Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been several journal articles recently about "Mecca vs. Medina Muslims." The argument goes that both peace and war can be found in the Quran. The first verses were dictated when Muhammad was in Mecca, his Muslim followers were a minority, and the approach was generally conciliatory. Later verses were dictated when Mohammad was in Medina, his forces were stronger, they were fighting the Qureshi and others, so the tone is more aggressive.

The point is that both facets are the "real" Islam. This is because both war and peace are found in the Quran.

A further point is that Muslims take the Quran literally, i.e. God dictated it directly to Mohammad via an angel. Thus, in theory, all passages have comparable validity.

(Atheist trolls/derailers please go away. The grownups are trying to talk.)

The point there is too that if you see Islam as a way of life, then you need to understand the orders and stories in its holy book in context. The guidance in the Quran is for specific instances. You can extrapolate those to apply to other parts of life, but you cannot ignore the context entirely. Hateful sociopaths can twist it to justify their cruel deeds. That does not mean that has anything to do with the actual meaning/purpose of the words.

You're responding to me (nice to have a person who actually wants to think and discuss!)

I wouldn't emphasize the order/context thing, because the warlike, so-called "Medina" type verses were revealed later in Mohammed's life. So by that analysis they'd supercede the earlier, more peaceful verses.

The point of the analysis I was quoting is that it's *all* Islam. The peaceful verses are there in the Quran, and they are God's own words, which means they should be taken literally. The warlike verses that others have pasted here are also in the Quran, and they are also God's own words, to be taken literally. Context can be helpful, for example knowing that such-and-such verse was revealed at the time the Muslims were fighting so-and-so. I personally admire the contextual approach as opening up the door for personal interpretation in a way that a literal "this is what the words say on their face" approach can never do. But at the end of the day, groups like ISIS are fine with stripping the 650 AD context and going with the idea that God's words, as they exist in the holy book, are eternal. Obviously ISIS emphasizes the violent verses and ignores the peaceful/compassionate ones.

Anonymous wrote:There have been several journal articles recently about "Mecca vs. Medina Muslims." The argument goes that both peace and war can be found in the Quran. The first verses were dictated when Muhammad was in Mecca, his Muslim followers were a minority, and the approach was generally conciliatory. Later verses were dictated when Mohammad was in Medina, his forces were stronger, they were fighting the Qureshi and others, so the tone is more aggressive.

The point is that both facets are the "real" Islam. This is because both war and peace are found in the Quran.

A further point is that Muslims take the Quran literally, i.e. God dictated it directly to Mohammad via an angel. Thus, in theory, all passages have comparable validity.

(Atheist trolls/derailers please go away. The grownups are trying to talk.)

from my understanding, the Quran calls for followers to essentially fight in his name. As it relates to the Bible, God stresses HE will take care of our enemies and issues. There is no call to arms like there is in the Quran.
I saw this as someone who actually does not believe that Muslims are violent. But book seems to leave that open to interpretation. The bible is very clear as to who is in control.

Anonymous wrote:There have been several journal articles recently about "Mecca vs. Medina Muslims." The argument goes that both peace and war can be found in the Quran. The first verses were dictated when Muhammad was in Mecca, his Muslim followers were a minority, and the approach was generally conciliatory. Later verses were dictated when Mohammad was in Medina, his forces were stronger, they were fighting the Qureshi and others, so the tone is more aggressive.

The point is that both facets are the "real" Islam. This is because both war and peace are found in the Quran.

A further point is that Muslims take the Quran literally, i.e. God dictated it directly to Mohammad via an angel. Thus, in theory, all passages have comparable validity.

(Atheist trolls/derailers please go away. The grownups are trying to talk.)

The point there is too that if you see Islam as a way of life, then you need to understand the orders and stories in its holy book in context. The guidance in the Quran is for specific instances. You can extrapolate those to apply to other parts of life, but you cannot ignore the context entirely. Hateful sociopaths can twist it to justify their cruel deeds. That does not mean that has anything to do with the actual meaning/purpose of the words.

Anonymous wrote:There have been several journal articles recently about "Mecca vs. Medina Muslims." The argument goes that both peace and war can be found in the Quran. The first verses were dictated when Muhammad was in Mecca, his Muslim followers were a minority, and the approach was generally conciliatory. Later verses were dictated when Mohammad was in Medina, his forces were stronger, they were fighting the Qureshi and others, so the tone is more aggressive.

The point is that both facets are the "real" Islam. This is because both war and peace are found in the Quran.

A further point is that Muslims take the Quran literally, i.e. God dictated it directly to Mohammad via an angel. Thus, in theory, all passages have comparable validity.

(Atheist trolls/derailers please go away. The grownups are trying to talk.)

Grownups don't believe in fairy tales.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a practicing Catholic who can imagine an 11th century Muslim resident of Jerusalem asking the same thing of Christians.

No religion has a monopoly on violent extremists. People of faith everywhere deal with the challenge of the lofty ideals of our beliefs vs. the reality of being morally weak humans in an imperfect, tempting world.

So you refer to the Crusades. And you STILL can't see that religion has been used to control since the beginning of time?

Someone said during yesterday's mass shooting that God protected her. So why didn't God protect the others? Does God just spin a wheel when making these decisions? toss a dice? pick names out of a hat?

In other words, why doesn't God do what *I* think is right? Wahh! Waaah!

God works in mysterious ways -- that's what believers need to keep in mind when these seemingly senseless things happen. There is a plan. We just don't understand it - and won't until we get to heaven -- if we believe. Otherwise we'll never know, plus we'll burn in hell for not believing.

