I see this has become the official gunner thread of DCUM

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Really appreciating the advice. Would all reviser other perspectives as well. Thank you everyone.

One other thought is that you will be doing most of your own admin work. At my agency (and I believe this is true in others as well) one admin will support 40 attorneys so you'll be on your own for making copies, scanning, etc.

Another PP mentioned it but also keep in mind the perks when considering total compensation (paid metro fair, lower health insurance costs, TSP match). I don't think you mentioned your salary but as an income partner at a mid-size firm I would guess you're between $200K-$250K so while it will still be a pay cut you should keep those benefits in mind.

Anonymous wrote:Any other thoughts? Really appreciate it.

For OP, if you can stomach the pay decrease. You already answered your own question, you are not looking to moveup (haha hate for business development).

Plus, you small kids and you will never get these years back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

It sounds like you picked the wrong career regardless of whether you're private or public sector. Or maybe your standards are too high?

Don't think I picked the wrong career at all -- my prior job had challenging work and super smart people, so it's not like that can't be found in law. I think I picked the wrong current job. I guess my standards are too high, but I'm not ready to settle yet.

Whether the SEC has a good or bad rep amongst other regulators -- it has a decent rep in the areas I care about -- the private sector -- bc it does a lot of work closely tied to the private sector and bc it is hard to get into. Sure -- I'm sure DOJ is more prestigious, but a gig there prosecuting drug crime just doesn't do anything for my career; theoretically every DOJ prosecutor can go be a law firm partner, but the reality is that move has gotten harder and harder over the years as firms aren't dying to take lateral partners w/o a book and are even less willing to give chances to people who aren't 100% working in the same areas as that firm. It isn't the same model of - go be an AUSA for 4 yrs - and you can pick your partnership.

I work at the SEC and came from big law. It took a long time for me to come to terms with the level of attorneys, particularly those who came from really crappy law schools (so never had a chance of working in private practice). However, now that I have kids, I would not give up the flexibility, benefits and job security it provides. I also met quite a few DOJ attorneys (during my time as an enforcement attorney at another govt agency) and they were extremely burnt out and very poorly paid.

Recently a former boss of mine offered me a position at a very prestigious law firm. I didn't even blink when I thanked her for her very kind offer and declined. I would never see my two young kids, and I do not want that stress during weekends, after hours and on vacations (I still remember that).

BTW my sibling works at a very prestigious investment bank in NY and he is very unimpressed by some of the other federal regulators (FDIC, OCC, CFTC and the Fed), so trust me when I say there are mediocre attorneys everywhere.

To the original OP. I think it's much easier to transition as a non-partner. I know one partner in particular who has such a huge ego, that no one in the office can stand her. Meanwhile she's constantly talking about when she was a partner. Newsflash. No one cares.

It's definitely all about trade-offs.

Anonymous wrote:I made the opposite move after working as a gov attorney for almost 10 years. I ask myself every day what took me so long to make the change. Everything about the gov was mediocre- my colleagues who were all content doing the bare minimum, the work that was monotonous and bored me to tears, the leadership of my agency who were uninspiring. I've found that I love challenges, take pride from doing great work, love being autonomous & having the ability to take on different projects, have a need to be proud of what I do. I didn't get that at my old job (and different agencies may vary).

I work closer to 50 hours a week now but my days and weeks go by so much faster than when I was miserable at work every day due to boredom.

Did you go law firm - large or small? In house? Something else? Sounds like you need to talk to the PP posting above who is 6 months into the govt and miserable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

It sounds like you picked the wrong career regardless of whether you're private or public sector. Or maybe your standards are too high?

Don't think I picked the wrong career at all -- my prior job had challenging work and super smart people, so it's not like that can't be found in law. I think I picked the wrong current job. I guess my standards are too high, but I'm not ready to settle yet.

Whether the SEC has a good or bad rep amongst other regulators -- it has a decent rep in the areas I care about -- the private sector -- bc it does a lot of work closely tied to the private sector and bc it is hard to get into. Sure -- I'm sure DOJ is more prestigious, but a gig there prosecuting drug crime just doesn't do anything for my career; theoretically every DOJ prosecutor can go be a law firm partner, but the reality is that move has gotten harder and harder over the years as firms aren't dying to take lateral partners w/o a book and are even less willing to give chances to people who aren't 100% working in the same areas as that firm. It isn't the same model of - go be an AUSA for 4 yrs - and you can pick your partnership.

I made the opposite move after working as a gov attorney for almost 10 years. I ask myself every day what took me so long to make the change. Everything about the gov was mediocre- my colleagues who were all content doing the bare minimum, the work that was monotonous and bored me to tears, the leadership of my agency who were uninspiring. I've found that I love challenges, take pride from doing great work, love being autonomous & having the ability to take on different projects, have a need to be proud of what I do. I didn't get that at my old job (and different agencies may vary).

