Anonymous
11/06/2015 11:25
Subject: Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Much as there's men who expect sex all the damn time, there's women who expect more romance than a typical guy with an 8-5 job, a commute, and young kids can realistically provide.
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:35
Subject: Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Anonymous wrote:DW: Sex and romance are two very distinct things. Both are essential needs to keep a marriage alive and affair-free.
Yes, OP, you prepared for the date and DH acted like a teen guy on prom night -- threw on an outfit and prepared to show up where he was told. That's how many men are: clueless to romance.
So yes, it's unfair, but it looks like you're going to have to make reservations and plan the evening's events completely yourself. Unless, of course, you show him this thread and he gets the message that he better book a nice restaurant and at least put on a clean new suit for an evening out and buy some $10 roses at Safeway for you on date nights.
The bright side: you choose the restaurant: you decide whether its Rasika or El Jaleo. You choose the theatre, whether it's Shakespeare, Woolly Mammoth or just Regal Cinema. You set the romantic course of the evening: Faust or Swan Lake. You get the events you like.
Who knows? Maybe he'll never catch on, but if you do this a few times, maybe he'll decide that if he wants to "Star Wars" instead of "Steve Jobs," then he better learn to book reservations or buy a ticket. Not as romantic but still an evening out.
Here's a suggestion: call him today to meet for coffee or a lunch together. No recriminations. Just enjoying each other in the outdoors before the winter makes that impossible. Remember why you love each other and had two beautiful children.
OK, so date night was no thrill but the thrill is not gone. It's inside of both of you somewhere, just buried under diapers and sleep deprivation. And no fair that you still have to do all the romantic heavy lifting (along with many and varied sexual positions) to keep the marriage alive.
Just remember that he's tired too and deep down he loves you very much. I can tell even from your post.
Yes, he does.
Good luck and don't give up yet.
You are wonderful. I wish we were friends. Thank you!
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:32
Subject: Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Had another fight last night (ongoing cycle) with DH about lack of romance/spark in our relationship. He comes on to me for sex after 5-7 days of minimal conversation, affection, lack of affectionate texts/notes, gifts, minimal help with house maintenance. I recoil and reject him, "Really?! You hardly make an effort with me all week then you expect me to be in the mood?!". We spend a precious kid free hour talking about how I wish things were better/more romantic (He's fine with status quo, states he is "very happy" with me) until we're both exhausted and nothing is resolved. We wake up, pretend like things are normal, and go on with life. Maybe he will be a little bit more romantic for the next few days, but we tend to repeat this cycle about once a month. (Its unrelated to my PMS, fyi).
Some of this stems from a botched date night last weekend that he was supposed to plan but didn't. I arranged sitter, cleaned house, prepared kids, dressed nicely did hair and makeup, sexy underthings for later. He came home from work, changed into something unattractive, and said "Where do you want to go?" after I had already asked him to make plans for the date night activities. No reservations, no special ideas. I was disappointed but didn't want to ruin evening by bringing it up (it came up later).
I truly find this so exhausting and wonder if my expectations for our marriage at this point is out of whack. Our kids are under age 4. He works full time in a professional role (about 50 hours a week). I don't have role models of a healthy adult relationship so need to outsource this. Should I just stop expecting and wanting more from him and try to make peace with lack of romance and attention from him right now?
Thanks!
To me, your expectations are out of whack a little--I mean, it sucks that DH didn't plan the date night, but with a four year old and a baby, DH and I are just glad to sneak out for lunch together. Nothing fancy because so much of our money goes to daycare now, but just glad to have time together. We like each other.
You talk about a week of minimal conversation, affection--DH and I can't tell each other everything we'd like to in a week right now. Sometimes we just exchange a look and a smile and say "I see you over there!" and that's our connection for the evening until we get to bed. It is what it is.
The difference I see is that DH and I both know we're doing the best we can, both agree to be keeping expectations low, and know that it will get better in time. Nothing's "perfect" right now. We're just glad to be covering the basics and anything beyond that is great!
OP- this is great advice. Thank you so much!
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:30
Subject: Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are you never just horny OP? Why do you associate sex with so many bells and whistles? Perhaps that is your problem. You expect sex to be some kind of barter game which you both trade favors, him affection, chores, etc and you sex.
Me? I get horny, I see a penis (DH's), I fuck. Simple. Sex is not something you do for someone, at least I don't think it should be
guy here.
i read this and thought the same thing. there seems to be this pattern with people in this forum associating helping out around the house as the turn on to getting sex. i mean if i see my wife cleaning up the house, i dont get horny and i doubt she gets all hot and bothered by me doing the dishes.
now the texts, flirting, cute notes are things that can help you see your husband as lusting for you. i get that. the he doesnt help around the house and expects sex is something ive never understood in here.
