Everyone knows Yale is weird:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it is about respect. These kids may be smart on paper, but they never learned how to express their opinions respectfully and effectively. I guess this is why students feel a need for "safe spaces" on campus. Debate and disagreement is no longer civil. I do not think that female student is a poster child for free speech.

I guess every generation has kids that "never learned how to express their opinions respectfully and effectively..." The college kids who screamed and yelled obscenities because they didn't agree with policy. Where? University of Alabama. 50 years ago when George Wallace blocked the entrance to admit African Americans.

PP, those Alabama kids weren't poster children for free speech either. Every, single generation has kids that weren't "civil." Every. Single. One.

I agree that it is about respect. These kids may be smart on paper, but they never learned how to express their opinions respectfully and effectively. I guess this is why students feel a need for "safe spaces" on campus. Debate and disagreement is no longer civil. I do not think that female student is a poster child for free speech.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, there's obviously the possibility of establishing a hierarchy of values in which freedom of expression is not the highest. But then OP would have to explain why showing respect for authority/decorum trumps free speech while creating a racially inclusive environment does not.

It's quite clear that the Yale professors and administrators are working hard to create a racially inclusive environment and one in which both freedom of speech and freedom of expression are honored, and that some of the minority students are trying to prohibit and sanction conduct they choose to deem offensive.

If there are adults in charge at Yale, they have a right and responsibility to educate, which includes removing from campus those students who scream obscenities at professors who, quite frankly, have expressed entirely reasonable points of view, lest the school just become a PC joke where no one is allowed on campus who expresses any point of view that some 18 year old minority student decides makes her feel "uncomfortable."

Would you think an 18-year old Jewish student, or any age affiliated with the university, would feel uncomfortable or scared with seeing Nazi flags flown or someone dressed as Hitler? Or is the unreasonableness reserved for certain 18 year old minority students?

Honestly, college is a time when people should be able to push the boundaries of acceptable speech, even if it means doing stupid, dumb and embarrassing things. I would err on the side of free speech.

One can see how this thing can go too far. I imagine someone criticising affirmative action would make certain student "uncomfortable" but that is certainly a public policy issue worthy of debate.

There is big difference between debating affirmative action and wearing offensive clothing. And while the debate is worthy on both sides, there are times right in this forum where it has become extremely divisive, nasty, and denigrating to minorities. But carry on with your criticizing just remembering ALL who have benefitted from affirmative action. Remembering only a select group is pure hipocracy.

Anonymous wrote:Whatever happened to respect?

Exactly. And they should know how to spell it.

"R-E-S-P-E-C-T."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, there's obviously the possibility of establishing a hierarchy of values in which freedom of expression is not the highest. But then OP would have to explain why showing respect for authority/decorum trumps free speech while creating a racially inclusive environment does not.

It's quite clear that the Yale professors and administrators are working hard to create a racially inclusive environment and one in which both freedom of speech and freedom of expression are honored, and that some of the minority students are trying to prohibit and sanction conduct they choose to deem offensive.

If there are adults in charge at Yale, they have a right and responsibility to educate, which includes removing from campus those students who scream obscenities at professors who, quite frankly, have expressed entirely reasonable points of view, lest the school just become a PC joke where no one is allowed on campus who expresses any point of view that some 18 year old minority student decides makes her feel "uncomfortable."

Would you think an 18-year old Jewish student, or any age affiliated with the university, would feel uncomfortable or scared with seeing Nazi flags flown or someone dressed as Hitler? Or is the unreasonableness reserved for certain 18 year old minority students?

Honestly, college is a time when people should be able to push the boundaries of acceptable speech, even if it means doing stupid, dumb and embarrassing things. I would err on the side of free speech.

One can see how this thing can go too far. I imagine someone criticising affirmative action would make certain student "uncomfortable" but that is certainly a public policy issue worthy of debate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gotta a love a post that supports free speech by urging the expulsion of students who exercise it!

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That was my thought as well.

Really? You'd have to be pretty stupid not to know that these students attempt to chill free speech with loud voices and obscene language. They have no interest in exchanging ideas, only yelling at professors who don't do enough to make them feel like Yale is a "safe place" where no one will upset them by expressing themselves in "inappropriate" ways.

The girl was yelling "shut up." She wasn't interested in an open exchange of ideas, free speech or even respect. She was entirely out of line.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, there's obviously the possibility of establishing a hierarchy of values in which freedom of expression is not the highest. But then OP would have to explain why showing respect for authority/decorum trumps free speech while creating a racially inclusive environment does not.

