Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to be assertive in ways that will hurt people you love. And most of the people who post here love their troublesome family member or the things they do wouldn't hurt them. You come across as someone who has never had to seriously deal with emotional fallout from telling a loved one you're not speaking to them, cutting them off, etc. Actually your advice is just a cudgel. It doesn't consider the nuance of family relationships- "speaking up" to a sister might mean losing contact with nieces and nephews. It has to be juggled carefully. You think if people don't go in scorched earth they're doormats. They're not always. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

+1000

+2000

She sounds like the person who says "I don't get it! Why don't junkies just PUT the needle down? Why don't drunks wake up one day and stop drinking? Why can't my kid with a learning disability just BE different?"

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to be assertive in ways that will hurt people you love. And most of the people who post here love their troublesome family member or the things they do wouldn't hurt them. You come across as someone who has never had to seriously deal with emotional fallout from telling a loved one you're not speaking to them, cutting them off, etc. Actually your advice is just a cudgel. It doesn't consider the nuance of family relationships- "speaking up" to a sister might mean losing contact with nieces and nephews. It has to be juggled carefully. You think if people don't go in scorched earth they're doormats. They're not always. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to be assertive in ways that will hurt people you love. And most of the people who post here love their troublesome family member or the things they do wouldn't hurt them. You come across as someone who has never had to seriously deal with emotional fallout from telling a loved one you're not speaking to them, cutting them off, etc. Actually your advice is just a cudgel. It doesn't consider the nuance of family relationships- "speaking up" to a sister might mean losing contact with nieces and nephews. It has to be juggled carefully. You think if people don't go in scorched earth they're doormats. They're not always. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

The emotional issue is yours because you are afraid of the idea that someone won't like you. I did have to be very blunt with my sister and yes I lost contact with my nieces for years. But it was my sister's choice to isolate her children. I didn't ask her to do so nor force her to. It was sad for both myself and my kids but it was my sister's choice. During that time, i continued to send cards and small gifts for holidays because of course i still loved and cared about them. When my oldest niece moved away for college, she reached out to me and we do have a relationship now. Not so much with my sister but truth be told as I got older and the years passed, it just didn't matter to me as much as it once did that my sister and I didn't have a close relationship any more. My mom tried the guilt trip thing for at least 2 years with me but I kept repeating " it's really sad that Larla choose to isolate herself and her kids from family events isn't it?" I literally repeated this so much during one conversation that my mom told me to shut up and it told her no, that was the only answer to her guilt trip she would get and I was serious. I repeated the same to any relatives that asked as well.

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to be assertive in ways that will hurt people you love. And most of the people who post here love their troublesome family member or the things they do wouldn't hurt them. You come across as someone who has never had to seriously deal with emotional fallout from telling a loved one you're not speaking to them, cutting them off, etc. Actually your advice is just a cudgel. It doesn't consider the nuance of family relationships- "speaking up" to a sister might mean losing contact with nieces and nephews. It has to be juggled carefully. You think if people don't go in scorched earth they're doormats. They're not always. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

Not OP, but he or she is right. You have to realize it's not about you. You make your decisions and boundaries, and work with reasonable people when possible/as appropriate. But participating in a toxic relationship makes you toxic--and part of the problem.

It's hard to be assertive in ways that will hurt people you love. And most of the people who post here love their troublesome family member or the things they do wouldn't hurt them. You come across as someone who has never had to seriously deal with emotional fallout from telling a loved one you're not speaking to them, cutting them off, etc. Actually your advice is just a cudgel. It doesn't consider the nuance of family relationships- "speaking up" to a sister might mean losing contact with nieces and nephews. It has to be juggled carefully. You think if people don't go in scorched earth they're doormats. They're not always. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

Anonymous wrote:Clearly this poster has never dealt with borderline mentally ill people who insist on dramatizing everything.

In other words, what you think of as rationally and firmly telling MIL you'd like her to call before coming by and seeing if it is convenient, she will take as "they don't love me and they don't want me in their lives and first they'll ask me to call and then they'll move with no forwarding address . . " and this will be reported to your other similarly insane relatives who will then attempt to organize an intervention with you because you're "thinking of disowning your MIL" or some such thing.

Rational behavior and speaking up only works if the people you are dealing with are similarly rational. That's a big, big assumption.

Exactly.

This is why wise people do nothing except disengage gradually. Much less conflict that way.

OP i agree with you. People need to be more assertive.