It is the NORM for women to want intimacy BEFORE sex in order to want sex. You and the PP are asking the OP to be more like a man and that is probably not going to happen. Men gain intimacy FROM the sex and women need to feel the intimacy first. This is one of the main reasons married people stop having sex. Because they have differing needs. Men need to learn that if they work on intimacy, they are going to get a lot more sex.
OP, you are not wrong. Your husband needs to step it up. You need to have a serious talk with him about this. You are trying to meet his needs and he is not trying to meet yours. It goes both ways.
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:29
Subject: Re:Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
here's an idea.
have sex first. Then in post coital period, bring up how you wish there was more romance, etc. Not in a judgmental way, just in a 'wish we were more intimate both in and out of bed in our marriage. I've been feeling overwhelmed and under appreciated, how about you?"
we have 2 young kids, been married the same amount of time, and we both feel, for different reasons, unappreciated. Then we realize that we are not doingn a good job of showing appreciation. For DH, its paying more attention to the home, helping out, planning stuff. For me, its just noticing DH more and thanking him more (yes, annoying that I thank him for doing all the things that he never thanks me for doing, but you know what--its his love language. Mine is actually just him doing it!)>
have sex first. Then in post coital period, bring up how you wish there was more romance, etc. Not in a judgmental way, just in a 'wish we were more intimate both in and out of bed in our marriage. I've been feeling overwhelmed and under appreciated, how about you?"
we have 2 young kids, been married the same amount of time, and we both feel, for different reasons, unappreciated. Then we realize that we are not doingn a good job of showing appreciation. For DH, its paying more attention to the home, helping out, planning stuff. For me, its just noticing DH more and thanking him more (yes, annoying that I thank him for doing all the things that he never thanks me for doing, but you know what--its his love language. Mine is actually just him doing it!)>
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:24
Subject: Re:Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Anonymous wrote:Ugh women.
Sex is a way to bond with your man. Nothing brings the two of you together more than sex, literally, a person inside of you. Stop making sex a test for men. It shouldnt be a battle. It shouldnt be a chore. A man shouldnt have to spend a week of gearing women up for sex with compliments, flowers, date night, etc.
-a woman
Ugh judgments.
Sex is one way to bond with your spouse. There are a lot of things that bring the two of you together, including, literally, a person inside of you. Stop making sex the only way to bond. It shouldn't be the only thing. It shouldn't be an obligation. A man should be interested and engaged with his wife throughout the week, not just as a lead up to sex.
-another woman.
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:24
Subject: Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are you never just horny OP? Why do you associate sex with so many bells and whistles? Perhaps that is your problem. You expect sex to be some kind of barter game which you both trade favors, him affection, chores, etc and you sex.
Me? I get horny, I see a penis (DH's), I fuck. Simple. Sex is not something you do for someone, at least I don't think it should be
guy here.
i read this and thought the same thing. there seems to be this pattern with people in this forum associating helping out around the house as the turn on to getting sex. i mean if i see my wife cleaning up the house, i dont get horny and i doubt she gets all hot and bothered by me doing the dishes.
now the texts, flirting, cute notes are things that can help you see your husband as lusting for you. i get that. the he doesnt help around the house and expects sex is something ive never understood in here.
You don't get why repeatedly and unfairly making someone do more than their share of the work would make them mad and exhausted and not feel like having sex? It's not that housework is erotic or a quid pro quo. It's that is can be hard to feel intimate with someone who repeatedly hurts you.
How do we know she is doing more than her fair share?? Is she a SAH? If so then why isn't she doing most of the domestic work, assuming her husband is working outside the home. I never understand why women don't view work outside the home as work that contributes to the family. They are so blind to the fact the 50% includes the whole pie not just the part they see.
I am taking her at face value that the division of labor is unfair, because that is demonstrably true for so many women. But interesting that you just decide not to listen to a woman. Hmmm.
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:22
Subject: Re:Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Anonymous wrote:Ugh women.
Sex is a way to bond with your man. Nothing brings the two of you together more than sex, literally, a person inside of you. Stop making sex a test for men. It shouldnt be a battle. It shouldnt be a chore. A man shouldnt have to spend a week of gearing women up for sex with compliments, flowers, date night, etc.
-a woman
Your internalized misogyny is showing!
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:22
Subject: Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
DW: Sex and romance are two very distinct things. Both are essential needs to keep a marriage alive and affair-free.
Yes, OP, you prepared for the date and DH acted like a teen guy on prom night -- threw on an outfit and prepared to show up where he was told. That's how many men are: clueless to romance.
So yes, it's unfair, but it looks like you're going to have to make reservations and plan the evening's events completely yourself. Unless, of course, you show him this thread and he gets the message that he better book a nice restaurant and at least put on a clean new suit for an evening out and buy some $10 roses at Safeway for you on date nights.