See now you're just a god damn idiot if you can come here and say that shit right now.

There have been several journal articles recently about "Mecca vs. Medina Muslims." The argument goes that both peace and war can be found in the Quran. The first verses were dictated when Muhammad was in Mecca, his Muslim followers were a minority, and the approach was generally conciliatory. Later verses were dictated when Mohammad was in Medina, his forces were stronger, they were fighting the Qureshi and others, so the tone is more aggressive.

The point is that both facets are the "real" Islam. This is because both war and peace are found in the Quran.

A further point is that Muslims take the Quran literally, i.e. God dictated it directly to Mohammad via an angel. Thus, in theory, all passages have comparable validity.

(Atheist trolls/derailers please go away. The grownups are trying to talk.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God: kill your son
Abraham: uh...ok
God: holy shit I'm jk
Abraham: umm...
God: I'll probably kill mine tho lol
Abraham: wtf?

LOL!!

You just totally made my day. If you could do the whole bible, you'd be filthy rich!

This is so true. What an asinine story it is.

It is not ours to understand the mind of God. We are but to obey him.

Then why did god give me this questioning brain if not to use it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God: kill your son
Abraham: uh...ok
God: holy shit I'm jk
Abraham: umm...
God: I'll probably kill mine tho lol
Abraham: wtf?

LOL!!

You just totally made my day. If you could do the whole bible, you'd be filthy rich!

This is so true. What an asinine story it is.

It is not ours to understand the mind of God. We are but to obey him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God: kill your son
Abraham: uh...ok
God: holy shit I'm jk
Abraham: umm...
God: I'll probably kill mine tho lol
Abraham: wtf?

LOL!!

You just totally made my day. If you could do the whole bible, you'd be filthy rich!

This is so true. What an asinine story it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God: kill your son
Abraham: uh...ok
God: holy shit I'm jk
Abraham: umm...
God: I'll probably kill mine tho lol
Abraham: wtf?

LOL!!

You just totally made my day. If you could do the whole bible, you'd be filthy rich!

Anonymous wrote:God: kill your son
Abraham: uh...ok
God: holy shit I'm jk
Abraham: umm...
God: I'll probably kill mine tho lol
Abraham: wtf?

LOL!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a practicing Catholic who can imagine an 11th century Muslim resident of Jerusalem asking the same thing of Christians.

No religion has a monopoly on violent extremists. People of faith everywhere deal with the challenge of the lofty ideals of our beliefs vs. the reality of being morally weak humans in an imperfect, tempting world.

So you refer to the Crusades. And you STILL can't see that religion has been used to control since the beginning of time?

Someone said during yesterday's mass shooting that God protected her. So why didn't God protect the others? Does God just spin a wheel when making these decisions? toss a dice? pick names out of a hat?

In other words, why doesn't God do what *I* think is right? Wahh! Waaah!

God works in mysterious ways -- that's what believers need to keep in mind when these seemingly senseless things happen. There is a plan. We just don't understand it - and won't until we get to heaven -- if we believe. Otherwise we'll never know, plus we'll burn in hell for not believing.

This kind of "reasoning" is what allows people to kill in the name of God/Allah. God has a plan and our job is to.... believe in it or go to hell, kill on his behalf to make it to heaven, interpret it as we wish and condemn the rest for not doing the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a practicing Catholic who can imagine an 11th century Muslim resident of Jerusalem asking the same thing of Christians.

No religion has a monopoly on violent extremists. People of faith everywhere deal with the challenge of the lofty ideals of our beliefs vs. the reality of being morally weak humans in an imperfect, tempting world.

So you refer to the Crusades. And you STILL can't see that religion has been used to control since the beginning of time?

Someone said during yesterday's mass shooting that God protected her. So why didn't God protect the others? Does God just spin a wheel when making these decisions? toss a dice? pick names out of a hat?

In other words, why doesn't God do what *I* think is right? Wahh! Waaah!

God works in mysterious ways -- that's what believers need to keep in mind when these seemingly senseless things happen. There is a plan. We just don't understand it - and won't until we get to heaven -- if we believe. Otherwise we'll never know, plus we'll burn in hell for not believing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a practicing Catholic who can imagine an 11th century Muslim resident of Jerusalem asking the same thing of Christians.

No religion has a monopoly on violent extremists. People of faith everywhere deal with the challenge of the lofty ideals of our beliefs vs. the reality of being morally weak humans in an imperfect, tempting world.

So you refer to the Crusades. And you STILL can't see that religion has been used to control since the beginning of time?

Someone said during yesterday's mass shooting that God protected her. So why didn't God protect the others? Just God just spin a wheel when making these decisions? toss a dice? pick names out of a hat?

And I wouldn't be surprised if now she feels superior to the others and thinks that God has a special plan for her. Hopefully, her selfish reaction will be pointed out and discouraged by others who care about the woman and don't want her to make a fool of herself and alienate others who weren't protect by her god.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a practicing Catholic who can imagine an 11th century Muslim resident of Jerusalem asking the same thing of Christians.

No religion has a monopoly on violent extremists. People of faith everywhere deal with the challenge of the lofty ideals of our beliefs vs. the reality of being morally weak humans in an imperfect, tempting world.

So you refer to the Crusades. And you STILL can't see that religion has been used to control since the beginning of time?

Someone said during yesterday's mass shooting that God protected her. So why didn't God protect the others? Just God just spin a wheel when making these decisions? toss a dice? pick names out of a hat?

In other words, why doesn't God do what *I* think is right? Wahh! Waaah!