It's quite clear that the Yale professors and administrators are working hard to create a racially inclusive environment and one in which both freedom of speech and freedom of expression are honored, and that some of the minority students are trying to prohibit and sanction conduct they choose to deem offensive.

If there are adults in charge at Yale, they have a right and responsibility to educate, which includes removing from campus those students who scream obscenities at professors who, quite frankly, have expressed entirely reasonable points of view, lest the school just become a PC joke where no one is allowed on campus who expresses any point of view that some 18 year old minority student decides makes her feel "uncomfortable."

Would you think an 18-year old Jewish student, or any age affiliated with the university, would feel uncomfortable or scared with seeing Nazi flags flown or someone dressed as Hitler? Or is the unreasonableness reserved for certain 18 year old minority students?

Anonymous wrote:No, there's obviously the possibility of establishing a hierarchy of values in which freedom of expression is not the highest. But then OP would have to explain why showing respect for authority/decorum trumps free speech while creating a racially inclusive environment does not.

It's quite clear that the Yale professors and administrators are working hard to create a racially inclusive environment and one in which both freedom of speech and freedom of expression are honored, and that some of the minority students are trying to prohibit and sanction conduct they choose to deem offensive.

If there are adults in charge at Yale, they have a right and responsibility to educate, which includes removing from campus those students who scream obscenities at professors who, quite frankly, have expressed entirely reasonable points of view, lest the school just become a PC joke where no one is allowed on campus who expresses any point of view that some 18 year old minority student decides makes her feel "uncomfortable."

No, there's obviously the possibility of establishing a hierarchy of values in which freedom of expression is not the highest. But then OP would have to explain why showing respect for authority/decorum trumps free speech while creating a racially inclusive environment does not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gotta a love a post that supports free speech by urging the expulsion of students who exercise it!

Nice deflection.

Not a deflection at all. Just pointing out that the premise here is that students should be severely punished for swearing at authority figures while racist speech/expression must be protected. I can understand a categorical stance in favor of free speech, but this isn't it.

So the choice is between allowing absolute freedom of all forms of expression, or allowing only acceptable thoughts and expressions? There is no middle ground that doesnt prescribe draconian prescriptions on halloween costumes, but doesnt allow students to scream abuse at professors?

Anonymous wrote:I probably should've read what happened before posting but I personally draw the line at any costume, college patty or not, whose purpose is to denigrate especially blackface.

PP here. I read the article, and I think there is merit on both sides. College campuses should be a safe haven AND an intellectual have. And no, I'm not running for public office.

However, just as there is a line drawn in the sand for free speech yelling fire in a crowded theatre, there is room on campuses for dissent. No black person wants to see anyone walking around in blackface. It is frightening to many and reminiscent of past uncivil and dangerous situations. One needn't carry out the actions to instill fear and anger. It ranks right of there with a noose in a tree as Duke can testify.

I could give less than a damn that some frat of belching, vomiting Bros decided the treat of the night was going to be blondes. My understanding is the frat was off campus and a private party. Private or not, I would think Yale would want to protect its reputation that it does not condone the moronic actions of a ship of fools. However, it's a private house.

That said, on campus is a different venue. This young woman was emotionally upset (and before you vilify this woman, there is a political candidate 3x the age of that young woman who has problems controlling his mouth). I am not condoning her verbal actions if profanity, but I definitely understand though it could have been expressed differently. Time will mature her but hoping she keeps the passion to speak up when she sees a wrong.

Finally, it's sometimes difficult to distinguish between what's PC and what is downright offense and mean spirited which is an internal problem.

My intention was not to turn my thoughts into a political discussion (there's another forum for that) but to remember that campuses are a place for discussion, dissent, intellectual haven, and, yes, should be a safe haven for it all.

That's my 2 cents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever happened to respect?

It's reserved for those who deserve/earn it.

That's right. Liberals deserve it, conservatives don't. Get with the program, comrade.

Anonymous wrote:Whatever happened to respect?

It's reserved for those who deserve/earn it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gotta a love a post that supports free speech by urging the expulsion of students who exercise it!

.
That was my thought as well.

Really? You'd have to be pretty stupid not to know that these students attempt to chill free speech with loud voices and obscene language. They have no interest in exchanging ideas, only yelling at professors who don't do enough to make them feel like Yale is a "safe place" where no one will upset them by expressing themselves in "inappropriate" ways.