The bright side: you choose the restaurant: you decide whether its Rasika or El Jaleo. You choose the theatre, whether it's Shakespeare, Woolly Mammoth or just Regal Cinema. You set the romantic course of the evening: Faust or Swan Lake. You get the events you like.
Who knows? Maybe he'll never catch on, but if you do this a few times, maybe he'll decide that if he wants to "Star Wars" instead of "Steve Jobs," then he better learn to book reservations or buy a ticket. Not as romantic but still an evening out.
Here's a suggestion: call him today to meet for coffee or a lunch together. No recriminations. Just enjoying each other in the outdoors before the winter makes that impossible. Remember why you love each other and had two beautiful children.
OK, so date night was no thrill but the thrill is not gone. It's inside of both of you somewhere, just buried under diapers and sleep deprivation. And no fair that you still have to do all the romantic heavy lifting (along with many and varied sexual positions) to keep the marriage alive.
Just remember that he's tired too and deep down he loves you very much. I can tell even from your post.
Yes, he does.
Good luck and don't give up yet.
Yes, OP, you prepared for the date and DH acted like a teen guy on prom night -- threw on an outfit and prepared to show up where he was told. That's how many men are: clueless to romance.
So yes, it's unfair, but it looks like you're going to have to make reservations and plan the evening's events completely yourself. Unless, of course, you show him this thread and he gets the message that he better book a nice restaurant and at least put on a clean new suit for an evening out and buy some $10 roses at Safeway for you on date nights.
The bright side: you choose the restaurant: you decide whether its Rasika or El Jaleo. You choose the theatre, whether it's Shakespeare, Woolly Mammoth or just Regal Cinema. You set the romantic course of the evening: Faust or Swan Lake. You get the events you like.
Who knows? Maybe he'll never catch on, but if you do this a few times, maybe he'll decide that if he wants to "Star Wars" instead of "Steve Jobs," then he better learn to book reservations or buy a ticket. Not as romantic but still an evening out.
Here's a suggestion: call him today to meet for coffee or a lunch together. No recriminations. Just enjoying each other in the outdoors before the winter makes that impossible. Remember why you love each other and had two beautiful children.
OK, so date night was no thrill but the thrill is not gone. It's inside of both of you somewhere, just buried under diapers and sleep deprivation. And no fair that you still have to do all the romantic heavy lifting (along with many and varied sexual positions) to keep the marriage alive.
Just remember that he's tired too and deep down he loves you very much. I can tell even from your post.
Yes, he does.
Good luck and don't give up yet.
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:22
Subject: Re:Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
So this is typical but not good. You can not fly on autopilot for long.
You need to decide what is important to you and state them clearly.
Our marriage counselor has us go on a date once a month all day long. Then it's not all get dressed up and expect magic. It's more like, go for a hike, come home, get some coffee at a cafe, catch a movie, get a nice dinner (not fancy)... like we did when we were first dating. We didn't do fancy things when we dated.
That is 12 dates (which usually ends up being 8... Xmas/Th giving/spring break/vacation months excluded)
It's nice to just spend time together.
You need to decide what is important to you and state them clearly.
Our marriage counselor has us go on a date once a month all day long. Then it's not all get dressed up and expect magic. It's more like, go for a hike, come home, get some coffee at a cafe, catch a movie, get a nice dinner (not fancy)... like we did when we were first dating. We didn't do fancy things when we dated.
That is 12 dates (which usually ends up being 8... Xmas/Th giving/spring break/vacation months excluded)
It's nice to just spend time together.
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:18
Subject: Re:Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Based on this is your side of what's going on I read it like he can be an unappreciative insensitive jerk, and you are too. You're not communicating well, seems to be a listening problem. And then there's the classic, he may already be "not that into you" possibility... and you're loosing the hots for him too.
If you are going to be talking yourselves, do it every other day and listen. After that, I think you could do with couple counselling.
- a man
If you are going to be talking yourselves, do it every other day and listen. After that, I think you could do with couple counselling.
- a man
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:18
Subject: Re:Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Anonymous wrote:Ugh women.
Sex is a way to bond with your man. Nothing brings the two of you together more than sex, literally, a person inside of you. Stop making sex a test for men. It shouldnt be a battle. It shouldnt be a chore. A man shouldnt have to spend a week of gearing women up for sex with compliments, flowers, date night, etc.
-a woman
She bangs him 3 times a week. She just wants him to be nice.
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:13
Subject: Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
OP, to answer your question, yes, this is what marriage is usually like after 8 years and with two small kids. HOWEVER. It does not have to be that way.
To me what stuck out from your post was that you were disappointed "but I didn't want to ruin everything by bringing it up."
Sorry, but you have to bring this stuff up as it occurs. Do not let it fester. If your DH says "where do you want to go" you should say, in a not mean way, "Hey, I ASKED you to make plans. The fact that you did not do so makes me feel very ignored and unappreciated. I'm going to go redo my lipstick and you have 5 minutes to come up with something. And is that what you are going to wear? I dressed up!"
