Anonymous wrote:Yes, exactly. You will be surprised and a little bit hurt to find out that a few of your kids' friends are trying to peel off for private school in fourth, and then a big chunk will leave for Latin and Basis, if they can, in fifth. Maybe a few more lottery out or move for sixth, and all of a sudden your original cohort is much smaller and a bunch of new students are coming in. It's not always a bad thing, of course, but you need to be realistic that the people with the most options are nearly always going to be trying to position themselves well for the future.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several people have mentioned that they liked a charter for early grades, then decided they needed something different thereafter. Can anyone elaborate on that? TIA.

--clueless toddler mom

There's a lot that people will tolerate in lower grades, especially when it's PS/PK/K. We want to see our children enjoying school, learning the alphabet, making friends, learning the rudiments of math, etc. And, the kids who tend to act out are only 3/4/5 years-old. No-one's worried yet.

When your 1st or 2nd grader comes home having learned new vocabulary on the playground, of which you don't approve, that can give you cause for pause. Similarly, reports of bullying behavior arising in 3rd may be more than you expected, and it can take the glow off the rose. What will really let you down, is when you're pushing for advanced instruction in, say math, by 5th, because you know your child can handle the work and the school is indifferent. They've got standardized tests to worry about in the higher grades. Your proficient/advanced child is NOT going to be a priority - because they are desperately trying to haul the below basic and basic kids up over the line. That line, after all, is what they will be judged on and compensated for within the DCPS system. And all of your good will in the world won't make up for it.

So, sure they want you around - they want to court you and help you find friends and build the school's reputation. That's what gets the higher SES and more motivated families to stay in the system. And, life being what it is (unfair) it's those kids who will help them get the scores they need to move on to the next stage of their promotion ladder.

PP from above: this applies in general across elementary schools, and as specifically to many DCPS as to many charters.

Anonymous wrote:The problem all of these (K-8) plans run into is that parents with kids in 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd grade really, really want their elementary school to continue. They're very happy with the school and advocate with the administration to make it last. Then, by about 3rd or 4th grade, their child is different, their needs are different, and the family makes very different reflections about school. Often, they start looking for something bigger, something with more options, more extra-curriculars, with with more emphasis on selection, honors, rigor. It's hard for administrations to push back and also economically attractive not to because it's comparatively cheaper to run a middle school than an elementary school. So there are some economies of scale to be gained. But inevitably, the middle school will serve quite a different set of students, no worse, no better necessarily, but different. For the rest of the lot, it puts another "option" on the map and thereby adds another way by which we can shuffle our kids around into seemingly acceptable but - in sum - altogether suboptimal solutions. So, yes, good luck with that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem all of these (K-8) plans run into is that parents with kids in 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd grade really, really want their elementary school to continue. They're very happy with the school and advocate with the administration to make it last. Then, by about 3rd or 4th grade, their child is different, their needs are different, and the family makes very different reflections about school. Often, they start looking for something bigger, something with more options, more extra-curriculars, with with more emphasis on selection, honors, rigor. It's hard for administrations to push back and also economically attractive not to because it's comparatively cheaper to run a middle school than an elementary school. So there are some economies of scale to be gained. But inevitably, the middle school will serve quite a different set of students, no worse, no better necessarily, but different. For the rest of the lot, it puts another "option" on the map and thereby adds another way by which we can shuffle our kids around into seemingly acceptable but - in sum - altogether suboptimal solutions. So, yes, good luck with that.

Yes, this is very well stated. We are a Lee family who has no interest in a middle school option at Lee. I think the need in DC is for good middle-to-high school options, not elementary-to-middle. (We will try for Latin when the time comes but are planning on private for middle and high school if we are still in the area.)

Amen. Very well put PP. We feel the same at ITS. Even though I am impressed with what they have done in few short years building a small middle school (and we LOVE the school), I think my DC's needs have changed in 3rd grade.

Not everyone feels this way. I do NOT want a big middle school for my kids (I went to one - it was lord of the flies). So there just has to be enough families liek me who want a small middle school experience, and, with the lack of ms options in dc, it looks like some creative minds, it, lee families who don't feel like me may end up having to staying put (and perhaps loving it). The pk-8 model is very popular in progressive dc private schools, so I don't know why it wouldn't work in progressive charters.

