Anonymous wrote:Thoughts? If one party has an affair and the other party is hurt and angry over it and the hurt and anger eventually cause the breakup? Now it is just as much to do with the hurt party?

If only life were that cut and dry.

A divorce is caused you one or two people deciding they don't want to be married anymore and have the energy to file paperwork that says that.

I could divorce my husband because he is messy and I don't like it. I would say, I divorced my husband because he is messy. or because he had an affair. or because he is unimpressive at dinner. or he does not make enough money. or he has dementia and it will bankrupt my family. or he has bi-polar disorder.

Yet many people stay married under all those same conditions.


Ultimately the cause of divorce is one person deciding they don't want to be married to another person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like victim blaming to me. The person who had the affair created the problem. They get the blame.

What drove him/her to have an affair?

If it bad enough to for you to seek others, it is bad enough to get a divorce first.

And if it is bad enough to divorce first, aren't both parties to blame?

With this logic, a divorce that happens pre-affair would be both parties' fault, but a divorce that happened post-affair would be the cheating spouse's fault.

exactly, and the cheated-upon partner gets to be the saint in the whole mess.

people, treat your spouses right. it is very hard to undo what has already been done.

The cheated upon partner SHOULD be more respected in the whole mess. They handled the mess much better than the cheater.

Did they? If the cheated upon partner was mean, didn't contribute to the house and withheld sex, and the cheater was nice, paid the bills, did the cleaning, and took care of the kids, and banged a coworker on the side, the cheated upon should be more respected?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like victim blaming to me. The person who had the affair created the problem. They get the blame.

What drove him/her to have an affair?

If it bad enough to for you to seek others, it is bad enough to get a divorce first.

And if it is bad enough to divorce first, aren't both parties to blame?

With this logic, a divorce that happens pre-affair would be both parties' fault, but a divorce that happened post-affair would be the cheating spouse's fault.

Correct. Having an affair is a violation of the sanctity of marriage. The minute you take the steps to actually have the affair, you own the consequences.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like victim blaming to me. The person who had the affair created the problem. They get the blame.

What drove him/her to have an affair?

If it bad enough to for you to seek others, it is bad enough to get a divorce first.

And if it is bad enough to divorce first, aren't both parties to blame?

With this logic, a divorce that happens pre-affair would be both parties' fault, but a divorce that happened post-affair would be the cheating spouse's fault.

exactly, and the cheated-upon partner gets to be the saint in the whole mess.

people, treat your spouses right. it is very hard to undo what has already been done.

The cheated upon partner SHOULD be more respected in the whole mess. They handled the mess much better than the cheater.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts? If one party has an affair and the other party is hurt and angry over it and the hurt and anger eventually cause the breakup? Now it is just as much to do with the hurt party?

I think yes.

There were reasons there was an affair, usually. I would think that most people wouldn't have an affair if their marriage was going well. If things are humming along and everybody is happy ... nobody has an affair. (usually)

It might not be apparent at first glance, but I think there usually is a reason that that space was there that allowed the affair. I am not blaming the spouse who was cheated on. The affair isn't their fault. But the state of the marriage before the affair is. Even if they thought things were PERFECT

It seems to me that a lot of cheated upon wives act all surprised, as if their marriages were perfect, delicious, amazing, before they found their husband cheating. They are so surprised and profess they were the perfect, loving, giving wife. Their marriage was roses and petunias.

Maybe.

But maybe not. I'm not saying they deserve to be cheated upon. But something in the marriage was really fundamentally wrong. Sex. Communication. Long held hurts. The affair really is just a symptom. A really really painful symptom. But a symptom.

Statistically that is not correct. People in happy marriages report having affairs at the same rate as those in unhappy marriages.

You do realize that people who are happily married have affairs, right? or are you of the misconception that only people in unhappy marriages have affairs?

Why do happily married people have affairs? To fulfill some need that is missing in the marriage?

Again, excluding true sociopaths.

Some people like a little strange once in a while. It's got nothing to do with their spouses.

What drives someone to seek some strange when they've made a commitment to not seek strange?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts? If one party has an affair and the other party is hurt and angry over it and the hurt and anger eventually cause the breakup? Now it is just as much to do with the hurt party?

I think yes.

