Anonymous
02/05/2016 07:04
Subject: Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
At this point, charters are holding our local DCPS back. Would it be as good as it is without charter competition? Who knows.
I do agree that DC parents have too much choice now. When competition is used to weed out bad restaurants, you just have people visiting a restaurant or two that the don't like. When you use a competition model to try to create school quality, you get a lot of churn, and the research shows that frequently moving kids from school to school is detrimental to them psychologically. None of the countries that kick our asses on those international tests try to achieve scholl quality via the market.
People also have this illusion that LAMB and Yu Ying are real options. They take 2-3% of applicants. They aren't options.
I do agree that DC parents have too much choice now. When competition is used to weed out bad restaurants, you just have people visiting a restaurant or two that the don't like. When you use a competition model to try to create school quality, you get a lot of churn, and the research shows that frequently moving kids from school to school is detrimental to them psychologically. None of the countries that kick our asses on those international tests try to achieve scholl quality via the market.
People also have this illusion that LAMB and Yu Ying are real options. They take 2-3% of applicants. They aren't options.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 23:33
Subject: Re:Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We were looking for houses in silver spring when we won the lottery and bought in NE DC instead.
I think the question is what would have happened if you and you neighbors actually gave it a shot and enrolled in your DCPS instead of automatically assuming DCPS wouldn't cut it. I am a charter parent so I'm not making judgments I am also curious about this question. Deal for instance was largely OOB until the last decade or so. Now you see the same changes being made at Bancroft, Hardy, Shepherd, Brent, Ross, Eaton, Hearst. Folk EOTP are just as wealthy and educated as WOTP if they would've collectively enrolled in DCPS would they have changed faster or did DCPS need the competition of charters? Chicken or the egg. Personally, I think charters lit the fire but would like to see DCPS continue to make a comeback. Charters also introduced more school choice which has hurt DCPS and charters alike. Too much movement and too many parents feel entitled to a tailored for school that offers XYZ.
They weren't my neighbors. I was in upper NW in a tiny two bedroom I hated because it was a good school district. I wouldn't have bought a house in a bad school district except for the fact I lotteried into a charter, so there was never a chance of me giving my EOTP neighborhood school a chance because it wasn't my neighborhood. The answer is, yes, charters kept me in DC. For others, ones who lived eotp, the answer is likely the hope of a charter kept them in DC and then they discovered their neighborhood school when the charter route failed and then they discovered a "bad" school district wasn't so bad after all.
I do agree that school choice hurts charters too not just dcps - I hate losing families year after year. But it is what it is.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 23:22
Subject: Re:Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
Charters have been great for many families who are not on dcurbanmom
In our neighborhood... (Also Shepherd) I would say charters are a drain -- but perhaps that drain is also what's keeping Shepherd economically diverse.
In our neighborhood... (Also Shepherd) I would say charters are a drain -- but perhaps that drain is also what's keeping Shepherd economically diverse.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 23:10
Subject: Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We stayed in DC for our EOTP DCPS. But I think your question is oversimplified BS and unnecessarily divisive. This is DCUM, not Fox News.
How is this divisive? Its a calculation every single parent is probably making at some point, Hell if DCPS was smart they would be the one asking this question. With a follow up "what specifically can DCPS do to get you to stay at your IB" (tracking, test in, gifted classes--but that is roundly ignored so they stop asking).
Because it pushes the narrative you're either a DCPS parent or a charter parent. I am and I've met too many people in the gray area. Consider this:
Some parents want to be able to choose a DCPS for ES, a charter for MS, and an application DCPS for HS (or some other variation of that). How does that fit your question?
Some parents want a strong neighborhood school and also options for other specialized things (e.g., language immersion, montessori, etc.), and as an incubator for new ideas.
I'm pretty pro-DCPS, but there's also room for Charter schools in the equation too.
I'd be happy to see the Tier 3 charters closed down, and even Tier 2s that aren't doing any better than the surrounding neighborhood schools. Then, expand the Tier 1s, or have them bring their programs into DCPS.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 23:04
Subject: Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
As a parent of kids both in DCPS and a highly regarded charter, I say parents need both options, as well as the option to home school children when needed.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 23:01
Subject: Re:Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:We were looking for houses in silver spring when we won the lottery and bought in NE DC instead.
