to think hard about which option will ultimately be worse for him.

Meanwhile, start practicing basics like "No, thank you," "That won't work for us," etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does your husband think it's ok to consistently put his parents ahead of you? Ask him this point-blank.

What kinds of things are we talking about?

I have asked him this over and over; as has a counselor. He seems to understand "intellectually" what he's doing, but then can't execute on doing anything about it.

The things range from little things to bigger things. I don't think the ILs are evil, but generally thoughtless and if DH had just spoken up in the beginning (and not in a mean or loud way), I think things would be much better. To make matters worse, when I've asked if I can speak up for myself and the kids, he prefers that I don't. Personally, I think it's even unfair to my ILs for DH not to tell them nicely, but directly, about expectations.

Here are some random examples:

Planned a camping weekend for the family without asking us first if we'd like to go. She told us that she'd like us to all be together (again, nice sentiment), but that "if she was paying, she was picking." We've never asked her to ever pay for our vacation or anything else for that matter. Emailed the list of things we were to bring and cook. I don't camp, so I had no intention of going. She also planned a "girls' shopping day" in Gettysburg near the campground for my mother (who lives 2 hours from Gettysburg), SIL, herself, and me. My mother never even knew about the shopping day and I wasn't camping, so I definitely wasn't driving to Gettysburg to shop. She was "shocked" when DH finally had to tell her neither my mother nor I were going.

My grandmother died and the services were the weekend of my birthday. MIL called and announced that she and FIL were coming over with BIL and SIL to celebrate my birthday. That's a nice sentiment, but I wasn't at all up for any celebration at all. DH couldn't tell her no, so they all came over.

ILs take kids out for Christmas presents in late October or November (we all live in the same general area, so it isn't as if we won't see them nearer to the holiday); brings the kids home and asks in front of me if it's ok that they have all the gifts then. Sometimes, what they buy (even if I try to give parameters), are special things I've already bought or are planning to get from Santa.

Asks literally six months in advance if we're celebrating a particular holiday with them. DH expects me to decide our holiday plans at that time because she will continue to ask him every week until he answers.

Promises kids they'll take them somewhere or do something with them and then back out at the last minute and don't give a reason.

Two of my kids have Crohn's disease and MIL gives them diet "advice" and asks in front of them if we can stop with their infusions since so much "medication is like poison." I don't want to be disrespectful or have my kids be disrespectful, but at the same time, the "advice" is complete crap, so I'm in the position to try to explain that grandma doesn't know what she's talking about.

This is where you need to take control. Stop passing it to your dh who has decided he doesn't want to be in the middle. If you have plans don't want company YOU nicely let them know. They come over you stand in the doorway, and nicely say it isn't a good time. Holidays, make plans with just your family and stick with them. Go away if you have to, move to another city....many choices.

Anonymous wrote:Op I get it.
And your examples are fine, they show overbearing meddling inlaws with no boundaries doing things that directly affect you. It's awful, I'm in the same boat.
We did the counseling as well with little improvement.
The ONLY thing that has worked is for me to say "DH I am giving you until Friday to tell your mother that we are not spending $5k to go glamping in winter. If you don't, I will."

After a couple episodes of me not being as nice to his mother as he would have been and dealing with her,
And her calling him in tears which was actually worse than if he just manned up and told her we didn't want a $300 Barbie jeep in our 1 bedroom walk up, he started saying " no no no I'll do it myself."

Yes, I think you're right about this. Definitely worth a try.

Occasional issues are part of the give and take of being married and negotiating family things, but when it's all the time, over and over, it's just too much.