What is wrong with just saying that? How does that "ruin it" more than falsely pretending you are not hurt and having it all come out later in no sex and a big heavy discussion. I think men respond better to immediate straightforward feedback, in a nice way, than big stressful "talks" that make them feel like they are just screwing up all the time and you are saying nothing and disliking them secretly. Imagine how stressful that would be, to constantly be worried that your spouse is unhappy but pretending so as not to "ruin it."
I don't know how you were raised but if you think the right thing to do is stifle yourself and not bother other people, think again. Your spouse is not a mind reader. Just tell him how you feel. And that is not the same as stuffing it inside and then later having big awful talks. Tell him how you feel immediately so that he has a chance to make it right, right away.
To me what stuck out from your post was that you were disappointed "but I didn't want to ruin everything by bringing it up."
Sorry, but you have to bring this stuff up as it occurs. Do not let it fester. If your DH says "where do you want to go" you should say, in a not mean way, "Hey, I ASKED you to make plans. The fact that you did not do so makes me feel very ignored and unappreciated. I'm going to go redo my lipstick and you have 5 minutes to come up with something. And is that what you are going to wear? I dressed up!"
What is wrong with just saying that? How does that "ruin it" more than falsely pretending you are not hurt and having it all come out later in no sex and a big heavy discussion. I think men respond better to immediate straightforward feedback, in a nice way, than big stressful "talks" that make them feel like they are just screwing up all the time and you are saying nothing and disliking them secretly. Imagine how stressful that would be, to constantly be worried that your spouse is unhappy but pretending so as not to "ruin it."
I don't know how you were raised but if you think the right thing to do is stifle yourself and not bother other people, think again. Your spouse is not a mind reader. Just tell him how you feel. And that is not the same as stuffing it inside and then later having big awful talks. Tell him how you feel immediately so that he has a chance to make it right, right away.
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:10
Subject: Re:Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Ugh women.
Sex is a way to bond with your man. Nothing brings the two of you together more than sex, literally, a person inside of you. Stop making sex a test for men. It shouldnt be a battle. It shouldnt be a chore. A man shouldnt have to spend a week of gearing women up for sex with compliments, flowers, date night, etc.
-a woman
Sex is a way to bond with your man. Nothing brings the two of you together more than sex, literally, a person inside of you. Stop making sex a test for men. It shouldnt be a battle. It shouldnt be a chore. A man shouldnt have to spend a week of gearing women up for sex with compliments, flowers, date night, etc.
-a woman
Anonymous
11/06/2015 09:08
Subject: Is this marriage after 8 years and 2 kids?
Anonymous wrote:Had another fight last night (ongoing cycle) with DH about lack of romance/spark in our relationship. He comes on to me for sex after 5-7 days of minimal conversation, affection, lack of affectionate texts/notes, gifts, minimal help with house maintenance. I recoil and reject him, "Really?! You hardly make an effort with me all week then you expect me to be in the mood?!". We spend a precious kid free hour talking about how I wish things were better/more romantic (He's fine with status quo, states he is "very happy" with me) until we're both exhausted and nothing is resolved. We wake up, pretend like things are normal, and go on with life. Maybe he will be a little bit more romantic for the next few days, but we tend to repeat this cycle about once a month. (Its unrelated to my PMS, fyi).
Some of this stems from a botched date night last weekend that he was supposed to plan but didn't. I arranged sitter, cleaned house, prepared kids, dressed nicely did hair and makeup, sexy underthings for later. He came home from work, changed into something unattractive, and said "Where do you want to go?" after I had already asked him to make plans for the date night activities. No reservations, no special ideas. I was disappointed but didn't want to ruin evening by bringing it up (it came up later).
I truly find this so exhausting and wonder if my expectations for our marriage at this point is out of whack. Our kids are under age 4. He works full time in a professional role (about 50 hours a week). I don't have role models of a healthy adult relationship so need to outsource this. Should I just stop expecting and wanting more from him and try to make peace with lack of romance and attention from him right now?
Thanks!
To me, your expectations are out of whack a little--I mean, it sucks that DH didn't plan the date night, but with a four year old and a baby, DH and I are just glad to sneak out for lunch together. Nothing fancy because so much of our money goes to daycare now, but just glad to have time together. We like each other.
You talk about a week of minimal conversation, affection--DH and I can't tell each other everything we'd like to in a week right now. Sometimes we just exchange a look and a smile and say "I see you over there!" and that's our connection for the evening until we get to bed. It is what it is.
The difference I see is that DH and I both know we're doing the best we can, both agree to be keeping expectations low, and know that it will get better in time. Nothing's "perfect" right now. We're just glad to be covering the basics and anything beyond that is great!