There were reasons there was an affair, usually. I would think that most people wouldn't have an affair if their marriage was going well. If things are humming along and everybody is happy ... nobody has an affair. (usually)

It might not be apparent at first glance, but I think there usually is a reason that that space was there that allowed the affair. I am not blaming the spouse who was cheated on. The affair isn't their fault. But the state of the marriage before the affair is. Even if they thought things were PERFECT

It seems to me that a lot of cheated upon wives act all surprised, as if their marriages were perfect, delicious, amazing, before they found their husband cheating. They are so surprised and profess they were the perfect, loving, giving wife. Their marriage was roses and petunias.

Maybe.

But maybe not. I'm not saying they deserve to be cheated upon. But something in the marriage was really fundamentally wrong. Sex. Communication. Long held hurts. The affair really is just a symptom. A really really painful symptom. But a symptom.

Statistically that is not correct. People in happy marriages report having affairs at the same rate as those in unhappy marriages.

You do realize that people who are happily married have affairs, right? or are you of the misconception that only people in unhappy marriages have affairs?

Why do happily married people have affairs? To fulfill some need that is missing in the marriage?

Again, excluding true sociopaths.

Some people like a little strange once in a while. It's got nothing to do with their spouses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts? If one party has an affair and the other party is hurt and angry over it and the hurt and anger eventually cause the breakup? Now it is just as much to do with the hurt party?

I think yes.

There were reasons there was an affair, usually. I would think that most people wouldn't have an affair if their marriage was going well. If things are humming along and everybody is happy ... nobody has an affair. (usually)

It might not be apparent at first glance, but I think there usually is a reason that that space was there that allowed the affair. I am not blaming the spouse who was cheated on. The affair isn't their fault. But the state of the marriage before the affair is. Even if they thought things were PERFECT

It seems to me that a lot of cheated upon wives act all surprised, as if their marriages were perfect, delicious, amazing, before they found their husband cheating. They are so surprised and profess they were the perfect, loving, giving wife. Their marriage was roses and petunias.

Maybe.

But maybe not. I'm not saying they deserve to be cheated upon. But something in the marriage was really fundamentally wrong. Sex. Communication. Long held hurts. The affair really is just a symptom. A really really painful symptom. But a symptom.

Statistically that is not correct. People in happy marriages report having affairs at the same rate as those in unhappy marriages.

You do realize that people who are happily married have affairs, right? or are you of the misconception that only people in unhappy marriages have affairs?

Why do happily married people have affairs? To fulfill some need that is missing in the marriage?

Again, excluding true sociopaths.

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts? If one party has an affair and the other party is hurt and angry over it and the hurt and anger eventually cause the breakup? Now it is just as much to do with the hurt party?

I find this logic so odd. Would you say, "If one spouse hit another, and the other party is hurt and angry over it, and the hurt and anger about being beaten eventually caused the breakup, is the breakup equally the hurt person's fault?"

When you put it like that, I think most people would agree -- the party who is beaten is not to blame if the marriage ends, neither to blame for causing the other spouse to dole out the beating and nor to blame for reacting to being beaten by terminating the marriage. All of the blame in the situation is on the person who decided to use his/her fists to solve a problem.

If you try to distinguish the situations (abuse and adultery) by saying that being the victim of adultery is not as bad as being beaten, then I would say that you know nothing about the dynamic of abuse whether it's physical or emotional.

The top of your post asks a larger question than just adultery, "is it fair to say that both parties are to blame in the demise of a marriage? I would say an emphatic NO. There are many situations in which one partner is solely responsible -- adultery, abuse (emotional or physical) or addiction are just a few examples. These behaviors are so dysfunctional, that no spouse should be expected to tolerate them in a marriage. It is not my responsibility as a spouse to "get over" the pain of these behaviors and learn to live with them. That is asking me to put myself in an extremely unhealthy, unsafe, damaging environment (not to mention the impact on the kids.)

Just like we expect spouses in a marriage to solve problems with their words and not fists, so it is right and fair to expect other marital or personal problems to be solved with words (like "I want a divorce" or "I think we need therapy") instead of 3rd party penises (or vaginas).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts? If one party has an affair and the other party is hurt and angry over it and the hurt and anger eventually cause the breakup? Now it is just as much to do with the hurt party?

I think yes.