But the progressive charters have an individualized instruction model, way beyond differentiation. The small scale and individuated instruction (rather than all desk face the teacher model) means they, like charters themselves, are a different ballgame than dcps educational campuses. And they are self selecting. You aren't going to get all high ses, but you'll get quite a few and the low ses will not tend to be at risk (those parents tend to go IB) or kids with discipline problems (those parents make different choices - if my kid was a discipline problem I'd want more not less structure). This all spells success. Not a lot of extra curriculars, that is true, but I can get my kid those and I didn't do any of those in middle school (lived too far from school, both parents worked, went home on bus and watched sitcom reruns for three years).



Because private schools can pick their students and charters can't. You will have to open the gates to the hoi polloi, and believe me that if they'll commute all the way to Deal, they will certainly commute to CM. Then you'll have a school that's too small to offer differentiated classes (i.e., different math options) and has to navigate integrating everyone into the same room. Capital Hill Day School has a method to keep your "undesirables" out, CM does not.

But the progressive charters have an individualized instruction model, way beyond differentiation. The small scale and individuated instruction (rather than all desk face the teacher model) means they, like charters themselves, are a different ballgame than dcps educational campuses. And they are self selecting. You aren't going to get ALL high ses, but you'll get quite a few/way more than educational campuses and the low ses will not tend to be at risk (those parents tend to go IB) or kids with discipline problems (those parents make different choices - if my kid was a discipline problem I'd want more not less structure). This all spells success. Not a lot of extra curriculars, that is true, but I can get my kid those and I didn't do any of those in middle school (lived too far from school, both parents worked, went home on bus and watched sitcom reruns for three years). (reposted to fix quoting)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several people have mentioned that they liked a charter for early grades, then decided they needed something different thereafter. Can anyone elaborate on that? TIA.

--clueless toddler mom

There's a lot that people will tolerate in lower grades, especially when it's PS/PK/K. We want to see our children enjoying school, learning the alphabet, making friends, learning the rudiments of math, etc. And, the kids who tend to act out are only 3/4/5 years-old. No-one's worried yet.

When your 1st or 2nd grader comes home having learned new vocabulary on the playground, of which you don't approve, that can give you cause for pause. Similarly, reports of bullying behavior arising in 3rd may be more than you expected, and it can take the glow off the rose. What will really let you down, is when you're pushing for advanced instruction in, say math, by 5th, because you know your child can handle the work and the school is indifferent. They've got standardized tests to worry about in the higher grades. Your proficient/advanced child is NOT going to be a priority - because they are desperately trying to haul the below basic and basic kids up over the line. That line, after all, is what they will be judged on and compensated for within the DCPS system. And all of your good will in the world won't make up for it.

So, sure they want you around - they want to court you and help you find friends and build the school's reputation. That's what gets the higher SES and more motivated families to stay in the system. And, life being what it is (unfair) it's those kids who will help them get the scores they need to move on to the next stage of their promotion ladder.

Anonymous wrote:Several people have mentioned that they liked a charter for early grades, then decided they needed something different thereafter. Can anyone elaborate on that? TIA.

--clueless toddler mom

Anonymous wrote:Several people have mentioned that they liked a charter for early grades, then decided they needed something different thereafter. Can anyone elaborate on that? TIA.

--clueless toddler mom

Anonymous wrote:Several people have mentioned that they liked a charter for early grades, then decided they needed something different thereafter. Can anyone elaborate on that? TIA.

--clueless toddler mom

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem all of these (K-8) plans run into is that parents with kids in 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd grade really, really want their elementary school to continue. They're very happy with the school and advocate with the administration to make it last. Then, by about 3rd or 4th grade, their child is different, their needs are different, and the family makes very different reflections about school. Often, they start looking for something bigger, something with more options, more extra-curriculars, with with more emphasis on selection, honors, rigor. It's hard for administrations to push back and also economically attractive not to because it's comparatively cheaper to run a middle school than an elementary school. So there are some economies of scale to be gained. But inevitably, the middle school will serve quite a different set of students, no worse, no better necessarily, but different. For the rest of the lot, it puts another "option" on the map and thereby adds another way by which we can shuffle our kids around into seemingly acceptable but - in sum - altogether suboptimal solutions. So, yes, good luck with that.

Yes, this is very well stated. We are a Lee family who has no interest in a middle school option at Lee. I think the need in DC is for good middle-to-high school options, not elementary-to-middle. (We will try for Latin when the time comes but are planning on private for middle and high school if we are still in the area.)

Amen. Very well put PP. We feel the same at ITS. Even though I am impressed with what they have done in few short years building a small middle school (and we LOVE the school), I think my DC's needs have changed in 3rd grade.