Anonymous wrote:Clearly this poster has never dealt with borderline mentally ill people who insist on dramatizing everything.

In other words, what you think of as rationally and firmly telling MIL you'd like her to call before coming by and seeing if it is convenient, she will take as "they don't love me and they don't want me in their lives and first they'll ask me to call and then they'll move with no forwarding address . . " and this will be reported to your other similarly insane relatives who will then attempt to organize an intervention with you because you're "thinking of disowning your MIL" or some such thing.

Rational behavior and speaking up only works if the people you are dealing with are similarly rational. That's a big, big assumption.

And you don't participate or speak to them about the issue. Really, it is that simple.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, this is a place where people seek advice. Speak up is not advice. It is a directive, and perhaps a starting point, but it is not advice. Family situations are complex. Often people need help determining language to use -- even people who are not doormats.

And frankly, Sherman Tanks like you often need the most advice because they have no idea other people have feelings.

+10000

OP, if you are an only child, be grateful and shut it.

Oh great, the "shut it" poster is back.

Yay! Annoying eye-rolly poster is here, too!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, this is a place where people seek advice. Speak up is not advice. It is a directive, and perhaps a starting point, but it is not advice. Family situations are complex. Often people need help determining language to use -- even people who are not doormats.

And frankly, Sherman Tanks like you often need the most advice because they have no idea other people have feelings.

+10000

OP, if you are an only child, be grateful and shut it.

Oh great, the "shut it" poster is back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clearly this poster has never dealt with borderline mentally ill people who insist on dramatizing everything.

In other words, what you think of as rationally and firmly telling MIL you'd like her to call before coming by and seeing if it is convenient, she will take as "they don't love me and they don't want me in their lives and first they'll ask me to call and then they'll move with no forwarding address . . " and this will be reported to your other similarly insane relatives who will then attempt to organize an intervention with you because you're "thinking of disowning your MIL" or some such thing.

Rational behavior and speaking up only works if the people you are dealing with are similarly rational. That's a big, big assumption.

Sounds like you've met my mother. Speaking up makes things worse and her dramatic tales seem to have convinced relatives that I am the crazy over-sensitive one. The worst incident occurred when I was 13, and told her that I was overcoming some childhood issues that had caused me a lot of angst (not caused by her) and wish that I'd had therapy as a child to help me cope. An hour later my grandmother and dad confronted me, saying my mom was in tears because I'd told her she was a terrible mother. As an adult, I am assertive with rational people, but have finally learned (after many other incidents) that speaking up to my mom only makes the situation worse.

At least you recognize that this is your choice and a dynamic you are choosing to participate in...

Anonymous wrote:Clearly this poster has never dealt with borderline mentally ill people who insist on dramatizing everything.

In other words, what you think of as rationally and firmly telling MIL you'd like her to call before coming by and seeing if it is convenient, she will take as "they don't love me and they don't want me in their lives and first they'll ask me to call and then they'll move with no forwarding address . . " and this will be reported to your other similarly insane relatives who will then attempt to organize an intervention with you because you're "thinking of disowning your MIL" or some such thing.

Rational behavior and speaking up only works if the people you are dealing with are similarly rational. That's a big, big assumption.

Sounds like you've met my mother. Speaking up makes things worse and her dramatic tales seem to have convinced relatives that I am the crazy over-sensitive one. The worst incident occurred when I was 13, and told her that I was overcoming some childhood issues that had caused me a lot of angst (not caused by her) and wish that I'd had therapy as a child to help me cope. An hour later my grandmother and dad confronted me, saying my mom was in tears because I'd told her she was a terrible mother. As an adult, I am assertive with rational people, but have finally learned (after many other incidents) that speaking up to my mom only makes the situation worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Calling another woman doormat and saying they deserve that treatment is a total hateful cunt move IMHO.

I don't use the c word very often but when I do, OP deserves it.

Look up the word in the dictionary. Why would you assume this was posted only for women?

Telling that PP assumes both OP and other posters are women...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/doormat

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OPs theory.

People will only continue to treat you they way you let them. You either have to accept it (that doesn't mean like it but sometimes that is what has to be done) or make is clear what you will & won't tolerate and stand by it.

Either way, stop whining about it.

Yup

Anonymous wrote:Calling another woman doormat and saying they deserve that treatment is a total hateful cunt move IMHO.

I don't use the c word very often but when I do, OP deserves it.

Look up the word in the dictionary. Why would you assume this was posted only for women?