I think the question is what would have happened if you and you neighbors actually gave it a shot and enrolled in your DCPS instead of automatically assuming DCPS wouldn't cut it. I am a charter parent so I'm not making judgments I am also curious about this question. Deal for instance was largely OOB until the last decade or so. Now you see the same changes being made at Bancroft, Hardy, Shepherd, Brent, Ross, Eaton, Hearst. Folk EOTP are just as wealthy and educated as WOTP if they would've collectively enrolled in DCPS would they have changed faster or did DCPS need the competition of charters? Chicken or the egg. Personally, I think charters lit the fire but would like to see DCPS continue to make a comeback. Charters also introduced more school choice which has hurt DCPS and charters alike. Too much movement and too many parents feel entitled to a tailored for school that offers XYZ.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 22:58
Subject: Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:We stayed in DC for our EOTP DCPS. But I think your question is oversimplified BS and unnecessarily divisive. This is DCUM, not Fox News.
How is this divisive? Its a calculation every single parent is probably making at some point, Hell if DCPS was smart they would be the one asking this question. With a follow up "what specifically can DCPS do to get you to stay at your IB" (tracking, test in, gifted classes--but that is roundly ignored so they stop asking).
Anonymous
02/04/2016 22:57
Subject: Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
Been in the city 20 years. Now with a kid. If we get into a charter we like we will stay in city, if not, moving to Northern VA in two years. Pretty much most of my neighbors with toddlers have the same mindset. Our IB east of the park is ok for PSs/4 but need to bail by K before the gaps start to widen in the classrom.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 22:44
Subject: Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
We stayed in DC for our EOTP DCPS. But I think your question is oversimplified BS and unnecessarily divisive. This is DCUM, not Fox News.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 22:07
Subject: Re:Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
We were looking for houses in silver spring when we won the lottery and bought in NE DC instead.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 21:56
Subject: Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:If there were no charters, I think we would have a majority middle/high SES elementary school (Watkins). The demographics exist in the neighborhood but so many of the kids end up somewhere else starting in pk3, pk4 and K. I don't think the neighborhood would have gentrified to this extent without charters, but I would love to see them abolished tomorrow and see how things shake out. Sadly that ship has sailed.
I'm interested in seeing what happens at Watkins over the next few years. I think the new Cluster principle is very good, and doing much to try to unite Watkins with Peabody.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 21:48
Subject: Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
Charter kept us in the city no doubt. We would have been gone, gone, gone when the oldest reached 6th grade if it weren't for Charters. We live in Capitol Hill. There are things DCPS could have done with the middle schools in our area ( consolidation, honors programs, facility improvements ) that would have kept us in the neighborhood schools but they chose not to. Seeing what has become of all three middle schools and the continued academic and beaurocratic ****show that continues at the middle school level I feel like we dodged a bullet.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 21:09
Subject: Re:Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Overall #2. But it's catch 22. DCPS in our neighborhood is good (Shepherd) although many historically have and will continue to always go private. Citywide, if it weren't for charters I don't think DCPS would even be competitive as they are today.
+1. Also IB at Shepherd--I see some of my neighbors sending their kids to HRCS, but I don't think many of these are in direct competition. Many offer features that just aren't available at Shepherd, such as language immersion and Montessori. Despite this competition, IB % is increasing at Shepherd, so it seems good neighborhood DCPS and charters can, in some instances, peacefully coexist.
Anonymous
02/04/2016 20:47
Subject: Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
+1
Anonymous
02/04/2016 20:25
Subject: Are charters keeping you in DC - or are they holding back your neighborhood DCPS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If there were no charters, I think we would have a majority middle/high SES elementary school (Watkins). The demographics exist in the neighborhood but so many of the kids end up somewhere else starting in pk3, pk4 and K. I don't think the neighborhood would have gentrified to this extent without charters, but I would love to see them abolished tomorrow and see how things shake out. Sadly that ship has sailed.
No charters is not the same thing as everyone going to their in-boundary DCPS school.
+1000