Not everyone feels this way. I do NOT want a big middle school for my kids (I went to one - it was lord of the flies). So there just has to be enough families liek me who want a small middle school experience, and, with the lack of ms options in dc, it looks like some creative minds, it, lee families who don't feel like me may end up having to staying put (and perhaps loving it). The pk-8 model is very popular in progressive dc private schools, so I don't know why it wouldn't work in progressive charters.

But the progressive charters have an individualized instruction model, way beyond differentiation. The small scale and individuated instruction (rather than all desk face the teacher model) means they, like charters themselves, are a different ballgame than dcps educational campuses. And they are self selecting. You aren't going to get all high ses, but you'll get quite a few and the low ses will not tend to be at risk (those parents tend to go IB) or kids with discipline problems (those parents make different choices - if my kid was a discipline problem I'd want more not less structure). This all spells success. Not a lot of extra curriculars, that is true, but I can get my kid those and I didn't do any of those in middle school (lived too far from school, both parents worked, went home on bus and watched sitcom reruns for three years).



Because private schools can pick their students and charters can't. You will have to open the gates to the hoi polloi, and believe me that if they'll commute all the way to Deal, they will certainly commute to CM. Then you'll have a school that's too small to offer differentiated classes (i.e., different math options) and has to navigate integrating everyone into the same room. Capital Hill Day School has a method to keep your "undesirables" out, CM does not.

But the progressive charters have an individualized instruction model, way beyond differentiation. The small scale and individuated instruction (rather than all desk face the teacher model) means they, like charters themselves, are a different ballgame than dcps educational campuses. And they are self selecting. You aren't going to get ALL high ses, but you'll get quite a few/way more than educational campuses and the low ses will not tend to be at risk (those parents tend to go IB) or kids with discipline problems (those parents make different choices - if my kid was a discipline problem I'd want more not less structure). This all spells success. Not a lot of extra curriculars, that is true, but I can get my kid those and I didn't do any of those in middle school (lived too far from school, both parents worked, went home on bus and watched sitcom reruns for three years). (reposted to fix quoting)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem all of these (K-8) plans run into is that parents with kids in 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd grade really, really want their elementary school to continue. They're very happy with the school and advocate with the administration to make it last. Then, by about 3rd or 4th grade, their child is different, their needs are different, and the family makes very different reflections about school. Often, they start looking for something bigger, something with more options, more extra-curriculars, with with more emphasis on selection, honors, rigor. It's hard for administrations to push back and also economically attractive not to because it's comparatively cheaper to run a middle school than an elementary school. So there are some economies of scale to be gained. But inevitably, the middle school will serve quite a different set of students, no worse, no better necessarily, but different. For the rest of the lot, it puts another "option" on the map and thereby adds another way by which we can shuffle our kids around into seemingly acceptable but - in sum - altogether suboptimal solutions. So, yes, good luck with that.

Yes, this is very well stated. We are a Lee family who has no interest in a middle school option at Lee. I think the need in DC is for good middle-to-high school options, not elementary-to-middle. (We will try for Latin when the time comes but are planning on private for middle and high school if we are still in the area.)

Amen. Very well put PP. We feel the same at ITS. Even though I am impressed with what they have done in few short years building a small middle school (and we LOVE the school), I think my DC's needs have changed in 3rd grade.

Not everyone feels this way. I do NOT want a big middle school for my kids (I went to one - it was lord of the flies). So there just has to be enough families liek me who want a small middle school experience, and, with the lack of ms options in dc, it looks like some creative minds, it, lee families who don't feel like me may end up having to staying put (and perhaps loving it). The pk-8 model is very popular in progressive dc private schools, so I don't know why it wouldn't work in progressive charters.

But the progressive charters have an individualized instruction model, way beyond differentiation. The small scale and individuated instruction (rather than all desk face the teacher model) means they, like charters themselves, are a different ballgame than dcps educational campuses. And they are self selecting. You aren't going to get all high ses, but you'll get quite a few and the low ses will not tend to be at risk (those parents tend to go IB) or kids with discipline problems (those parents make different choices - if my kid was a discipline problem I'd want more not less structure). This all spells success. Not a lot of extra curriculars, that is true, but I can get my kid those and I didn't do any of those in middle school (lived too far from school, both parents worked, went home on bus and watched sitcom reruns for three years).