There were reasons there was an affair, usually. I would think that most people wouldn't have an affair if their marriage was going well. If things are humming along and everybody is happy ... nobody has an affair. (usually)

It might not be apparent at first glance, but I think there usually is a reason that that space was there that allowed the affair. I am not blaming the spouse who was cheated on. The affair isn't their fault. But the state of the marriage before the affair is. Even if they thought things were PERFECT

It seems to me that a lot of cheated upon wives act all surprised, as if their marriages were perfect, delicious, amazing, before they found their husband cheating. They are so surprised and profess they were the perfect, loving, giving wife. Their marriage was roses and petunias.

Maybe.

But maybe not. I'm not saying they deserve to be cheated upon. But something in the marriage was really fundamentally wrong. Sex. Communication. Long held hurts. The affair really is just a symptom. A really really painful symptom. But a symptom.

Statistically that is not correct. People in happy marriages report having affairs at the same rate as those in unhappy marriages.

You do realize that people who are happily married have affairs, right? or are you of the misconception that only people in unhappy marriages have affairs?

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts? If one party has an affair and the other party is hurt and angry over it and the hurt and anger eventually cause the breakup? Now it is just as much to do with the hurt party?

I think yes.

There were reasons there was an affair, usually. I would think that most people wouldn't have an affair if their marriage was going well. If things are humming along and everybody is happy ... nobody has an affair. (usually)

It might not be apparent at first glance, but I think there usually is a reason that that space was there that allowed the affair. I am not blaming the spouse who was cheated on. The affair isn't their fault. But the state of the marriage before the affair is. Even if they thought things were PERFECT

It seems to me that a lot of cheated upon wives act all surprised, as if their marriages were perfect, delicious, amazing, before they found their husband cheating. They are so surprised and profess they were the perfect, loving, giving wife. Their marriage was roses and petunias.

Maybe.

But maybe not. I'm not saying they deserve to be cheated upon. But something in the marriage was really fundamentally wrong. Sex. Communication. Long held hurts. The affair really is just a symptom. A really really painful symptom. But a symptom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like victim blaming to me. The person who had the affair created the problem. They get the blame.

What drove him/her to have an affair?

If it bad enough to for you to seek others, it is bad enough to get a divorce first.

And if it is bad enough to divorce first, aren't both parties to blame?

With this logic, a divorce that happens pre-affair would be both parties' fault, but a divorce that happened post-affair would be the cheating spouse's fault.

exactly, and the cheated-upon partner gets to be the saint in the whole mess.

people, treat your spouses right. it is very hard to undo what has already been done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like victim blaming to me. The person who had the affair created the problem. They get the blame.

What drove him/her to have an affair?

If it bad enough to for you to seek others, it is bad enough to get a divorce first.

And if it is bad enough to divorce first, aren't both parties to blame?

With this logic, a divorce that happens pre-affair would be both parties' fault, but a divorce that happened post-affair would be the cheating spouse's fault.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like victim blaming to me. The person who had the affair created the problem. They get the blame.

What drove him/her to have an affair?

If it bad enough to for you to seek others, it is bad enough to get a divorce first.

And if it is bad enough to divorce first, aren't both parties to blame?

Anonymous wrote:I actually disagree vehemently with this trope - and I'm in a fairly happy marriage. But many break-ups I've observed, there is one partner in the "wrong" - or at least who believes their needs outshadow those of his/her partner and family. Sure both partners may be less than perfect and act selfishly, but so often one partner is "blamed" for simply not reacting to or handling the hurtful actions of another "properly."

Right, because they are both acting selfishly, they both bear some responsibility for the marriage's demise. Only the cheater bears responsibility for the cheating. But most of the time the cheated-upon took part in getting marriage to the point where the cheater decided to cheat.

"Most of the time" excludes true sociopaths.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That sounds like victim blaming to me. The person who had the affair created the problem. They get the blame.

What drove him/her to have an affair?

Nope.

Having an affair is a behavior choice. Plenty of people in shitty marriages make different choices. Your marriage can be shitty in ways that both spouses contribute to before the affair, but afterward, there are few things that would trump "affair" in the list of ways a marriage was wrecked. The person who had the affair is 100% responsible for that behavior. It doesn't matter if your spouse refuses sex forever. Like PP said, if it's bad enough to cheat, it's bad enough to divorce first.