I work closer to 50 hours a week now but my days and weeks go by so much faster than when I was miserable at work every day due to boredom.

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

It sounds like you picked the wrong career regardless of whether you're private or public sector. Or maybe your standards are too high?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Also -- how much do you like (or dislike) client service? Bc obviously in the gov't, you are no longer in a client service business and sometimes it hits later if you miss it.

Which agency? I am at a govt agency and moved in from biglaw about 2.5 years ago. I initially found it boring and thought my workload was not enough. I am very efficient and was fast even at my old NY law firm, so my ability to get work done well was way beyond my colleagues. I constantly entertained the idea of going back to biglaw, and I missed client interaction, group work, meetings, etc.

Now almost 2.5 years in, I have proven myself, so I get A LOT of challenging, high profile work. I also have a kid and so I appreciate the lighter workload. I can't imagine going back to a firm. I still look at in house positions but with the flexibility of a govt job (telework, being able to leave and pick up my sick kid at daycare if needed without any pushback, etc.) I can't give it up!

Of course there will be pros and cons, but considering both home and work, I have no regrets!

[/b]SEC.[b] I can't get over how "average" the people are. I know DCUM will jump down my throat -- I'm not saying they're stupid; most have good school pedigrees, good firms etc. and then they came to the gov't and decided that work only matters up until 5pm (or 3 pm but not on a telework day). It's stunning that it was hard to get into this agency -- but I know it is bc I am now seeing how many resumes are coming in for ONE spot that we're hiring for. 3 more decades of this makes me want to cry.

The SEC had that reputation. Really slow and unmotivated employees. Pays well. I wouldn't say other regulators think that highly of them.

^^ would appreciate

Op here. Really appreciating the advice. Would all reviser other perspectives as well. Thank you everyone.

I'm not in law but like you, I left big industry for the government. In our field, we get a lot of people coming from industry for work life balance, so I get to work with a lot of strong, motivated people, which is great. I agree that getting used to the inflexibility of the government can be frustrating, but it all depends on who you work with. In my group, I can go to lunch or coffee with a colleague as long as my work gets done. I don't ask, I just do it. I have heard of offices where that's not the case. One of my gov. colleagues is in an awful office. She did a 6 month detail in another office within her same agency, and they gave her an award. I kid you not, her supervisor told her she had to take leave for 2 hours to attend the awards ceremony with the agency's director because her detail was over and that award "wasn't as a result of her core duties." That wouldn't happen in my group. As long as you get your work done right and on-time, nobody is watching you like a hawk. Need to leave for an hour? I just work an hour later. Amazingly, in some agencies/offices that simple idea is not permitted. I could never survive in a micro-managing environment like that.

Be warned that the culture of flexibility can vary dramatically within an agency. I sit 25 feet away from a group in my same office that has totally different standards and expectations on flexibility. It all boils down to who you have to work for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Also -- how much do you like (or dislike) client service? Bc obviously in the gov't, you are no longer in a client service business and sometimes it hits later if you miss it.

Which agency? I am at a govt agency and moved in from biglaw about 2.5 years ago. I initially found it boring and thought my workload was not enough. I am very efficient and was fast even at my old NY law firm, so my ability to get work done well was way beyond my colleagues. I constantly entertained the idea of going back to biglaw, and I missed client interaction, group work, meetings, etc.

Now almost 2.5 years in, I have proven myself, so I get A LOT of challenging, high profile work. I also have a kid and so I appreciate the lighter workload. I can't imagine going back to a firm. I still look at in house positions but with the flexibility of a govt job (telework, being able to leave and pick up my sick kid at daycare if needed without any pushback, etc.) I can't give it up!

Of course there will be pros and cons, but considering both home and work, I have no regrets!

SEC. I can't get over how "average" the people are. I know DCUM will jump down my throat -- I'm not saying they're stupid; most have good school pedigrees, good firms etc. and then they came to the gov't and decided that work only matters up until 5pm (or 3 pm but not on a telework day). It's stunning that it was hard to get into this agency -- but I know it is bc I am now seeing how many resumes are coming in for ONE spot that we're hiring for. 3 more decades of this makes me want to cry.

Another SEC attorney here. I knew what agency before you even said it. I felt exactly the way you did when I got there, but seriously, look at it as an opportunity. If you are smart, hard charging, and willing to work hard you can distinguish yourself and move up and around to more challenging positions with more impressive colleagues. All parts of the SEC are not equal. There are pockets where very smart people are doing high level work. It can take some effort to find them, but they're there.