Because private schools can pick their students and charters can't. You will have to open the gates to the hoi polloi, and believe me that if they'll commute all the way to Deal, they will certainly commute to CM. Then you'll have a school that's too small to offer differentiated classes (i.e., different math options) and has to navigate integrating everyone into the same room. Capital Hill Day School has a method to keep your "undesirables" out, CM does not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem all of these (K-8) plans run into is that parents with kids in 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd grade really, really want their elementary school to continue. They're very happy with the school and advocate with the administration to make it last. Then, by about 3rd or 4th grade, their child is different, their needs are different, and the family makes very different reflections about school. Often, they start looking for something bigger, something with more options, more extra-curriculars, with with more emphasis on selection, honors, rigor. It's hard for administrations to push back and also economically attractive not to because it's comparatively cheaper to run a middle school than an elementary school. So there are some economies of scale to be gained. But inevitably, the middle school will serve quite a different set of students, no worse, no better necessarily, but different. For the rest of the lot, it puts another "option" on the map and thereby adds another way by which we can shuffle our kids around into seemingly acceptable but - in sum - altogether suboptimal solutions. So, yes, good luck with that.

Yes, this is very well stated. We are a Lee family who has no interest in a middle school option at Lee. I think the need in DC is for good middle-to-high school options, not elementary-to-middle. (We will try for Latin when the time comes but are planning on private for middle and high school if we are still in the area.)

Amen. Very well put PP. We feel the same at ITS. Even though I am impressed with what they have done in few short years building a small middle school (and we LOVE the school), I think my DC's needs have changed in 3rd grade.

Not everyone feels this way. I do NOT want a big middle school for my kids (I went to one - it was lord of the flies). So there just has to be enough families liek me who want a small middle school experience, and, with the lack of ms options in dc, it looks like some creative minds, it, lee families who don't feel like me may end up having to staying put (and perhaps loving it). The pk-8 model is very popular in progressive dc private schools, so I don't know why it wouldn't work in progressive charters.

But the progressive charters have an individualized instruction model, way beyond differentiation. The small scale and individuated instruction (rather than all desk face the teacher model) means they, like charters themselves, are a different ballgame than dcps educational campuses. And they are self selecting. You aren't going to get all high ses, but you'll get quite a few and the low ses will not tend to be at risk (those parents tend to go IB) or kids with discipline problems (those parents make different choices - if my kid was a discipline problem I'd want more not less structure). This all spells success. Not a lot of extra curriculars, that is true, but I can get my kid those and I didn't do any of those in middle school (lived too far from school, both parents worked, went home on bus and watched sitcom reruns for three years).



Because private schools can pick their students and charters can't. You will have to open the gates to the hoi polloi, and believe me that if they'll commute all the way to Deal, they will certainly commute to CM. Then you'll have a school that's too small to offer differentiated classes (i.e., different math options) and has to navigate integrating everyone into the same room. Capital Hill Day School has a method to keep your "undesirables" out, CM does not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem all of these (K-8) plans run into is that parents with kids in 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd grade really, really want their elementary school to continue. They're very happy with the school and advocate with the administration to make it last. Then, by about 3rd or 4th grade, their child is different, their needs are different, and the family makes very different reflections about school. Often, they start looking for something bigger, something with more options, more extra-curriculars, with with more emphasis on selection, honors, rigor. It's hard for administrations to push back and also economically attractive not to because it's comparatively cheaper to run a middle school than an elementary school. So there are some economies of scale to be gained. But inevitably, the middle school will serve quite a different set of students, no worse, no better necessarily, but different. For the rest of the lot, it puts another "option" on the map and thereby adds another way by which we can shuffle our kids around into seemingly acceptable but - in sum - altogether suboptimal solutions. So, yes, good luck with that.

Yes, this is very well stated. We are a Lee family who has no interest in a middle school option at Lee. I think the need in DC is for good middle-to-high school options, not elementary-to-middle. (We will try for Latin when the time comes but are planning on private for middle and high school if we are still in the area.)

Amen. Very well put PP. We feel the same at ITS. Even though I am impressed with what they have done in few short years building a small middle school (and we LOVE the school), I think my DC's needs have changed in 3rd grade.

Not everyone feels this way. I do NOT want a big middle school for my kids (I went to one - it was lord of the flies). So there just has to be enough families liek me who want a small middle school experience, and, with the lack of ms options in dc, it looks like some creative minds, it, lee families who don't feel like me may end up having to staying put (and perhaps loving it). The pk-8 model is very popular in progressive dc private schools, so I don't know why it wouldn't work in progressive charters.