PP here - care to vaguely mention which pockets are better than others? I assume enforcement (not a litigator) but others? For the posters saying it takes a yr to get out of firm mindset - maybe you're right. I'm trying not to be reactionary with this because I know it was hard to get in the door, and I came in looking at this for the medium or long term - not necessarily a lifer but not thinking about it as a 2 yr stint either. Maybe it'll click at the one yr mark but honestly I think at the one yr mark I may give myself "permission" to get a job search going to see if I can get back to the private sector.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Also -- how much do you like (or dislike) client service? Bc obviously in the gov't, you are no longer in a client service business and sometimes it hits later if you miss it.

Which agency? I am at a govt agency and moved in from biglaw about 2.5 years ago. I initially found it boring and thought my workload was not enough. I am very efficient and was fast even at my old NY law firm, so my ability to get work done well was way beyond my colleagues. I constantly entertained the idea of going back to biglaw, and I missed client interaction, group work, meetings, etc.

Now almost 2.5 years in, I have proven myself, so I get A LOT of challenging, high profile work. I also have a kid and so I appreciate the lighter workload. I can't imagine going back to a firm. I still look at in house positions but with the flexibility of a govt job (telework, being able to leave and pick up my sick kid at daycare if needed without any pushback, etc.) I can't give it up!

Of course there will be pros and cons, but considering both home and work, I have no regrets!

SEC. I can't get over how "average" the people are. I know DCUM will jump down my throat -- I'm not saying they're stupid; most have good school pedigrees, good firms etc. and then they came to the gov't and decided that work only matters up until 5pm (or 3 pm but not on a telework day). It's stunning that it was hard to get into this agency -- but I know it is bc I am now seeing how many resumes are coming in for ONE spot that we're hiring for. 3 more decades of this makes me want to cry.

Here is the thing about leaving a law firm -- it takes about a year, sometimes a little longer, for you to realize what a bad and crazy lifestyle it was. Your brain at 7 months out is still in firm mode; it is a lifestyle so severely imprinted on your brain that it takes a long time to recover. You still think that way of working is normal and indicative of greatness. When it fades, you may come back to this post and say, "Ah, what a fool was I!"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just did this move - biglaw senior associate to gov't - about 7 months ago. I left bc I wasn't going to make partner and didn't have too much of a choice and I needed to move cities and get to DC for life reasons. I'm at one of the "great" agencies that's hard to get into and to be honest -- I am really unhappy and wanting to go back to any kind of firm.

Despite this being such a hard to get into agency that's so "high level," I find the people to be unmotivated and they only care about work life balance -- i.e. working as little as possible; I haven't met one person yet that I think is amazing at their job (though they are nice). So for me -- I am biding my time and thankful for my paycheck and the stability as I figure out whether I need to make a move to mid/small law or if I can get in house or whatever bc the thought of doing this for 10 yrs or life or whatever is too much to take.

So consider whether you are someone who needs/wants challenge and super smart people bc you may not get that.

Also -- how much do you like (or dislike) client service? Bc obviously in the gov't, you are no longer in a client service business and sometimes it hits later if you miss it.

Which agency? I am at a govt agency and moved in from biglaw about 2.5 years ago. I initially found it boring and thought my workload was not enough. I am very efficient and was fast even at my old NY law firm, so my ability to get work done well was way beyond my colleagues. I constantly entertained the idea of going back to biglaw, and I missed client interaction, group work, meetings, etc.

Now almost 2.5 years in, I have proven myself, so I get A LOT of challenging, high profile work. I also have a kid and so I appreciate the lighter workload. I can't imagine going back to a firm. I still look at in house positions but with the flexibility of a govt job (telework, being able to leave and pick up my sick kid at daycare if needed without any pushback, etc.) I can't give it up!

Of course there will be pros and cons, but considering both home and work, I have no regrets!

SEC. I can't get over how "average" the people are. I know DCUM will jump down my throat -- I'm not saying they're stupid; most have good school pedigrees, good firms etc. and then they came to the gov't and decided that work only matters up until 5pm (or 3 pm but not on a telework day). It's stunning that it was hard to get into this agency -- but I know it is bc I am now seeing how many resumes are coming in for ONE spot that we're hiring for. 3 more decades of this makes me want to cry.

Another SEC attorney here. I knew what agency before you even said it. I felt exactly the way you did when I got there, but seriously, look at it as an opportunity. If you are smart, hard charging, and willing to work hard you can distinguish yourself and move up and around to more challenging positions with more impressive colleagues. All parts of the SEC are not equal. There are pockets where very smart people are doing high level work. It can take some effort to find them, but they're there.